Florida Members - Backgorund Info to V-series Techs Comments on NLP in Another Thread

Hey All,

I wanted to try and keep the drama out of another thread that was getting wrecked and off topic for the originator and trying to respect that. You can check out the original thread at:

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=363342&page=1&pp=10

What I see happening is my shop being bad mouthed. This is not something I do not take lightly, but can happen and since we are not perfect, awkward situations can arise. Stuff happens to everyone and no big deal. How issues are handled is what makes the difference. Everyone has an opinion and this is cool, but what I take offense to is when it is a third person telling the opinions and also giving no real info as to what the issue was or resolution was.

I am not here to rant or bitch by anymeans, just to throw out my side of the story and let folks make an educated consensus on how things went down and were handled. The following are some previous comments from V-series Tech and one section is a cut and paste from an e-mail to V-series tech back on 7/27/05. I have yet to talk to the customer on this as he can not be reached. I have offered to take care of anything that we actually made into a problem. If only tuning fixed the vehicle, we are also offering to pay the tuner for his work. We stand by our end of things and take care of our mistakes if they are proven to be true.

These are two of V-series Tech posts:

8/10/05
"Well,...all you guys that think Norris is the bomb, hey may just live up to his name, as he tuned my buddies procharger LT1 with LT1 edit, first off, hey let the car go with 330 rwhp, and 360 rwtq. Worse off, he let the car leave with over 30 degrees of timing in the car. There is alot more to it but, I don't have the time to type it. Bottom line, I had a friend, a local tuning facility, that has never touched an LT1, look at, and tune his car as a favor to me. They did, they also started with 330 rwhp,...then ended up with 378rwhp and 395rwtq with MUCH less timing. The car still has more to be made out of it but, I personally would NOT trust Next level with my car, ever."

7/27/05
"”Mike...
More recent, my good friend, took his 95 Z28 with a procharger, to your facility, to have "tunned"...... and ended up with less and less power each time you tunned it. Worst off, you didn't make it right,...you still charged him a stupid amount of money and he has near stock dyno numbers with his full exhaust and 8 psi.


Also,...your tech II wouldn't communicate with the car. You were saying there was a problem with the car,...when infact, he had to drive three hours to pick up the car, it took him all of 1 minute of inspection to reveal that there was a small piece of metal in the ciggerette lighter, that would constantly keep blowing fuses, which indeed would not allow the Tech II to communicate, since it wasn't getting any power.

I am in South Florida. I will, indeed STILL use horsepower sales for certain needs of my own, as well as my friends but, I , as well as ALL of my LS1 friends/brothers, trust me, there alot in South Florida...will not buy products or services from Norris Motorsports.....

I have taken the liberty to take care of my friend with the procharger, and hook him up with a tuner,...at my cost."

My e-mail response 7/27/05

"Hey Jamie,

As for the 95Z, that is Xxxxx Xxxxxxx from Davie if I remember right. I will give a little background from my side and we can move on. The car came here not ready to tune as Xxxxx as thought. I do not remember everything exactly as my guys did most the work. One thing I do remember for sure was that darn alarm causing more issues then it was worth and at times would not allow the car to run :crazy: At first the car would not make boost, maybe 3-4 pounds and drop off, and some initial checks with Chris here found the surge valve vacuum line going to the wrong source. We had also found that the orange "dryer" hose was not on the back of the SC unit properly and getting "sucked" into the intake of the supercharger as the RPM increased. We went ahead and replaced the "dryer" hose with a metal elbow and silicone. We then could at least see boost at times up to 7-8 pounds but I believe it was still dropping off like a slipping belt. This I do not remember for sure. I do remember the engine being stock and, but again I cannot remember for sure if there was still stock valve springs in there or not possible causing a problem. We also have a Crane ignition box that the timing module knob may have been moved accidentally and taken some timing out.

I also had the electrical issue which shorted out my Tech 2 which with the alarm acting odd was not sure what the problem was. If I had looked a bit more I would have seen the item in the cigar lighter once I had gotten to diagnose the issue. Xxxxx had driven up and had the cell phone charger plugged in and I thought nothing of a problem with the plug.

In the end Xxxxx and I decided on a vague plan on what to do a he wanted to pick up the car due to not having the funds to go any further. The car was doing better down low and peak numbers were up 10-15RWHP and about 20RWT and the car was still falling off on top. The hotter the car got the worse it was. The car has a Crane ignition box which I wanted to bypass, but it was hardwired in making that difficult. Usually a heat issue can be electrical related and eliminating the box first is how we approach it. The coil is stock and could also be the issue.

In the end, Xxxxx decided he would chase the short in the fuse and swap the coil, check things over and I think we mentioned making a quick disconnect for the Crane box for easy testing. When Xxxxx arrived we went over things and he was not overly happy which is to be expected when someone does their own installs to save money and is getting way over his budget. This I understand for sure. When he climbed in the car from the back he noticed something in the lighter which ultimately caused the initial short. I did not see it in the dyno room as it is quite dark and we saw this outside on a trailer. Not making excuses, just stating the facts. It ended up being something simple and at the time a car was on the dyno. Also in the brighter daylight we noticed the Spark retard control was rolled back. I told Xxxxx if he could hang for a bit we could finish the car on the dyno and try to put her back up for a run or two to see if we could see anything better with the timing not rolled back and the short fixed. He was kind of pressed for time as I was.

In the end we decided he would take the car home, get rid of the alarm, replace the coil, rewire the Crane box (again if I remember right) and double check everything. I told him when he comes back it would be no charge to finish the tuning as he has already pretty much paid for it. If there were still other gremlins that popped up that would be on his dime. he is still welcome to come back to be finished up or once Horsepower’s dyno is in we can do it there and be a little more convenient for him. If he has ill feelings and would rather not, that is his choice and I understand. Not really a no win situation, but can be a rough one. I am willing to take of any of my "debts" for sure. We did what we could do under the budget and time allowed.

Hope this helps explain things for you and if I missed something, fell free to let me know."

I did not get any response to this e-mail. I was also told I would get one here as well as a phone call and has yet to materialize.

You can check out my comments lately in the previous threads.

Again I am not defending the shop or myself if we did something and the original customer is owed. I just want to hear actual facts of what was wrong, what was done to fix it, prove these facts to me and preferably here it from the actual customer. I left his name out of things out of respect unless he said he says otherwise. He was actually a pretty cool guy with all that was going on. I know how easy it is to make a quick opinion of a person or a shop when negative aspects are brought up and I just wnat folks to have an opinion based on facts. Sorry for being so long winded on this and thanks to everyone that actually read everything. Moderators, I apologize if this is not the right area for this.

Thanks and good day.

Mike Norris

Dude. I didn't read your long winded post. You seemed pissed. I guess I would be to if I was you. Just explain to me why you put 30 degrees of timing into the car,...and i'll apoligize, and leave you alone.

Jamie,

See, now if you read the post you would see that (1) I am not pissed and just passing along info and (2) the answer to your question on the timing. I knew a long post would drive some folks nuts, but I would rather have too much info then not enough.

All of my info is here and, again if you would read the post, you would see what I am looking for. It is really quite simple. I am not looking for an apology as I may not be warranted one. I just want to know what actually went on to fix the car and if I owe someone anything. If an apology comes with it, then great and appreciated for sure. I more want to make sure that if a mistake was made that it does not happen again. Thanks

Mike Norris

Jamie,

See, now if you read the post you would see that (1) I am not pissed and just passing along info and (2) the answer to your question on the timing. I knew a long post would drive some folks nuts, but I would rather have too much info then not enough.

All of my info is here and, again if you would read the post, you would see what I am looking for. It is really quite simple. I am not looking for an apology as I may not be warranted one. I just want to know what actually went on to fix the car and if I owe someone anything. If an apology comes with it, then great and appreciated for sure. I more want to make sure that if a mistake was made that it does not happen again. Thanks

Mike Norris


Again,...time for this just escapes me. I'm trying to do a cam and blower install, and I have this to deal with. Again, your phone should be ringing. There was nothing wrong with the car dude,...nothing wrong at all. Tuning was close to stock, but really weird. Thats all. So, in the end, "handle it with the customer" ....otherwise, i'm done with this. If you have any need to see me, like I said before, I'd love to shake your hand. I'm always here, or the other places I mentioned. Best wishes to your company, and fixing my friends problem.

Jamie aka V-seriesTech

Hi Jamie,

If the tuning was all that was done after we worked on it, and that took care of all the issues, then I owe you if you paid for it. Or perhaps I could talk to the tuner and he can enlighten me. If I could reach the customer I would be more then happy to take everything up with him for sure.

No need for you to get upset and I know this eats up a bunch of time. But you brought this up in the first place, not the customer and therefore are somewhat responsible to follow through. I was just trying to resolve things in a proper manner. I will try to get by there next week.

Seriously though, if only the tune fixed the car I am willing to pay you or whomever and refund the customer. Thanks and get that car done.

Mike Norris

It took me 4 minutes to read that whole post and I am not a fast reader.
By guessing on the avarage it probally took 2 minutes to make the first post and 3 more minutes to make your second post. Plus add in the few words you read to begin with plus the second post Mike made and you probally spent 10+ minutes on this page already.
I myself read everything written and have typed what I have typed so far in about 8 minutes. Come on man Time isn't the issue here as you have wasted more time not reading everything the first time and making a legit reply.
If 1 or 2 minutes of time messes up your whole day you need to come work for me.
I would love to have someone work all 480 minutes of the work day.
Hate to see what happens if you have to poop twice in 1 day.

It took me 4 minutes to read that whole post and I am not a fast reader.
By guessing on the avarage it probally took 2 minutes to make the first post and 3 more minutes to make your second post. Plus add in the few words you read to begin with plus the second post Mike made and you probally spent 10+ minutes on this page already.
I myself read everything written and have typed what I have typed so far in about 8 minutes. Come on man Time isn't the issue here as you have wasted more time not reading everything the first time and making a legit reply.
If 1 or 2 minutes of time messes up your whole day you need to come work for me.
I would love to have someone work all 480 minutes of the work day.
Hate to see what happens if you have to poop twice in 1 day.

Maybe you don't understand, I really don't care what has to be said on the topic. Not sure how else to put it. My time, is money, if you don't understand that, well, what DO you understand. No that you have given your equation on this post, what input did you really have on the matter?

Have a nice day, I gotta go take my first poop. :devil:

Jamie

keep it civil or gator is gonna put the whoop ass on ya all! :P

Do it, do it....:rotflmao:

It's obvious what needs to go on here. The guy who owns the car in question needs to start talking instead of having a middle man. It's as simple as that. If the man isn't willing to talk then he really doesn't want to fix the problem, he just wants to start stuff and discredit a reputable company. Nothing more, nothing less.

i have experience with rev extreme in tampa and they were great people to work with. i have seen your desire (norris) to expand and perhaps open up a shop here in the south florida area which is a great idea. i think it would be awesome to have a great tuner down here and someone who knows what the fu@k they are doing here in south florida. we lack shops like yours and rev extreme down here because to tell you the truth breathless which is our only " true" if you want to call it that way, isnt really doing too well. everywhere i go, anyone i talk to i only hear nasty stories about breathless. i mean, they are as far as i am concerned " the worse" treating their customers and they feel like it is a 8-5pm job for them. i will say though that if i drove to the tampa area which is 4 hrs away for me and my car got done half as$ because they are in a rush to get the hell out of there that i will be one pissed off customer and i will make sure that i put out the word when i come down to miami. bottom line is customer satisfaction. one pissed off customer can do more damage to anybody's bussiness more than one can think.
i am not going or leaning towards anybody here. however, yes i will admit myself that i have " heard" horror stories here in south florida about norris. IT IS NOT MY OWN EXPERIENCE so i am not going to say to believe them or not. however, it will make me thing twice before going there and what i mean by twice is it will make me look at another competitor first before trying someone who has been spoken of in a bad way.
i could never say bad or good things about norris just yet as i have never done anything with them, but may be someday i will.
MIKE, whatever u do and if u do decide to open up a shop here in miami make sure you take your time with people. dont do the usual 8-5pm bussiness like most poeple do here. i think it will murder you here and it is exactly what breathless is going through. most of their bussiness is out of state and i have seen before my eyes how they " belittle" people when they are not bringing a corvette to their shop, but rather an f body. i guess they feel it " degrades" somehow their shop, but whatever.
Bottom line, i feel what we lack here is a "true performance shop" here. if you are not going to go the extra mile to get my money then i am taking my money somewhere else. simple as that. There is lots of money to be made here in miami and ft lauderdale and if someone could only put " awesome customer service" and treating their clients very nicely then i am sure you can make tons of money in south florida. MONEY ROLLS OUT ON THE STREETS here all day long, but only the few smart places can actually get a piece of it.

Do it, do it....:rotflmao:

It's obvious what needs to go on here. The guy who owns the car in question needs to start talking instead of having a middle man. It's as simple as that. If the man isn't willing to talk then he really doesn't want to fix the problem, he just wants to start stuff and discredit a reputable company. Nothing more, nothing less.



Yeah. Thats it. Ok. First off, I really don't care what happens with this post. Nor do I care where you tune your car. If the situation was reversed, you'd be doing the same thing, would you not?

Have a nice day boys,...

i have experience with rev extreme in tampa and they were great people to work with. i have seen your desire (norris) to expand and perhaps open up a shop here in the south florida area which is a great idea. i think it would be awesome to have a great tuner down here and someone who knows what the fu@k they are doing here in south florida. we lack shops like yours and rev extreme down here because to tell you the truth breathless which is our only " true" if you want to call it that way, isnt really doing too well. everywhere i go, anyone i talk to i only hear nasty stories about breathless. i mean, they are as far as i am concerned " the worse" treating their customers and they feel like it is a 8-5pm job for them. i will say though that if i drove to the tampa area which is 4 hrs away for me and my car got done half as$ because they are in a rush to get the hell out of there that i will be one pissed off customer and i will make sure that i put out the word when i come down to miami. bottom line is customer satisfaction. one pissed off customer can do more damage to anybody's bussiness more than one can think.
i am not going or leaning towards anybody here. however, yes i will admit myself that i have " heard" horror stories here in south florida about norris. IT IS NOT MY OWN EXPERIENCE so i am not going to say to believe them or not. however, it will make me thing twice before going there and what i mean by twice is it will make me look at another competitor first before trying someone who has been spoken of in a bad way.
i could never say bad or good things about norris just yet as i have never done anything with them, but may be someday i will.
MIKE, whatever u do and if u do decide to open up a shop here in miami make sure you take your time with people. dont do the usual 8-5pm bussiness like most poeple do here. i think it will murder you here and it is exactly what breathless is going through. most of their bussiness is out of state and i have seen before my eyes how they " belittle" people when they are not bringing a corvette to their shop, but rather an f body. i guess they feel it " degrades" somehow their shop, but whatever.
Bottom line, i feel what we lack here is a "true performance shop" here. if you are not going to go the extra mile to get my money then i am taking my money somewhere else. simple as that. There is lots of money to be made here in miami and ft lauderdale and if someone could only put " awesome customer service" and treating their clients very nicely then i am sure you can make tons of money in south florida. MONEY ROLLS OUT ON THE STREETS here all day long, but only the few smart places can actually get a piece of it.


That was a dead on post man. Nicly done. Tactful. :nod:

Jamie,

I think what 777 is trying to get across that it would just take very little time to handle everything in the proper manner. Hopefully we handled about we can for now.

whitecamaross,

I appreciate the comments & finesse and anyone that has directly had a bad experience with me is more then welcome to chime in. The only other issue I could think was some time ago and in fact happened in my shop, but was between the individual and the tuner who was working with me. I still have no idea what the actual problem was or who was at fault. Even though I was not involved, heck it wasn't even a car we built, I take the heat on that since I am the shop owner once in a while. No big deal, just really have no answer there.

We do currently have a Miami customer in here that we are having issues with parts, parts compatibility and wrong info that has dragged out some. The issues are so far with his supplied parts and so far we are working forward on that to get him running hard down there.

Again I appreciate your comments whitecamaross, and take them seriously. We are working with a company down in the area now called Horsepower Sales and located in Pompano Beach. So technically we are in a shop down there. They are a local family owned business and are customer orientated and hopefully we can earn your business. Everyone told me they are looking for a good LSx shop in the area when I posted about it some time ago and that is what we aligned with a good company. We would be happy to work with you if the occasion arises.

Most folks that come here always seem to say "I have never heard anything bad about you" and my first response is always " I am sure there are unhappy folks out there I do not know about." It is just the way the business is. Even happy folks can somehow still come across unhappy. Like I have said several times, it is not so much if mistakes happen or not, they will no matter what and it doesn't matter who you are. No one is perfect. It is what you do about it that says volumes about yourself and the company.

You mentioned the power of the internet in not so may words. Yes, it can be a powerful tool and so easy to wreck someone's reputation even when there was no issue in the first place. This is not the situation with Jamie as he has an actual event, just little actual info. Some just make stuff up just because they can and it is hard to tell the difference when reading. Most folks would be cautious and say "I am not going there" and not be willing to chance a potential problem. That is why I took offense to the posts in the other thread and felt compelled to say something. I have no problem with the actual customer coming here and saying his piece if I have done all I can do and he is not happy. We can "usually" have an intelligent conversation and make head way with help from the forum folks. This just had no backing of facts from the customer or good info coming from it so I pushed things a bit to get some answers. I always figure that good critisism, though it does hurt some times, can only help. Critisism with no merit, no facts and third party that is just basically an attack is a no win situation. Thanks again whitecamaross.

Crap, this is the most I have typed in a long time and starting to get blisters. I apologize if I have covered the same items several times as it is hard to keep track. Later all and please make some good out of this. I feel Jamie and I have personally gotten some where through this. Hopefully the customer will call or chime in and close this out. Keep it civil boys, I am trying too.

Mike Norris

I'm done with this post dude. Again, best wishes to you and your momma's(all of you).

Jamie

You must be slammed at work flipping burgers with the rest of the pimple faced teenagers.

Just tell your friend to man up and call Mike and handle his own business. Mike is willing to fix the issue if in fact the issue was due to something he did.

If your friend won't give Mike the chance to at least look at the car then SHUT THE FUCK UP!


I have two questions for you though......

Do you have to hold your friends prick when he takes a fucking piss too? or is it just limited to wiping his ass for him? :suspiciou

You must be slammed at work flipping burgers with the rest of the pimple faced teenagers.

Just tell your friend to man up and call Mike and handle his own business. Mike is willing to fix the issue if in fact the issue was due to something he did.

If your friend won't give Mike the chance to at least look at the car then SHUT THE FUCK UP!


I have two questions for you though......

Do you have to hold your friends prick when he takes a fucking piss too? or is it just limited to wiping his ass for him? :suspiciou

Teenagaer? Nah, I wish. 26 pee wee.


I like the "tell your friend to man up and handle his own buisness"

Thats funny. Cause here you are, trying to handle somebody elses buisness yourself.

What, your boy mike can't handle some negative feedback about something? So you feel obligated to make a post, that has nothing at all to do with you? Yeah, ok, you make sense.

Not that it concerns you but, the customer will call norris,...I think that point has been made obvious,...to normal people, several times. Therefore, no real reason to keep adding to this, as I am sure mike would like to solve this some other way, then your ignorant comments hiding behind the saftey of your computer.

Pull your penis from the mans rectum and Have a nice day bucky.

mike---> :hump: <----you

Agian, have a nice day, as I need to get back to work, as my burgers are now burning :jest:

You're 26 but you act like a 12 year old.

I don't swing from Mike's nuts. I occasionally go to Mike for stuff that is beyond what I can do, especially stuff that requires a lift.

I do know Mike from when he was at the dealer.

The car in question is not owned by you so let your friend handle his own shit! You are blowing it way out of perportion.

Now remove your mouth from your mother's tit and get back to the grill, the drive thru is backing up!

BTW The only big enough for me to hide behind would be a bus!

Wow Richie...temper temper. Hey, mind if I call you DICK?... Just let me know if that isn't cool, Dick. Listen,...I have a lift, several, therfore, I don't need to swing from anyones nuts, such as you pointed out, that you "don't do". Ok. Like I said before, dick, I think Mike and I are done, therfore, you adding to this, does nothing, except make me laugh, plus, makes you look a little on the stupid side.

Maybe you should rethink the comment you posted,.."The car in question is not owned by you so let your friend handle his own shit! You are blowing it way out of perportion." Now i'm sure you probably felt cool when you were typing this but,....maybe you can help me out... Do you own NLP? If you do, then I would understand your post, Dick. But, if you do not own NLP, which I am sure you do not,...you just made contridicted youself, dick. Not to mention, made yourself look like,...well an dick.

It's not my intention to bash you, or your comrades,....but really dude, your pointless. You say I act 12,...well what about you and the momma's tit thing? Another contridiction, Dick?

It's cool,...i'm sure your a smart guy. ;)

Quick question, off topic no doubt....whats your best ET in the big bad Z06? Just curious. If it's not less then 12's...you don't have to reply,...I understand.

Have a great evening dickie.

Jamie








You're 26 but you act like a 12 year old.

I don't swing from Mike's nuts. I occasionally go to Mike for stuff that is beyond what I can do, especially stuff that requires a lift.

I do know Mike from when he was at the dealer.

The car in question is not owned by you so let your friend handle his own shit! You are blowing it way out of perportion.

Now remove your mouth from your mother's tit and get back to the grill, the drive thru is backing up!

BTW The only big enough for me to hide behind would be a bus!

Don't worry my friend, I'm sure we will cross paths one day and I bet you will bitch up just like the rest of the internet tough guys from your area.

I'm very confident that my ZO6 will wreck anything that comes out of your so called shop.

That was a dead on post man. Nicly done. Tactful. :nod:



Wow first you have no time to read Mikes post but you had time to read this longass post and even reply to it.
What a bunch a bullshit.
What happened could have been handled in a very simple way. Mike posted what he posted and all you needed to do was have you boyfriend either call mike or make a post of his own.
Damn bro use some since for a change.

I'm done with this post dude. Again, best wishes to you and your momma's(all of you).

Jamie



I thought you were done with this post yet your still posting. Therefore I think its time you :STFU:

Maybe you don't understand, I really don't care what has to be said on the topic. Not sure how else to put it. My time, is money, if you don't understand that, well, what DO you understand. No that you have given your equation on this post, what input did you really have on the matter?

Have a nice day, I gotta go take my first poop. :devil:

Jamie



The only blower install your doing is on some dude's dick.
Funny your time is money as you have posted in this thread like 7 times but yet you dont have time to read Mikes post.
I have talked to Mike once in my whole life, have never met him, have never been to his shop and wouldn't know him from Adam if we crossed paths.
However he is trying to make this right and your bashing his company.
I am guessing you installed the blower.
Maybe I should bash your install work because you put a blower on a car that only made 3psi and fell on it face. Instead of having the person that owns the car make a post. That is a great idea right. Bash your shit just because I feel like it.
you ask what input I have on the matter???
Answer this question first.
What input do you have?
This isn't even your car.
People like you give shops bad names.
What probally happened is your trying to make money on installs. You have no work because you a complete ass hole and customers would rather own a mustang then allow you to work on their cars. So you badmouth a shop that is taking business from you hoping you can steal some business.
Whatever the intent of your post the fact is your not the one who should be making the post. If you can take the time to explain yourself then dont take the time to post a bunch of bullshit that really isn't even your problem.


BTW I was laughing at 12 second passes 4 years ago, and what does it really matter how fast someone's Corvette is? We can see how fast your mouth runs and none of us can keep up with that.

ok i leave the boards for a few hours and this is what you all do to me? shesh! if there is an issue with the ORIGINAL PARTYS, then they need to talk. dont trash my forum with your drama. both of you have said what you wanted.

mike, thanks for explaining. you will definately be available via telephone for immediate reponse right? ofcourse you will.

jamie, you are not an agent. quit acting like one. if its a big deal then the original party will talk to mike and make arangements accordingly.

good nite. post locked.