Best way to make the stock rear live long and prosper?
06-23-2005, 01:16 AM
#1
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Best way to make the stock rear live long and prosper? Since I have basically a new rearend, I want to do everything I can to make it live as long as it can under the duress of my driving style. I'm hard on gear, no doubt about that. Good thing I have an auto.
Cooling?
Would a set up like Bill's make it last 50K with lots of track time, both drag and road? Fuggin sweet set up Bill.
Fluid?
Would a synthetic fluid aid that much in longevity and cooling? PO
Rearend cover/girdle?
I talked to Garth and am dropping off the ta cover with pre loads and main studs for him to install from the get go. This should help longevity and strength.
Tranny cooler is a no brainer.
Synthetic tranny fluid vs factory spec for an auto?
Thoughts?
I've heard that synthetic tranny/diff fluids will leak unless the gaskets are glued? Will the seals leak with synthetics?
Tranny/Diff gurus please pipe in!
Cooling?
Would a set up like Bill's make it last 50K with lots of track time, both drag and road? Fuggin sweet set up Bill.
Fluid?
Would a synthetic fluid aid that much in longevity and cooling? PO
Rearend cover/girdle?
I talked to Garth and am dropping off the ta cover with pre loads and main studs for him to install from the get go. This should help longevity and strength.
Tranny cooler is a no brainer.
Synthetic tranny fluid vs factory spec for an auto?
Thoughts?
I've heard that synthetic tranny/diff fluids will leak unless the gaskets are glued? Will the seals leak with synthetics?
Tranny/Diff gurus please pipe in!
06-23-2005, 01:52 AM
#2
I'd use a severe service gear oil... that can help cushion stuff in there a little bit. I used to use Redline's "Shockproof" severe service gear oil back when I had a 10 bolt, and I know Amsoil makes a similar product, and I think Royal Purple does too (I know they have regular synth gear oil).
The Rearend cover will help some as well... also, the fact that you've got stock gearing and an auto helps out a ton with limiting the shock to the rear end.
There's only so much you can do to keep a nice quiet rear end while drag racing regularly with decently hard launches. So the faster your car becomes, the more and more likely you'll start developing noises, and of course more likely to have **** fail.
The Rearend cover will help some as well... also, the fact that you've got stock gearing and an auto helps out a ton with limiting the shock to the rear end.
There's only so much you can do to keep a nice quiet rear end while drag racing regularly with decently hard launches. So the faster your car becomes, the more and more likely you'll start developing noises, and of course more likely to have **** fail.
06-23-2005, 07:53 AM
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Stay away from Eric in the bars! 
The TA girdle will keep the ring gear / carrier from moving around, so that is a very good mod. Another thing you can do for the rear end is a solid crush sleeve. That keeps the pinion from moving forward and backwards. These 2 things will help keep your backlash stable, and thus preserve the gears & keep things quiet.
Synth oil is a vast improvement over the regular stuff. It has much higher viscosity (lubricating properties) and will take about 1/2 again the heat before it breaks down. As Jason said, Redline, Royal Purple & Amzoil all make very good stuff. Pick your poison. Just make sure you get posi gear lube, or buy the additive. Or your factory posi 'clutches' will die an early death.
The killer for a rear end however (for racers) is wheel hop. The shock that transmits into the gears is incredible. So get yourself some good LCAs, & brackets if your car is lowered, (you'll need an adj panhard bar then too) and a stronger torque arm. Might even want to upgrade the shocks.
You see, there really IS a reason for all that crap I've done to my car.
The TA girdle will keep the ring gear / carrier from moving around, so that is a very good mod. Another thing you can do for the rear end is a solid crush sleeve. That keeps the pinion from moving forward and backwards. These 2 things will help keep your backlash stable, and thus preserve the gears & keep things quiet.
Synth oil is a vast improvement over the regular stuff. It has much higher viscosity (lubricating properties) and will take about 1/2 again the heat before it breaks down. As Jason said, Redline, Royal Purple & Amzoil all make very good stuff. Pick your poison. Just make sure you get posi gear lube, or buy the additive. Or your factory posi 'clutches' will die an early death.
The killer for a rear end however (for racers) is wheel hop. The shock that transmits into the gears is incredible. So get yourself some good LCAs, & brackets if your car is lowered, (you'll need an adj panhard bar then too) and a stronger torque arm. Might even want to upgrade the shocks.
You see, there really IS a reason for all that crap I've done to my car.
06-23-2005, 10:05 AM
#4
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
You see, there really IS a reason for all that crap I've done to my car.
So far my rear end seems to be holding up fairly well, we'll see how it handles a converter.. But when my carrier went out I replaced it with an Eaton, it has the T/A cover and stud kit, better bearings, and I had the axle tubes welded.
I can't run synth fluid in mine, though... the Eaton requires the use of non-synth gear oil.
06-23-2005, 10:32 AM
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Many of the rear end builders have disclaimers about using synth Zeke. When I called Moser about it, they said "As long as you use a type with posi lube, .....or add it, it's fine."
06-23-2005, 10:37 AM
#6
Even though my 12 bolt calls for conventional gear oil, I'll most likely be making the switch to the severe service Amsoil stuff. As Mark said, the people who are vendors for Moser have said that while it isn't recommended by the manufacturer, it isn't going to hurt anything.
06-23-2005, 11:49 AM
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Damn it! I forgot about the solid crush sleeve and he's already got it assembled past that point. 
The GM limited slip additive has to go in no matter what. Even if you get a limites slip lube. The guy at NW Diff told me to run 2 bottles of that in my chevelle's 12 bolt.
I'd be happy to get 40-50K out of this diff before I switch to a 12 bolt or 9 inch. I think the pre load cover alone will help a lot for longevity.
It's gonna be a test for me to go 500 miles without romping on it or getting sideways.......
The GM limited slip additive has to go in no matter what. Even if you get a limites slip lube. The guy at NW Diff told me to run 2 bottles of that in my chevelle's 12 bolt.
I'd be happy to get 40-50K out of this diff before I switch to a 12 bolt or 9 inch. I think the pre load cover alone will help a lot for longevity.
It's gonna be a test for me to go 500 miles without romping on it or getting sideways.......
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06-23-2005, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tranzor_Z28
Even though my 12 bolt calls for conventional gear oil, I'll most likely be making the switch to the severe service Amsoil stuff. As Mark said, the people who are vendors for Moser have said that while it isn't recommended by the manufacturer, it isn't going to hurt anything.
The girdle and studs will help alot, and i would ask him if he can pull it back apart to install the solid crush sleave, it will help a little too.
06-23-2005, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Rokko
Damn it! I forgot about the solid crush sleeve and he's already got it assembled past that point.
The GM limited slip additive has to go in no matter what. Even if you get a limites slip lube. The guy at NW Diff told me to run 2 bottles of that in my chevelle's 12 bolt.
I'd be happy to get 40-50K out of this diff before I switch to a 12 bolt or 9 inch. I think the pre load cover alone will help a lot for longevity.
It's gonna be a test for me to go 500 miles without romping on it or getting sideways.......
The GM limited slip additive has to go in no matter what. Even if you get a limites slip lube. The guy at NW Diff told me to run 2 bottles of that in my chevelle's 12 bolt.
I'd be happy to get 40-50K out of this diff before I switch to a 12 bolt or 9 inch. I think the pre load cover alone will help a lot for longevity.
It's gonna be a test for me to go 500 miles without romping on it or getting sideways.......
Just out of curiousity, how much are you spending on "strengthening" your 10 bolt right now? And how long do you think it will last? In my very humble (and not asked for) opinion, you should save it and put it towards a rear end that WILL last.........I realize you are too far into the process, but if it starts going downhill again sooner then you would like, I would really think about the switch.
Only reason I don't have a 12 bolt today is cuz the idiots fixed it under warranty.
06-23-2005, 07:15 PM
#10
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I definitely hold Redline shockproof "heavy" in very high regard. It saved my rearend in near catastrophic heat levels at my 1st ORR event. Probably 400*+ and no damage done. That stuff is REALLY thick, unfortunately it's so thick that it wouldn't flow in my diff cooler so I had to change it out for some Redline 90/140, which doesn't flow very well either until it get's warmed up, I flip the cooler on at about 240* temps. The others probably make a similiar product, but I've never used them nor seen them so can't comment on it. I can't imagine you needing a diff cooler for what you use it for, save your money imo.
06-23-2005, 09:16 PM
#11
shockproof heavy is what I switched to right at the end of my 10 bolt's life... but by then, it was pretty much too late I think. I was using Redline 90/140 before that... it was kinda funny, but after I sheared off a handful of teeth from the ring gear, I drained the fluid, switched to shockproof for two weeks and drove my car around... car drove fine with that gear oil and at least 8 missing teeth on the ring & pinion. 
Amsoil's equivalent is called Severe Gear... thick stuff, but still supposedly flows really well at cold temps.
Amsoil's equivalent is called Severe Gear... thick stuff, but still supposedly flows really well at cold temps.
06-24-2005, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sardog46
I have always beleived in regular gear oil...until i went o synthetic, and i would never go back. I run royal purple extreme duty, it has the posi additive mixed in already, even thought i don't need it. My nine inch is just now starting to make a little noise but nothing like my old ten bolt after a couple of hard launches.
The girdle and studs will help alot, and i would ask him if he can pull it back apart to install the solid crush sleave, it will help a little too.
The girdle and studs will help alot, and i would ask him if he can pull it back apart to install the solid crush sleave, it will help a little too.
I'm thinking I'll change to a synthetic after the break in period. Thoughts??
It was too late for them to do the solid crush sleeve........ I think after the break in period I'll take it to NW Diff and see how much to install a solid crush sleeve. Can't see it being more than a couple hundred bucks.
06-24-2005, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Rottluver
Just out of curiousity, how much are you spending on "strengthening" your 10 bolt right now? And how long do you think it will last? In my very humble (and not asked for) opinion, you should save it and put it towards a rear end that WILL last.........I realize you are too far into the process, but if it starts going downhill again sooner then you would like, I would really think about the switch.
Only reason I don't have a 12 bolt today is cuz the idiots fixed it under warranty.
Only reason I don't have a 12 bolt today is cuz the idiots fixed it under warranty.
I had the dealer install the aluminum cover with the pre-load posts for the 3rd member main caps. If you don't have one I would suggest installing one after your break in period. They are replacing all the bearings and seals, along with the ring and pinion gears in mine.
With my extended warranty deductable and all the other bs it'll be about 200 out of pocket for a new rear end and steering column.
06-24-2005, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Racehead
I definitely hold Redline shockproof "heavy" in very high regard. It saved my rearend in near catastrophic heat levels at my 1st ORR event. Probably 400*+ and no damage done. That stuff is REALLY thick, unfortunately it's so thick that it wouldn't flow in my diff cooler so I had to change it out for some Redline 90/140, which doesn't flow very well either until it get's warmed up, I flip the cooler on at about 240* temps. The others probably make a similiar product, but I've never used them nor seen them so can't comment on it. I can't imagine you needing a diff cooler for what you use it for, save your money imo.
Bill. Yeah, you're right though, not needed.
06-24-2005, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
Stay away from Eric in the bars!
The TA girdle will keep the ring gear / carrier from moving around, so that is a very good mod. Another thing you can do for the rear end is a solid crush sleeve. That keeps the pinion from moving forward and backwards. These 2 things will help keep your backlash stable, and thus preserve the gears & keep things quiet.
Synth oil is a vast improvement over the regular stuff. It has much higher viscosity (lubricating properties) and will take about 1/2 again the heat before it breaks down. As Jason said, Redline, Royal Purple & Amzoil all make very good stuff. Pick your poison. Just make sure you get posi gear lube, or buy the additive. Or your factory posi 'clutches' will die an early death.
The killer for a rear end however (for racers) is wheel hop. The shock that transmits into the gears is incredible. So get yourself some good LCAs, & brackets if your car is lowered, (you'll need an adj panhard bar then too) and a stronger torque arm. Might even want to upgrade the shocks.
You see, there really IS a reason for all that crap I've done to my car.
The TA girdle will keep the ring gear / carrier from moving around, so that is a very good mod. Another thing you can do for the rear end is a solid crush sleeve. That keeps the pinion from moving forward and backwards. These 2 things will help keep your backlash stable, and thus preserve the gears & keep things quiet.
Synth oil is a vast improvement over the regular stuff. It has much higher viscosity (lubricating properties) and will take about 1/2 again the heat before it breaks down. As Jason said, Redline, Royal Purple & Amzoil all make very good stuff. Pick your poison. Just make sure you get posi gear lube, or buy the additive. Or your factory posi 'clutches' will die an early death.
The killer for a rear end however (for racers) is wheel hop. The shock that transmits into the gears is incredible. So get yourself some good LCAs, & brackets if your car is lowered, (you'll need an adj panhard bar then too) and a stronger torque arm. Might even want to upgrade the shocks.
You see, there really IS a reason for all that crap I've done to my car.
Do you have wheelhop issues? Thought that was mostly an m6 deal. My car has never done it. I have LCA's and a panhard bar already. Got the cover installed now too. Will change to a synthetic after the breakin period.
New shocks aren't a bad idea. I'll have to look into that too.
06-24-2005, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rokko
Me too brotha, mine was a warranty deal as well. 12bolt or 9inch will be the next option when this one goes out.
I had the dealer install the aluminum cover with the pre-load posts for the 3rd member main caps. If you don't have one I would suggest installing one after your break in period. They are replacing all the bearings and seals, along with the ring and pinion gears in mine.
With my extended warranty deductable and all the other bs it'll be about 200 out of pocket for a new rear end and steering column.
I had the dealer install the aluminum cover with the pre-load posts for the 3rd member main caps. If you don't have one I would suggest installing one after your break in period. They are replacing all the bearings and seals, along with the ring and pinion gears in mine.
With my extended warranty deductable and all the other bs it'll be about 200 out of pocket for a new rear end and steering column.
07-13-2005, 12:14 PM
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Jegs is where I got mine for my 12 bolt. Though I don't see one for our wimpy 7.5" 10 bolts.
I changed out my fluid last night, it looked like new motor oil with a bunch of metalflake in it. Would have made a great paint color.
Is this normal for after a new gearset, bearings, etc......? ~600 miles on it since it was rebuilt.
I put in 2 bottles of royal purple 75/140 and 1-1/2 bottles of the limited slip additive.
I changed out my fluid last night, it looked like new motor oil with a bunch of metalflake in it. Would have made a great paint color.
Is this normal for after a new gearset, bearings, etc......? ~600 miles on it since it was rebuilt.
I put in 2 bottles of royal purple 75/140 and 1-1/2 bottles of the limited slip additive.
07-13-2005, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DrEvyl
Yeah, like changing over to a 12-bolt.
So far my rear end seems to be holding up fairly well, we'll see how it handles a converter.. But when my carrier went out I replaced it with an Eaton, it has the T/A cover and stud kit, better bearings, and I had the axle tubes welded.
I can't run synth fluid in mine, though... the Eaton requires the use of non-synth gear oil.
So far my rear end seems to be holding up fairly well, we'll see how it handles a converter.. But when my carrier went out I replaced it with an Eaton, it has the T/A cover and stud kit, better bearings, and I had the axle tubes welded.
I can't run synth fluid in mine, though... the Eaton requires the use of non-synth gear oil.
07-14-2005, 01:11 AM
#20
Originally Posted by Rokko
Can the axle tubes be welded in car, as it sits. Or do the guts and axles have to be pulled out?
I wouldn't try it myself...