Supercharging A4 vs. M6: any difference?
09-12-2005, 02:40 AM
#1
Supercharging A4 vs. M6: any difference? Hi, I'll soon install an M6 transmission because my A4 is toasted.
I have a well functioning and tuned Vortech supercharger: it's their original setup included bypass valve. I also have their tune (I changed only timing and AFR at WOT).
I will have a M6 program, which right now is still for a stock car.
Is there something I have to change to the tune or to the mechanical set-up because of the transmission swap?
I can change the M6 tune to have the same fuel, timing and other stuff as now. I just don't know if a supercharged M6 has something different than an automatic transmission.
Car + mods: see my sig.
Thank you - Stefano
I have a well functioning and tuned Vortech supercharger: it's their original setup included bypass valve. I also have their tune (I changed only timing and AFR at WOT).
I will have a M6 program, which right now is still for a stock car.
Is there something I have to change to the tune or to the mechanical set-up because of the transmission swap?
I can change the M6 tune to have the same fuel, timing and other stuff as now. I just don't know if a supercharged M6 has something different than an automatic transmission.
Car + mods: see my sig.
Thank you - Stefano
09-12-2005, 05:31 AM
#5
my stock A4 slips during the 2-3 upshift and hits the rev. limit.
Upshift torque reduction is set at 50%.
Shift rpm is set at 5000 rpm (speed accrdingly).
Clear: I have to rebuilt it.
A rebuilt here (Switzerland) will cost as much as the swap.
I prefer not buy a new (beefed up) A4 from North America because if something goes wrong I'm 100% screwed.
Here they will rebuild it stronger but without guarantee... so what else than install a M6?
However, this is not the point.
I'd just like to know if a supercharged M6 has to be programmed differently than a A4.
Also if the SC setup has to be built differently.
Example: on a A4 the engine will be under boost also during the shifts. Not using a M6.
It means that the system (bypass valve) has to be fast enough and discharge the boost as soon as I lift the gas pedal.
If not the RPM won't come down so quickly or (even worst) there will be a backpressure on the turbine.
Upshift torque reduction is set at 50%.
Shift rpm is set at 5000 rpm (speed accrdingly).
Clear: I have to rebuilt it.
A rebuilt here (Switzerland) will cost as much as the swap.
I prefer not buy a new (beefed up) A4 from North America because if something goes wrong I'm 100% screwed.
Here they will rebuild it stronger but without guarantee... so what else than install a M6?
However, this is not the point.
I'd just like to know if a supercharged M6 has to be programmed differently than a A4.
Also if the SC setup has to be built differently.
Example: on a A4 the engine will be under boost also during the shifts. Not using a M6.
It means that the system (bypass valve) has to be fast enough and discharge the boost as soon as I lift the gas pedal.
If not the RPM won't come down so quickly or (even worst) there will be a backpressure on the turbine.
09-12-2005, 08:03 AM
#6
Launching!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're going to have a hard time keeping 4L60 alive with that level of power, unless you go 80-e or TH400. But if you really want to stick with an overdrive auto, PM cablebandit, I think he's running a rock-on transmission and has had excellent success with it
09-12-2005, 12:24 PM
#7
GUYS, THIS IS A SUPERCHARGER RELATED QUESTION IN A FORCED INDUCTION SECTION.
THANK YOU FOR TELLING ME WHO SELLS AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS, BUT I'M GOING WITH A STICK = MANUAL TRANSMISSION = T56.
NO DOUBTS ABOUT THAT. SO I DON'T CARE (READ GIVE A FU**) ABOUT AUTOMATIC ANYMORE. PERIOD.
Sorry for screaming, but please: read first the question THEN answer (only if you have something to say). I think transmission builders have already enough advertising.
Stefano
THANK YOU FOR TELLING ME WHO SELLS AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS, BUT I'M GOING WITH A STICK = MANUAL TRANSMISSION = T56.
NO DOUBTS ABOUT THAT. SO I DON'T CARE (READ GIVE A FU**) ABOUT AUTOMATIC ANYMORE. PERIOD.
Sorry for screaming, but please: read first the question THEN answer (only if you have something to say). I think transmission builders have already enough advertising.
Stefano
Trending Topics
09-12-2005, 12:30 PM
#8
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Loganville, GA
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol... sorry they're not reading, tici.... I just about rolled on the floor laughing at post #6. I feel your pain 
But for your question, I don't think you would have to change really anything. But I'm not 100%. Let someone with knowledge come in and post.
But for your question, I don't think you would have to change really anything. But I'm not 100%. Let someone with knowledge come in and post.
09-12-2005, 12:36 PM
#9
Stefano,
With your setup and bypass valve, everything related to the supercharger should work fine after you change transmissions. If you go to higher boost later, you may need to either go to the race bypass or add a second Bosch bypass like the one you have now.
You will have to tune for the new and different engine loadings with your M6 - specifically fuel map and spark timing. They shouldn't need big changes though, since you are running such low boost.
Enjoy!
Jim
With your setup and bypass valve, everything related to the supercharger should work fine after you change transmissions. If you go to higher boost later, you may need to either go to the race bypass or add a second Bosch bypass like the one you have now.
You will have to tune for the new and different engine loadings with your M6 - specifically fuel map and spark timing. They shouldn't need big changes though, since you are running such low boost.
Enjoy!
Jim
09-12-2005, 02:45 PM
#11
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St Clairsville, Oh
Posts: 1,387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If your car was tuned with the A4 when it was slipping you will need to do a good amount of changing in the Fuel and timing. You might see a little more boost now because you will have a stronger link from the motor to the rear tires.
As for your rear. Yes i have seen then stock rear ends come apart on the streat but they where being hard on the rear end. I know for a fact that i heard parts grinding in my rear end after i did the A4 To M6 swap when i did a 1/2 shift. Even on the some stock 275 tires the thing would grab hard and i would hear parts a doing things they should not be doing. Just an FYI from someone that has done this first hand.
As for your rear. Yes i have seen then stock rear ends come apart on the streat but they where being hard on the rear end. I know for a fact that i heard parts grinding in my rear end after i did the A4 To M6 swap when i did a 1/2 shift. Even on the some stock 275 tires the thing would grab hard and i would hear parts a doing things they should not be doing. Just an FYI from someone that has done this first hand.
09-12-2005, 03:41 PM
#12
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 6,368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
changing to a m6, now you'll have to worry about breaking your rear end, clutches, and synchros and now you'll have a tougher time trying to hook out of the hole. so you traded off one problem for another.
but you'll be banging your own gears.
but you'll be banging your own gears.
09-12-2005, 04:29 PM
#13
This is something I never understood: how delicate is the stock M6 transmission included diff? Is it already at the limit?
I have to suppose it is because 1/3 more power is apparently enough to brake things.
1/3 should be within the design reserve. Usually (for machines and constructions) you add at least 50% to 100% reserve.
This of braking thing happens during what kind of driving? 1/4 miles races? Daily drive?
I never race: mine is just a daily drive with that little extra.
I have to suppose it is because 1/3 more power is apparently enough to brake things.
1/3 should be within the design reserve. Usually (for machines and constructions) you add at least 50% to 100% reserve.
This of braking thing happens during what kind of driving? 1/4 miles races? Daily drive?
I never race: mine is just a daily drive with that little extra.
09-12-2005, 04:48 PM
#14
Transmissions (IMO) break because of the driver.. As for the rearend, If you launch your car it will most likly break. But sence you don't race you should not have a problem with either...
09-12-2005, 08:47 PM
#17
Launching!
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by goober35
Your rear end is going to take a dump on you soon. M6+F-body rear end+stock f-body driveshaft = BOOM
09-13-2005, 12:57 AM
#18
Originally Posted by Got Me SOM
the rear end is out of a 4 cyl light pickup truck if that gives you a clue.
But why the hell is GM selling a car with a 300+ HP engine and a bunch of crap around it?
Honestly...
the 4L60E is a POS
Suspensions are the same as in the 70ies
Brakes suck (too small diameter)
interior = cheap plastic + sounds like a rattlesnake
rear end we know
what else... oh yes, it's cheap!
Cheap only in North America, because over here mine was out for over $50'000 in the 98
09-13-2005, 05:38 AM
#19
There is no doubt that the M6 transmissions will hold up longer than the automatics with forced induction, stock vs stock. As long as you do not powershift the manual transmission, you shouldn't have any problems with one. My suggestion would be to order a built one from D&D Performance, located over here in Michigan.
I would also install a performance clutch, such as the Spec Stage 3. Make sure you get a new '01-'02 slave cylinder and a new master cylinder for the clutch. Bob
I would also install a performance clutch, such as the Spec Stage 3. Make sure you get a new '01-'02 slave cylinder and a new master cylinder for the clutch. Bob