Dry nozzle placement
07-24-2005, 03:04 PM
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Dry nozzle placement Converting over to dry, I will be using a Wet Shark Nozzle since I have so many readily available, and will just run two lines from the Nitrous Y block to the nozzle. Jetting I will start small and WB it. Not worried about "what size for what hp" as long as she stays out of being lean. But, using the K&N FIPK, should I have the nozzle spray perpindicular to the intake tract or parallel to the airflow? I think a perp is better so it doesnt have the straight into the MAF wires and will help avoid any potential freezing. Will take some creativity I guess.
TIA
Charlie
TIA
Charlie
07-24-2005, 11:12 PM
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Ok, well, I went and drilled into the CF backside of the FIPK, bought and tapped a Nylon nut for 1/8npt threads, mounted the shark nozzle, and now just need to make sure all is good with jets. I put a 38 and a 31 in. I have a lot of misc jets around so, figure I can go up or down as needed based off IPW, WB, and other items I am monitoring. What has been shown to equal a 200 shot dry? Thinking two 62's or something might be on spot.
07-24-2005, 11:50 PM
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Ill have to look at my kit at home. I have my dry jets drilled and marked for actual hp that I used to make on the dry. As for placement...you an go perpendicular as long as the nitrous isnt blown out the filter...lol.
07-25-2005, 01:49 AM
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Thought about blowing it out the filter as well, not sure if it will but will be logging to check everything out. Would really appreciate the jetting rec's too. I seen an old post with Robert56 mentioning 34 and 32 makes for a 150.
07-25-2005, 12:47 PM
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How far away from MAF do I need to spray so it dont freeze or is this bullshit? I want to relocate a nozzle to teh front of the K&N FIPK, and spray it straight down the throat of the beast.
07-25-2005, 02:58 PM
#7
What I have found doing more than a few dry set-ups, is that, nozzle placement is very forgiving. As you can see in the photo, I am running four nozzles that are about 3-inches from MAF. The are at about 50/60% angle to maf. I haven't had any frezzing issues.
A .032 and .034 according to the way NOS does it is 100hp at crank and 85rwhp using 15% drive train lose. A 200hp crank shot is dual .052's at crank and 170 rwhp. Using the above figures, you can use the every .001 jet increase adds 2.5hp at crank (only for dual nozzle set-ups), then do math to convert to rwhp. What noids are you using, as this can be the restriction to the higher hp figures wanted. This is just a guide line, as 383LQ4ss said, in reality, numbers could be different as every combo acts a little different, but this should get you close.
Robert
A .032 and .034 according to the way NOS does it is 100hp at crank and 85rwhp using 15% drive train lose. A 200hp crank shot is dual .052's at crank and 170 rwhp. Using the above figures, you can use the every .001 jet increase adds 2.5hp at crank (only for dual nozzle set-ups), then do math to convert to rwhp. What noids are you using, as this can be the restriction to the higher hp figures wanted. This is just a guide line, as 383LQ4ss said, in reality, numbers could be different as every combo acts a little different, but this should get you close.
Robert
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07-25-2005, 05:46 PM
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Robert, I am running a dyno tune large noid, good for 400hp flow. Shark nozzle should be good for around 250-300 I imagine. When you say those figures are for dual nozzle your talking about two single jet nozzles correct? So I should be the same using a two jet single Shark nozzle. I really need to convert back to a stock airlid bottom and SLP or similar lid. So many lids fit like **** though.
I have the nozzle entering the FIPK from the rear on pass side (opposite side of the IAT sensor), and it has the 90* discharge facing the drivers side. Hopefully not to much will be blown out the filter, if any. On test fires it blows out the filter, but with the airflow I am hoping it all goes down her throat. Looks like two 52jets will be going in.
*edit* do your nozzles point straight (inline) with the lines, or do they have a 90* discharge.
I have the nozzle entering the FIPK from the rear on pass side (opposite side of the IAT sensor), and it has the 90* discharge facing the drivers side. Hopefully not to much will be blown out the filter, if any. On test fires it blows out the filter, but with the airflow I am hoping it all goes down her throat. Looks like two 52jets will be going in.
*edit* do your nozzles point straight (inline) with the lines, or do they have a 90* discharge.
07-25-2005, 06:39 PM
#9
Ya, two nozzles and two jets, but shark will work with n20, n2o.
About blowing out the filter, I don't think it'll be a problem. If you look at the Vararam, a buddy set his up like mine. However, he put the nozzles down right at the filter, next to the plastic fitting in pic. Now the 5177 nozzles shoot straight out the end, right at the filter. Same thing when not running the n2o likes to go out the filter. Running the airflow turns the n2o towards maf and works like a champ. He ran a baseline 12.6x, then with it jetted to 96rwhp he knocked off a 11.48 and got kicked off the track. Worked well.
The 5177 does exit straight inline with fitting and mixes with incoming air and turns 90* to get a nice even temp for the MAF to read.
Tuning tip. Log AIT temp on spray and off spray, then check out IAT Temp x Fuel Adder. It comes zeroed out, but can work on top of your PE multiplier. It has temps that go down to fifty below that you can erich the a/f ratio. (HP Tuner)
Something to think about, is cutting the end off the shark nozzle. Then you'll discharge a straight stream and easier to mix with incoming air. If I remember the way a shark nozzle is this should work fine and jet will do what you need (no fuel so no need for atomization design).
Robert
About blowing out the filter, I don't think it'll be a problem. If you look at the Vararam, a buddy set his up like mine. However, he put the nozzles down right at the filter, next to the plastic fitting in pic. Now the 5177 nozzles shoot straight out the end, right at the filter. Same thing when not running the n2o likes to go out the filter. Running the airflow turns the n2o towards maf and works like a champ. He ran a baseline 12.6x, then with it jetted to 96rwhp he knocked off a 11.48 and got kicked off the track. Worked well.
The 5177 does exit straight inline with fitting and mixes with incoming air and turns 90* to get a nice even temp for the MAF to read.
Tuning tip. Log AIT temp on spray and off spray, then check out IAT Temp x Fuel Adder. It comes zeroed out, but can work on top of your PE multiplier. It has temps that go down to fifty below that you can erich the a/f ratio. (HP Tuner)
Something to think about, is cutting the end off the shark nozzle. Then you'll discharge a straight stream and easier to mix with incoming air. If I remember the way a shark nozzle is this should work fine and jet will do what you need (no fuel so no need for atomization design).
Robert
07-26-2005, 01:11 PM
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CAT3...the jets i have marked are:
.047 ~ 100 hp
.055 ~ 125
.063 ~ 150
That was on my old setup with the all dry. I used dual nozzles with these jets and a -4 line. So if you used a -6 line I would expect them to be a little higher if you were running dual nozzles. But those figures are right in the ballpark for actual RWHP values.
.047 ~ 100 hp
.055 ~ 125
.063 ~ 150
That was on my old setup with the all dry. I used dual nozzles with these jets and a -4 line. So if you used a -6 line I would expect them to be a little higher if you were running dual nozzles. But those figures are right in the ballpark for actual RWHP values.
07-26-2005, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
CAT3...the jets i have marked are:
.047 ~ 100 hp
.055 ~ 125
.063 ~ 150
That was on my old setup with the all dry. I used dual nozzles with these jets and a -4 line. So if you used a -6 line I would expect them to be a little higher if you were running dual nozzles. But those figures are right in the ballpark for actual RWHP values.
.047 ~ 100 hp
.055 ~ 125
.063 ~ 150
That was on my old setup with the all dry. I used dual nozzles with these jets and a -4 line. So if you used a -6 line I would expect them to be a little higher if you were running dual nozzles. But those figures are right in the ballpark for actual RWHP values.
Al, so a single nozzle with a 47, or is that dual nozzle (like me using one shark nozzle with both jets being nitrous)? I have to ask because I seen the issues of single nozzle is 47 and dual being a 32/34 combo? As long as I dont blow this crap up I'll figure something out with the jets. I just want a good satrting point, like 100shot, then I will log IPW vs. AFR vs RPM etc and see if she starts leaning out, will back off til I get the larger injectors.
Thanks.
07-26-2005, 03:39 PM
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To be certain, attached is how I have my Dry setup now, I see Robert has essentially 4 jets, not sure if thats counted as two nozzle or 4. I just dont want to throw two 63's in and end up balsting my engine to the heavens from it being a ~300 shot instead of 150 shot you know?
Charlie
Charlie
07-26-2005, 04:59 PM
#14
Originally Posted by CAT3
To be certain, attached is how I have my Dry setup now, I see Robert has essentially 4 jets, not sure if thats counted as two nozzle or 4. I just dont want to throw two 63's in and end up balsting my engine to the heavens from it being a ~300 shot instead of 150 shot you know?
Charlie
Charlie
Because 383LQ4SS has jetted to the power levels he wanted on a dyno they are probably closer to right on. With that said, VE of each engine has an effect on jetting choices also.
Robert
07-26-2005, 06:06 PM
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Robert, thanks. Trying to figure the difference b/w Al's jets and yours?
Al, are using a 47 jet in each nozzle? I know you been spraying some humangus shots, so thinking the 47 is a single jet/nozzle setup for 100hp per nozzle?
My brain hurts. I'll try the 38/31 (about 100 +/-) Then wideband and log from there.
Al, are using a 47 jet in each nozzle? I know you been spraying some humangus shots, so thinking the 47 is a single jet/nozzle setup for 100hp per nozzle?
My brain hurts. I'll try the 38/31 (about 100 +/-) Then wideband and log from there.
07-26-2005, 06:55 PM
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sorry...I am at work. Yes...the jet sizes i stated are for a single nozzle. So if I sprayed a .047 I would see right around 100 rwhp gain.
I was using two nozzles in stages...each getting a .047 would result in approx 200 rwhp gain.
When I started going to the larger shot of two .063 jets on each stage I would only see approx 140 rwhp gain on each stage. For instance I would see 280 rwhp gain divided by two jets each with a .063 orifice that equals a 140 for each .063 jet when being used both at once. However if you just used one stage with a .063 I would see approx 150-155 rwhp. Thats because i was near the limits of the -4 line spraying near a 300 shot.
lol...hope that makes sense. Also keep in mind I usually had 1100-1150 psi bottle pressure with a nitrogen push. But again...this is ballpark stuff.
I was using two nozzles in stages...each getting a .047 would result in approx 200 rwhp gain.
When I started going to the larger shot of two .063 jets on each stage I would only see approx 140 rwhp gain on each stage. For instance I would see 280 rwhp gain divided by two jets each with a .063 orifice that equals a 140 for each .063 jet when being used both at once. However if you just used one stage with a .063 I would see approx 150-155 rwhp. Thats because i was near the limits of the -4 line spraying near a 300 shot.
lol...hope that makes sense. Also keep in mind I usually had 1100-1150 psi bottle pressure with a nitrogen push. But again...this is ballpark stuff.
07-27-2005, 02:58 AM
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Caught that with a search Robert, its a matter of math as you mention and man, let me tell you, I am better at looking at a chart for wet stuff, or converting nitrous vs. fuel. With this dry I am just going to try and WB it and log it, adjust as necessary, nice having more than one jet to work with also.