Wet vs. Dry: Effectivnes?
06-07-2005, 09:59 AM
#1
Wet vs. Dry: Effectivnes? Assuming you have the same car and are running the same sized 'shot', is there any real output difference between a dry shot and a wet shot? I recall some time ago hearing the N2O people say that a dry kit will hit harder but doesn't produce the power higher in the rpm as a wet kit. Does this hold true to the LS1?
06-07-2005, 10:55 AM
#2
Generally the wet is considered to hit harder. This is because of the lean spike/torque spike coming on at once. Lean spike is because of n2o getting to clyinders quicker than fuel, lean is mean, but not good for engine longevity. Now dry can have a spike also but not as severe, or duration, that is why it seems to some that wet hits harder. Wet or dry same amount of n2o and same a/f you'll make about the same hp. Now there are ways to get rid of the nasty lean spike if interested.
06-07-2005, 11:08 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by Robert56
Generally the wet is considered to hit harder. This is because of the lean spike/torque spike coming on at once. Lean spike is because of n2o getting to clyinders quicker than fuel, lean is mean, but not good for engine longevity. Now dry can have a spike also but not as severe, or duration, that is why it seems to some that wet hits harder. Wet or dry same amount of n2o and same a/f you'll make about the same hp. Now there are ways to get rid of the nasty lean spike if interested.
06-07-2005, 11:32 AM
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Wet a kit will deliver more HP/torque for the same nitrous jet used. The reason is the fuel is atomized, lean spikes are nothing more than fuel pressure being deverted from your fuel injector for a breaf moment while your fuel lines are being filled and the nitrous filling its line just a nats *** faster. Does not hurt anything thou. Dry kits are ok but will not delivery the performance of a wet kit. Atomize fuel is the ticket. Think of like mixing two colors of paint. The nitrous is White and the fuel is black. Now through them into a bucket ( cylinder ) you will have white and black and very little grey. The grey is the mixing of the two.
Now a wet kit will slam the white into the black (at the Nozzle) and then through that into the bucket ( cylinder ) with the fuel from your injectors, you will have a much larger amount of grey, meaning a better mixture, and a better bang, that is were the power comes from the mixing or atomizing the fuel.
I do not have a problem with dry kits they have there place in the world, its call second. just kidding you got to laugh at that one. lol
Ricky
Now a wet kit will slam the white into the black (at the Nozzle) and then through that into the bucket ( cylinder ) with the fuel from your injectors, you will have a much larger amount of grey, meaning a better mixture, and a better bang, that is were the power comes from the mixing or atomizing the fuel.
I do not have a problem with dry kits they have there place in the world, its call second. just kidding you got to laugh at that one. lol
Ricky
06-07-2005, 11:40 AM
#6
Originally Posted by N20LT4Bird
Ive noticed this on my dyno sheets.......I go lean 13-14:1 for a split second and then pig rich (for safety) 11:1, for the reaminder of the time on the button. Is there anything else to do for this besides postioning the nitrous solenoid further away from the T.B. then the fuel solenoid?
Dave
06-07-2005, 11:40 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by NXRICKY
Atomize fuel is the ticket. Think of like mixing two colors of paint. The nitrous is White and the fuel is black. Now through them into a bucket ( cylinder ) you will have white and black and very little grey. The grey is the mixing of the two.
Now a wet kit will slam the white into the black (at the Nozzle) and then through that into the bucket ( cylinder ) with the fuel from your injectors, you will have a much larger amount of grey, meaning a better mixture, and a better bang, that is were the power comes from the mixing or atomizing the fuel.
Ricky
Now a wet kit will slam the white into the black (at the Nozzle) and then through that into the bucket ( cylinder ) with the fuel from your injectors, you will have a much larger amount of grey, meaning a better mixture, and a better bang, that is were the power comes from the mixing or atomizing the fuel.
Ricky
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06-07-2005, 11:53 AM
#8
Ok, I've got a scenrio for ya. Take a wet kit and and add a digi timer to the n2o side and tune it so you eliminate the lean spike (like it should be imo) and then see if it really hits harder. Something flowing at 1050psi and at 58psi which is going to reach the cylinder first? If your fuel system can't keep up, adding to the allready going to be there lean spike, you'll need to upgrade pump or system. Now on atomizing the fuel, this needs to be done well yes, so the fuel will be carried through the long runners without dropping. On dry the fuel is being atomized at the injector and added progressively as needed to maintain proper a/f at all times. If you really want to eliminate the lean spike issue go direct port wet with short hoses, right?
Ricky, you could be like the "Nitrous Court Jester".
Ricky, you could be like the "Nitrous Court Jester".
06-07-2005, 12:00 PM
#9
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Rober one FPSS and relay is all that is need to side step the nitrous coming on before the fuel. The fuel coming in progressively is another reason a wet kit kicksass. Power torque, now.
On to delivery times.
1050psi does move faster than 58psi you win.
But nitrous at the point of noid opening is not a liquid it is a gas,
the fuel remains in liquid state, so the travel time is not as far a part as some think.
I direct port kit without a standalone fuel cell still lean spike and sometime like a mother!!!
And fianlly I thought you would appreiate the joke. But the court jester, come on, more like the judge.
Ricky
On to delivery times.
1050psi does move faster than 58psi you win.
But nitrous at the point of noid opening is not a liquid it is a gas,
the fuel remains in liquid state, so the travel time is not as far a part as some think.
I direct port kit without a standalone fuel cell still lean spike and sometime like a mother!!!
And fianlly I thought you would appreiate the joke. But the court jester, come on, more like the judge.
Ricky
Originally Posted by Robert56
Ok, I've got a scenrio for ya. Take a wet kit and and add a digi timer to the n2o side and tune it so you eliminate the lean spike (like it should be imo) and then see if it really hits harder. Something flowing at 1050psi and at 58psi which is going to reach the cylinder first? If your fuel system can't keep up, adding to the allready going to be there lean spike, you'll need to upgrade pump or system. Now on atomizing the fuel, this needs to be done well yes, so the fuel will be carried through the long runners without dropping. On dry the fuel is being atomized at the injector and added progressively as needed to maintain proper a/f at all times. If you really want to eliminate the lean spike issue go direct port wet with short hoses, right?
Ricky, you could be like the "Nitrous Court Jester".
Ricky, you could be like the "Nitrous Court Jester".
06-07-2005, 12:04 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet
We have tuned many nitrous cars.. Occasionally we will get a car with a small lean spike.Most cars do not. In most cercumstances its because the car needs a fuel pump.The stock fuel pump can not stay caught up with the sudden needed extra fuel. If it is not the pump and you have a small lean spike all you have to do is use a little longer nitrous line going to the nozzle.
Dave
Dave
06-07-2005, 12:05 PM
#11
Robert,
Remember fuel does not drop out of the nitrous stream.Its impossible if the car is tuned right and using a good nozzle.
As far as lean spikes yes on some applications you may see a lean spike.Yes you can take that out with wiring or a londer nitrous line to the nozzle.But a lean spike is not why a wet kit makes more torque.Most of the systems I have tuned did not even have a lean spike...
I know you are a dry kit guy.Thats fine.I see nothing wrong with them.But all your post always kinda seem against wet kits.I know you run a dry kit and have some experience with them but how much experience do you have with a good quality wet system.Not that NOS Junk.
Is most of your opinion based on hear say or do you have actual on hand knowledge?
Sorry I hope this does not seem disrespectful. Its not ment to be.I just cant see why you are so against Wet kits.I have used and tuned both wet and dry kits time after time again.I personally prefer a wet kit do to its power out puts and simplicity but I have nothing against a dry kit either.
Dave
Remember fuel does not drop out of the nitrous stream.Its impossible if the car is tuned right and using a good nozzle.
As far as lean spikes yes on some applications you may see a lean spike.Yes you can take that out with wiring or a londer nitrous line to the nozzle.But a lean spike is not why a wet kit makes more torque.Most of the systems I have tuned did not even have a lean spike...
I know you are a dry kit guy.Thats fine.I see nothing wrong with them.But all your post always kinda seem against wet kits.I know you run a dry kit and have some experience with them but how much experience do you have with a good quality wet system.Not that NOS Junk.
Is most of your opinion based on hear say or do you have actual on hand knowledge?
Sorry I hope this does not seem disrespectful. Its not ment to be.I just cant see why you are so against Wet kits.I have used and tuned both wet and dry kits time after time again.I personally prefer a wet kit do to its power out puts and simplicity but I have nothing against a dry kit either.
Dave
06-07-2005, 12:18 PM
#13
Originally Posted by Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet
Robert,
Remember fuel does not drop out of the nitrous stream.Its impossible if the car is tuned right and using a good nozzle.
As far as lean spikes yes on some applications you may see a lean spike.Yes you can take that out with wiring or a londer nitrous line to the nozzle.But a lean spike is not why a wet kit makes more torque.Most of the systems I have tuned did not even have a lean spike...
I know you are a dry kit guy.Thats fine.I see nothing wrong with them.But all your post always kinda seem against wet kits.I know you run a dry kit and have some experience with them but how much experience do you have with a good quality wet system.Not that NOS Junk.
Is most of your opinion based on hear say or do you have actual on hand knowledge?
Sorry I hope this does not seem disrespectful. Its not ment to be.I just cant see why you are so against Wet kits.I have used and tuned both wet and dry kits time after time again.I personally prefer a wet kit do to its power out puts and simplicity but I have nothing against a dry kit either.
Dave
Remember fuel does not drop out of the nitrous stream.Its impossible if the car is tuned right and using a good nozzle.
As far as lean spikes yes on some applications you may see a lean spike.Yes you can take that out with wiring or a londer nitrous line to the nozzle.But a lean spike is not why a wet kit makes more torque.Most of the systems I have tuned did not even have a lean spike...
I know you are a dry kit guy.Thats fine.I see nothing wrong with them.But all your post always kinda seem against wet kits.I know you run a dry kit and have some experience with them but how much experience do you have with a good quality wet system.Not that NOS Junk.
Is most of your opinion based on hear say or do you have actual on hand knowledge?
Sorry I hope this does not seem disrespectful. Its not ment to be.I just cant see why you are so against Wet kits.I have used and tuned both wet and dry kits time after time again.I personally prefer a wet kit do to its power out puts and simplicity but I have nothing against a dry kit either.
Dave
06-07-2005, 12:23 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Robert56
Well, my first wet kit I installed was in 1977 on a 57 chev (my car). I am not against wet kits by any means and certainly was not trying to turn this into a wet vs dry thing. I just put out my opinions based on my training and hands on experiance (also still ask and take advice). I am not trying to convince anyone what kit to use or wet/dry. Just getting the info out. Like this thread, you think the begining n2o users are not going to pick up a bunch of info and insight? I think dry kits in the smaller hits are great for beginers not having a full grasp on the n2o ins/outs, but if one makes an informed decission to go wet that's fine with me. N2o is the best bang for the buck power adder going. No disrespect taken.
06-07-2005, 12:47 PM
#15
I just reread what I typed... When typing it I did not relize how direct it was.After rereading it I relize that it could easly be taken wrong and possibly harsh so I first want to say Im sorry I typed that.I am in no way trying to discredit your knowledge.Just trying to read you a little thats all..
Im glad your a good guy.LOL
Im glad your a good guy.LOL
06-07-2005, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert56
Ricky, ok, the "Judge", that's what I was going to put first. Also, explain the reason a direct port will have such a lean spike.
The noid opens and starts to fill the direct port lines (lean spike), no load on the pump and volume goes up, then the lines are full but the pump volume is still up,( rich valley) then it all levels out. This all happens in a real short period on time.
Ricky
06-08-2005, 10:21 AM
#19
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The length of fuel lines vs. N2O lines seems like an obvious point. Yes, it is a small window of delay, but none the less would cause lean spike. Ive never heard of a dry kit not atomizing correctly.....or as well as a wet kit. This doesnt make much sense to me. THe fuel atomizes with the air under normal operating conditions with no problems. Why would the fuel not atomize with the nitrous as it flows by the injector?
P.S. I have a wet kit and think they ARE better, but not for these reasons listed above.
P.S. I have a wet kit and think they ARE better, but not for these reasons listed above.
06-08-2005, 01:41 PM
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I have always liked the idea that a dry kit sprayed way up front has plenty of time to mix with the oxygen in the intake system, and will distribute evenly. I guess a way to test the two out could be to datalog egt on all 8 cylinders. See where the better distribution lies.