ls1_chevelle

iTrader: (9)

http://www.kfor.com/Global/story.asp?s=3390503

If it is legit...and the cost was decent. I wonder if it would allow stock parts to take more power/boost.

-Matt

Grimes

iTrader: (3)

If done correctly, cryo treatment does help. But for the cost to cryo all your stock stuff, you could probably switch to forged, lol.

chris.shea

try a search there was a write up some where on this site not too long ago.

chpmnsws6

iTrader: (70)

cryo is good stuff if you have the loot to lay down for it..... thinking about doing it to the t-56 case and internals when i go proshifted

stik6shift93

How does cryoing increase gas mileage from 50 miles a gallon to 120 miles a gallon??????

Bill's 02 Z-28 SS

LSONE

iTrader: (1)

thats honestly one of the worst articles i think i've ever read...

i'm sure he was the first peoson to ever do this

great observation chief, he's a smart guy.

Grimes

iTrader: (3)

it would help strength, but 100% gas mileage increase or probably any measurable one would be bs

gollum

iTrader: (1)

It works on new brake rotors. Prevents warping.

v8-7

My rotary engine,, back when my Rx7 was powered by that hunk of ****, was cryoed. Didnt help much. Some people swear by it,,, i swore at it!

chpmnsws6

iTrader: (70)

he's trying to sell..... if someone believes it and sends there stuff in then he did what he wanted to do

PREDATOR-Z

You can cryogenically treat the whole thing. Block, rings, rods, crank etc...
If you are going max effort or FI, it would be worth it, otherwise, overkill.

What cryo does is change Austenite (carbon particles) into Marsenite, which then makes the alloy extra strong.
One tip though, if you decide on something like that, make sure you file fit your rings before you treat them, otherwise it is a PIA afterwards.
No coating to wear off, no gimmick, just taking the alloy to another level.

I've done it on a 900 hp RB26 setup for boost and also for tranny parts. It works but doesn't make anything indestructible.

Old SStroker

Well, sorta. Austenite (which is a solid solution of carbon and iron) and martensite refer only to steel. If you are talking about hardened steel, there is a % of the austenite which doesn't get transformed into martensite when the steel is quenched. The % varies quite a bit depending on the steel and the process.

Sub-zero (cryogenic) treatment will convert some or nearly all of the retained austenite to martensite. In most of the steels used in automobiles, there is a low % of retained austenite, so the sub-zero treatment doesn't change the hardness, and therefore the strength a lot. We see a point or two of Rockwell C Scale hardness change on high carbon steels.

What it helps is preventing growth of a close tolerance part as the retained austenite changes to martensite slowly over the lifetime of the part. This would be critical in carbonitrided parts because most of the retained austenite is near the surface. Fortunately, these type of parts like piston pins are ground after heat treating so this "bad" layer is removed. Some high end aftermarket pins are sub-zero treated during their heat treating prior to final grinding.

Heat treatment (either hot or cold) of metals is a very complex subject. It's way more involved than we can get into on a board like this one.

Sub-zero treating has different effects on nonferrous (other than iron and steel) materials. Treating all metals to the same cryo treatment is more than likely not the correct thing to do.

Stroker McGurk once said. "If it don't go, chrome it." If he were still spouting his wisdom today he might say, "If it breaks, cryo it."


IMO, the jury is still out on the advisability of cryo-treating finished parts.

PREDATOR-Z

What do you mean a board like this one?? Then what are you doing here Einstein?

Old SStroker

I get to laugh a lot at some of the posts.

Since you asked:

When I read misleading or incorrect information on some of the hard sciences, I may post another view. There are other boards on which more in-depth discussions of metallurgy, heat treatment or fluid dynamics, for example, would be tolerated or enjoyed by many of the members. My observation is this board may not be "geeky" enough. That's not a criticism, just an observation. As I said, this board can be entertaining, and sometimes technically enlightening.

As far as the compliment, Albert was my Physics professor. He wold appreciate it. That was quite a while ago, of course. See my siggy.

strokedls1

iTrader: (1)

Good discussion. I took a materials engineering class and did a lab with acid etching and heat treating. You are right that different steels carry much different propreties. I cryo treated all the metal parts in my tranny and nitried and cryoed my crank. I believe in over kill. lol

gwj

I know nothing of cryo treating. At a former job I used to make alloys in an arc furnace and heat treat them at different temps/times in a tube furnace. It's amazing how you can change the properties of metals this way. Fortunately we had an SEM with all it's capabilities to view materials. This was in the rechargeable battery industry. (NiMH).

Warbird

My entire longblock was cryoed and there is a difference in rigidity and strength. When the block was decked after the process it was much harder to cut than a normal block.

The theory behind cryoing is when frozen at extreme temerature the density of the structure of the block increases hence it's strength. The process also stress relieves everything. The claim is anywhere from 13-25% increase in overall strength on an aluminum block.

Old SStroker

Density is pounds per cubic inch, and if density increases with cryo treating, either the block got a lot heavier (pounds) or it got a lot smaller (cubic inches). Which occurred?

13-25% increase is truly amazing without actually changing the grade or type of material. Doesn't that sound a little too good to be true? Perhaps it is?

Of course if one pays good $ for the process, one must believe that the money is buying what you think it is.