2-3 shift at WOT hits the rev limit
08-24-2005, 04:34 AM
#1
2-3 shift at WOT hits the rev limit As in the title: during the 2-3 shift the engine hits the rev limit and I have to release the gas pedal to let it shift.
At the same time the trans temp rises by 20F in few seconds.
Usually the first 2-3 shift is ok, if I try again it makes the problem I described.
It's the stock A4 transmission with 2.73 rear end. Stock converter too.
See my sig for mods and power.
The max pressure is rised up to 95 PSI, the shift table is changed accordingly (shift pressure vs torque).
Does it help if I increase the pressure further more? How much?
Is it time for a repair?
Does it help if I reduce shift speed and RPM? I just want to keep the tranny alive for some more time.
Thanks - Stefano
At the same time the trans temp rises by 20F in few seconds.
Usually the first 2-3 shift is ok, if I try again it makes the problem I described.
It's the stock A4 transmission with 2.73 rear end. Stock converter too.
See my sig for mods and power.
The max pressure is rised up to 95 PSI, the shift table is changed accordingly (shift pressure vs torque).
Does it help if I increase the pressure further more? How much?
Is it time for a repair?
Does it help if I reduce shift speed and RPM? I just want to keep the tranny alive for some more time.
Thanks - Stefano
08-24-2005, 09:36 AM
#2
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Mine will do the same thing from time to time i have a 3600 stall im getting ready to put in if you have done that it is very wise to get a tune done weather it be with a hand heald programmer ( predator diablo the best) or having someone do it for you. i have the same rear as u also out of 10 runs a night mine does that bout half the time, but when it doesnt do it i run 12.90 all night 13.3 when it hits the rev limiter when u go down the strip try to easily mash the gas insted of just mashing off the start i find that keeps me outta the rev limiter.
08-24-2005, 09:44 AM
#3
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I've been told a cracked sunshell can cause that problem, and that the sunshell is at it's limits when you hit 400+HP
We'll see if mine was cracked when I get my transmission back later this week, or early next.
We'll see if mine was cracked when I get my transmission back later this week, or early next.
08-24-2005, 03:21 PM
#7
PCM is stock 98, but very few numbers are the same as when the car was new 
Torque converter is stock.
I'm starting to reduce shift speed and shift RPM for the 2-3 shift: it's a blown engine and less rpm means also a lot less torque. Let's see.
Pete2k_Z28: this is very possible. Also the 3-4 shift is strange: it looks like that the 3rd clutch is letting go too soon. At certain conditions (60 mph, low tps, tcc locked) the rpm will raise of about 200 when shifting 3-4. Especially if I shift manually.
If the clutches are slipping it means they are telling my bye bye or it's just too much torque?
Do I have to check / replaces the solenoids?
Torque converter is stock.
I'm starting to reduce shift speed and shift RPM for the 2-3 shift: it's a blown engine and less rpm means also a lot less torque. Let's see.
If you're seeing a spike in temp, chances are your 3rd apply clutches are slipping.
If the clutches are slipping it means they are telling my bye bye or it's just too much torque?
Do I have to check / replaces the solenoids?
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08-25-2005, 12:37 AM
#8
It sounds like the trans is starting to let go. IMOP with that kind of torque a stock torque converter is harder on shifts than an aftermarket one due to its shift extension.
Add a fair amount of torque management back in as a temporary fix to help it last longer.
Add a fair amount of torque management back in as a temporary fix to help it last longer.
08-25-2005, 02:37 AM
#9
Torque management is now back to stock (up to 30%).
You can feel it badly but you have reason, it helps.
I tried higher values also but it doesn't reduce power more than that: TM is related to torque and ignition advance. My timing at WOT is now at 17* and it goes to 0 or even negative during the shifts.
This of the torque converter: is it usual to install high stall converters to have smoother (high power) shifts? Am I missing something?
I was thinking it was to reach an higher RPM before the car starts to move. Good for wild cams or for launching...
Torque converters - I don't have a clue!
You can feel it badly but you have reason, it helps.
I tried higher values also but it doesn't reduce power more than that: TM is related to torque and ignition advance. My timing at WOT is now at 17* and it goes to 0 or even negative during the shifts.
This of the torque converter: is it usual to install high stall converters to have smoother (high power) shifts? Am I missing something?
I was thinking it was to reach an higher RPM before the car starts to move. Good for wild cams or for launching...
Torque converters - I don't have a clue!
08-25-2005, 12:44 PM
#10
correct, torque converters also help at highway speeds in addition to the launch.
Say you shift at 6200rpm during your 2-3 shift. You RPM probably drops to 3500? With even a small stall(3000) and your tq amount you'd be looking at a min of 4600 rpm when it shifts to 3rd, thus keeping your boost up and less strain on the shift.
Say you shift at 6200rpm during your 2-3 shift. You RPM probably drops to 3500? With even a small stall(3000) and your tq amount you'd be looking at a min of 4600 rpm when it shifts to 3rd, thus keeping your boost up and less strain on the shift.
08-25-2005, 04:53 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by tici
PCM is stock 98, but very few numbers are the same as when the car was new
Torque converter is stock.
I'm starting to reduce shift speed and shift RPM for the 2-3 shift: it's a blown engine and less rpm means also a lot less torque. Let's see.
Pete2k_Z28: this is very possible. Also the 3-4 shift is strange: it looks like that the 3rd clutch is letting go too soon. At certain conditions (60 mph, low tps, tcc locked) the rpm will raise of about 200 when shifting 3-4. Especially if I shift manually.
If the clutches are slipping it means they are telling my bye bye or it's just too much torque?
Do I have to check / replaces the solenoids?
Torque converter is stock.
I'm starting to reduce shift speed and shift RPM for the 2-3 shift: it's a blown engine and less rpm means also a lot less torque. Let's see.
Pete2k_Z28: this is very possible. Also the 3-4 shift is strange: it looks like that the 3rd clutch is letting go too soon. At certain conditions (60 mph, low tps, tcc locked) the rpm will raise of about 200 when shifting 3-4. Especially if I shift manually.
If the clutches are slipping it means they are telling my bye bye or it's just too much torque?
Do I have to check / replaces the solenoids?
08-26-2005, 12:23 AM
#13
Originally Posted by BadBlackZ
To me this sounds like the converter is locked in 3rd as you said and when you shift into 4th it unlocks raising the rpms and then locks again once in 4th, almost like it is slipping. I have seen several cars do the same exact thing including mine.
I'll wait until it's really bad for a repair - of course - but I'm pissed to wait knowing it gets worst every day
08-26-2005, 01:37 PM
#14
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i posted a problem earlier about a similar issue. mine after changing to a 4.10 gear and using ls1edit, is hitting rev limiter in second but didnt when we first set it at 2 mph over 1-2 and 6 mph over in 2-3. i was thinking that maybe the tranny was about to let go but it only has 26000 miles and maybe 375 horses(dyno on monday) so i dont think its crapping its pants yet. I NEED ANSWERS!!!!!!!!!
08-26-2005, 01:43 PM
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I love the 4L60E. 
After blowing up three of them (blown up starshell, burned up bands, burned up clutch packs, destroyed solenoinds, etc) in my LT1 396 Stroker in my old car, I decided to go with a T-56.
There was an ongoing problem with OBD-I and the 4L60E not shifting 2-3 because of bigger converters (over 3200) messing with the VSS, but I thought that was fixed in OBD-II ?
Mike
After blowing up three of them (blown up starshell, burned up bands, burned up clutch packs, destroyed solenoinds, etc) in my LT1 396 Stroker in my old car, I decided to go with a T-56.
There was an ongoing problem with OBD-I and the 4L60E not shifting 2-3 because of bigger converters (over 3200) messing with the VSS, but I thought that was fixed in OBD-II ?
Mike
08-26-2005, 03:33 PM
#16
Today I reduced the shift RPM for 2-3 at 5000 rpm, speed adjusted accordingly...
It made 2 nice WOT shifts and then it started to slip.
At part throttle it still shifts OK, but at WOT I can forget it: it just goes up to the rev limit.
The ATF has still the original color but smells like burned
I'm now considering a M6, but I'm afraid of the job (I've never done it) and I still have the stock rear end (10 bolts).
Will it last?
It made 2 nice WOT shifts and then it started to slip.
At part throttle it still shifts OK, but at WOT I can forget it: it just goes up to the rev limit.
The ATF has still the original color but smells like burned
I'm now considering a M6, but I'm afraid of the job (I've never done it) and I still have the stock rear end (10 bolts).
Will it last?
08-26-2005, 05:48 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by tici
Today I reduced the shift RPM for 2-3 at 5000 rpm, speed adjusted accordingly...
It made 2 nice WOT shifts and then it started to slip.
At part throttle it still shifts OK, but at WOT I can forget it: it just goes up to the rev limit.
The ATF has still the original color but smells like burned
I'm now considering a M6, but I'm afraid of the job (I've never done it) and I still have the stock rear end (10 bolts).
Will it last?
It made 2 nice WOT shifts and then it started to slip.
At part throttle it still shifts OK, but at WOT I can forget it: it just goes up to the rev limit.
The ATF has still the original color but smells like burned
I'm now considering a M6, but I'm afraid of the job (I've never done it) and I still have the stock rear end (10 bolts).
Will it last?
The trick is to not put any tire on it stickier than a Nitto Drag Radial and if you put a Nitto Drag Radial on it, don't heat up the tires and don't dump the clutch at 4 grand.
Mike
08-26-2005, 06:04 PM
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I believe the 3rd gear clutches in your trans are shot.. Keep the Torque Management turned on and it will last alot longer. My car is doing the same thing when I spray it. I'm making around 450rwhp/525rwtq when I'm juicin and the trans has 112k miles on it! lol The shift points are stock and the pressures are all stock.. I did turn of the TQ Management and thats when all the slipping started..
08-27-2005, 01:46 AM
#19
Yesterday I talked to a guy that is selling his (rebuilt) M6.
It's a 2002, will it fit on my 1998? I think so...
Should I?
Trans, parts and shipping will be around 3000 US$
I was thinking to do the job myself, including electrical connections and reprogramming (load the M6 settings using LS1Edit).
It's a 2002, will it fit on my 1998? I think so...
Should I?
Trans, parts and shipping will be around 3000 US$
I was thinking to do the job myself, including electrical connections and reprogramming (load the M6 settings using LS1Edit).
