JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

I had a set of brand new PP stage 2 heads flowed at my local bench today.
As far as my local bench goes it is normally lower then the "advertisied" flow numbers. I have done 9 sets now on this bench and I had Jason from Thunder do 1 set for me a few weeks ago to compair numbers.
The local bench and TR's bench were almost dead on for the intake side, and my local bench outflowed Thunders bench by 8-10 cfm's on the exhaust.
Anyways, this was on a 3.9 bore, clad radius, no pipe etc.
Just like most companies do it.


Intake Exhaust
100--- 57.12--- 53.23
200--- 127.54-- 89.11
300--- 189.77-- 123.10
400--- 235.84-- 150.62
500--- 268.32-- 173.11
600--- 280.25-- 190.61
700--- 291.17-- 198.51

I was impressed how these heads just kept flowing up till 700. I am not very impressed with the overall numbers.
Again this is a different bench then what PP uses but at the same time out of the 9 sets of heads on this bench this set was the 2nd worst.
I will add a few results from other heads below from the same bench for compairson sake.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

This is the worst set I have seen that was CnC ported.
100----74.38 ----56.2
200----137.69----101.40
300----186.03----138.80
400----237.11----170.48
500----265.35----191.55
600----281.75----205.15
700----275.82----206.90

The 3rd worse set I have had made good power. They were LPE LS6 heads milled 50 thousands.
Here were the numbers from those heads.
200--144.87--102.48
300--202.79--139.75
400--260.35--177.26
500--290.49--199.93
600--301.70--215.35
700--292.53--222.35


The 3rd best set I had was by Jay from Absolute speed and here are the numbers.
200--- 149.87------ 107.48
300--- 207.79------ 144.87
400--- 265.35------ 182.26
500--- 295.49------ 205.93
600--- 308.70------ 220.70
700--- 295.49------ 227.35

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

I posted this info not for anyone to flame or say negative things about any companies.
Gunner has great CS and makes a nice product for the money so if all you can think of to say is PP sucks or some other nagative remark please keep it to yourself.
This is just some of my experience and I would like to share it with the LS1 community.
Hope your guys enjoy the flow chart.
Take care.

nostyta

iTrader: (6)

Nice info, thanks for sharing.

Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

#'s seem a little low, My PP Stage II LS6's flowed 302.7 (intake) & 220.4 (exhaust) at .600 But you are tight about the customer service & the heads cant be beat for the price.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

It's interesting how those flow numbers look. I'm not sure about the bench you used, but Thunder's bench is a pretty stingy one and rarely puts out big numbers. Interestingly, it's the same SF1020 that Patriot uses. I wonder why there's a flow discrepancy? Maybe it's in the testing procedure. Regardless, that's some good info and backs up what other independant benches have shown.

Scoobie

iTrader: (8)

As Always, thanks Jeremy.

Steve - Race Eng

iTrader: (1)

I have a 1020 SuperFlow here that I have done comparative testing on for JRP and Tony Mamo. What I will tell you is you can not get repeatable results using clay for the intake entrance. I machine my entrance plates out of wood. That way the radius is identical from head to head and port to port.

The exhaust side should be flowed with a tube. There is however no set standard for pipe diameter, length, or radius of the bend in the tube. A tube will increase the flow and gives a better indication of what the exhaust will flow with a properly designed header installed.

All flow benches vary a bit. The 1020 comes with an intake test plate which I use to make sure the bench is working correctly. Mine is within one half cfm on the intake side. There is no calibration plate for the exhaust side. I know my bench does read higher than most on the exhaust and a bit lower than most (accurate however) on the intake side. By most I mean SuperFlow 600 benches.

Steve

jrp

iTrader: (16)

for comparison purpposes here's the PP data from steves bench.



flow was 304 @ .650

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

The bench used was a JKM or JMK or something like that.
Not a popular bench but was very similar to what Thunder's bench said.
I have only compaired 1 set of heads on both benches and therefore I wouldn't say they are right on with eachother, however they were very close with the 1 set of heads I send Thunder and had checked locally as well.
Also if my local bench and thunders bench are fairly accurate with eachother I can see why you would say Thunders bench is stingy. As I said before my local bench has never shown the "advertisied" numbers.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

Nice info Steve.
I myself agree 100% with everything you said about the exhaust pipe. The exhaust should be flowed with a tube but I asked for no tube to keep everything as equal as possible. If there were a "common" size pipe used for exhaust I would use it. Maybe it's something we should debate and start to use. It would be a great idea to use a similar pipe when flowing heads but I am sure that will never happen.
As far as the clay radius, again what you say if very true. To make a piece of clay the same every time is impossible. After my 2nd or 3rd set I brought in 3 sets at once. I sat down and the "Fat Man" (what I call the flow bench dude)and talked about this issue. He made a stincle that he fills with the clay and somehow pushes it out onto the intake being used. Kinda hard to explain. Is it perfect... NO. Is it somewhat consistant. Yes. It's defentially better then making a new clay radius everytime by hand. Comes out real nice and then he massages the pink clay a bit to his likeings.
Soon we are going to do something similar to what you do to make sure everything is more accurate. We also flow 2 different intake runners and use the avarage of the 2. 1 Good thing about the PP heads is there were only a 2-4 cfm difference between the 2 runners. That is consistant if you ask me.
Anyways I only flow the heads to give myself a good comparision. It is mainly because of all these advertisied flow numbers and I was curious.
I do use these numbers often when looking for a set of heads for myself.
Next is what kind of power do the heads make.
That is a bit more difficult to compair as almost noone has the same setup with just a different set of heads being used.
I have some stage 3 TEA coming up within days. You bet your *** I am waiting to see those numbers.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

The exhaust is hard to compair being one had a tube and one didn't.
Cool to see that your heads also made better flow numbers past 600.

Het JRP since you have played with the PP heads can you answer these questions for me.....
How does PP get the 59cc's? Is it all in the welding, or do they weld it to a LS6 size chamber and then mill from there?
If they do mill was the heads you tested 59cc also? That could be a flow difference.
Also what size P- rods would be best for these heads?

jrp

iTrader: (16)

did you measure the port or chamber volumes?

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

Interesting, using a pipe on the exhaust would definately pick those heads up alot on the exhaust.. Probably 15-20cfm.. Thanks for the info tho..

jrp

iTrader: (16)

im pretty sure its all done in the welding and heat treating, you still have the full deck of the heads. thats the information gunnar relayed to me anyway.

the head i had tested was as follows

.

cam base circle and gasket thickness play a role in PR length but most people just use a 7.4". however to get the geometry correct i'd recommend buying a PR length checker. i bought mine from comps.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

Sorry no I didn't. I was going to install these today and had no time for anything else. Ran into a problem and am now talking about them rather then installing them. LOL

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

No doubt. IMO it would also be a better way to test the heads.
Most porters (if they are smart) would design their exhaust port around a pipe being used.
I am sure that there are some companies that might have a head pick up even more then 15-20 cfm's by using a pipe because their port design needs a pipe to work correctly.
The LSx world has no standard pipe used on heads and the first few sets I had done I asked for no pipe as I felt that would be best. Now I feel different on that matter but haven't asked for a pipe to be used yet.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

Kinda what I figured. I had a set of 7.4's laying around and ordered a set of 7.35 because I was unsure. I have a checker somewhere but it been a while since I used it last.
If everything is welded then I would assume a larger cam could be used with a 59cc head then most other 59cc heads.
I see you used a 62cc head. Again maybe that is where some of the flow differences took place.
I am sure gunner will add his 2 cent in here sooner then later and can give provide any info that might be wrong.
I have seen when milling a head 3-4 cc's if can affect flow numbers but I have no idea about welding the heads.

zamboxl

iTrader: (1)

hey man these heads wouldnt be for u would they??

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

Yeah from what I've seen a pipe is a must to get the "real world" numbers.. Some people used a curved pipe and some use a straight pipe but either one is better than nothing.