Public

iTrader: (19)

I've got one of those "Xtreme Super Turbo Muffler's" and I just got HPT and this weekend the Motron 60's go in and the 42's go up for sale. Problem is I need a good running CORRECT injector constant's for these damn things. I dont want to fight a poor idle forever as some have so chime in if you've got some that work sweet. I could use some general pointing in the right direction on HPT and FI from time to time. I've done much reading forums and archives about tuning HPT but still need a question answered from time to time.

greentahoe

iTrader: (2)

I have the same questions. Im putting in a set of 60lb motrons in my 408 with a T trim. Some one has to have something close as far as injector numbers.

Zombie

iTrader: (2)

Offset Table

7.99 7.99 7.99 7.99 7.99 7.99 7.99 7.99 7.99 7.98 7.90 7.89 7.80 7.78 7.78 7.78 7.78
7.74 7.74 7.74 7.74 7.74 7.74 7.74 7.74 7.74 7.72 7.63 7.61 7.52 7.51 7.51 7.51 7.51
7.46 7.46 7.46 7.46 7.46 7.46 7.46 7.46 7.46 7.46 7.37 7.36 7.26 7.25 7.26 7.26 7.26
6.43 6.43 6.43 6.43 6.43 6.43 6.43 6.43 6.43 6.41 6.32 6.31 6.22 6.20 6.20 6.20 6.20
5.38 5.38 5.38 5.38 5.38 5.38 5.38 5.38 5.38 5.36 5.29 5.27 5.18 5.15 5.17 5.17 5.17
4.35 4.35 4.35 4.35 4.35 4.35 4.35 4.35 4.35 4.32 4.23 4.21 4.12 4.10 4.12 4.12 4.12
3.28 3.28 3.28 3.28 3.28 3.28 3.28 3.28 3.28 3.27 3.19 3.18 3.09 3.07 3.09 3.09 3.09
2.25 2.25 2.25 2.25 2.25 2.25 2.25 2.25 2.25 2.23 2.14 2.13 2.04 2.02 2.02 2.02 2.02
1.98 1.98 1.98 1.98 1.98 1.98 1.98 1.98 1.98 1.98 1.88 1.87 1.78 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76
1.72 1.72 1.72 1.72 1.72 1.72 1.72 1.72 1.72 1.72 1.63 1.61 1.52 1.50 1.52 1.52 1.52
1.46 1.46 1.46 1.46 1.46 1.46 1.46 1.46 1.46 1.44 1.35 1.34 1.25 1.23 1.25 1.25 1.25
1.40 1.40 1.40 1.40 1.40 1.40 1.40 1.40 1.40 1.20 1.11 1.09 1.00 0.97 0.99 0.99 0.99
1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 1.09 0.93 0.84 0.82 0.73 0.70 0.71 0.71 0.71
0.99 0.99 0.99 0.99 0.99 0.99 0.99 0.99 0.99 0.82 0.73 0.71 0.62 0.61 0.62 0.62 0.62
0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.71 0.62 0.61 0.52 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50
0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.85 0.71 0.62 0.61 0.52 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50
0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.70 0.61 0.59 0.50 0.49 0.49 0.49 0.49
0.81 0.81 0.81 0.81 0.81 0.81 0.81 0.81 0.81 0.67 0.58 0.56 0.47 0.46 0.46 0.46 0.46
0.74 0.74 0.74 0.74 0.74 0.74 0.74 0.74 0.74 0.62 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.41 0.41 0.41 0.41
0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.70 0.64 0.53 0.52 0.43 0.36 0.41 0.41 0.41

My IFR table in GM/S
7.203
7.242
7.281
7.352
7.383
7.422
7.469
7.492
7.563
7.586
7.641
7.672
7.680
7.680
7.727
7.789
7.789

This is what I use on my daily driven stock motor car. It works great and the 02's cycle decently. I've also used this on 2 other cars with stock motors and they run the same as mine. Will probably need some tweaking for your setup if you try it.

Public

iTrader: (19)

I was wondering when Zombie would pony up!!! I knew he had a good time making it idle right. Thanks man. I'm gonna go out and put those bad boys in right now. My LS6 intake just arrived but thats for another day.

MECHAM

iTrader: (4)

I tried these numbers..and
LTRIMS are great! 0 to .8
STRIMS are great! -1.6

but my O2's dont cycle at all .875 or so and go up and down +/- 5

any thoughts on this? this is only for idling...i didnt drive around in this condition

Zombie

iTrader: (2)

I had to play with my switch points a little. I'll have to see what they are and post them. Mine cycle but they are far from a pretty sinewave, but it works pretty decent.

Try driving around on them. I know when I first start my car up they won't cyle much at all until I start driving it and get them pretty warm. Then they work pretty good. 60's are very tough to get perfect on a stock size motor. Most people just give up and live with a 11.x a/f idle since the rest of the car seems to run well. At least thats what i've seen others complain about.

White_Hawk

iTrader: (3)

Big injectors don't like idleing at low pulsewidths. When I had my 60's I could only get them to switch at idle when I had the AC on. I was told to try leaning out the idle cell of the IFR table and see if that would do it. Either that or just block the codes for no switching.

-Geoff

MECHAM

iTrader: (4)

you got anything figured out on this ZOMBIE?

I would like to use those numbers..but without the o2's cycling..im kind of scared to drive around. I let the car idle for like 10-15 min and they still didnt cycle.

any ideas?

Blackbird

what do you guys mean cycling?

are you saying they dont jump up and down from high to low values in the logs?

I have the stock offset (although going to try zombies today) and have zero issues.

I wonder if it's easier for me due to my vacum/boost referenced FPR and the fact I lowered the base FP.

I have also tuned these on a car with stock FP but again using a referenced FPR. (he is using 97-98 vette rails/regulator) Again no idle issues with the stock offset. I have Zombies offset in that car right now. Not sure it helped a bunch but it certainly didn't hurt it at all.

MECHAM

iTrader: (4)

when i put ZOMBIES numbers in the car..i had a FP of ~50psi

and yes what i mean by cycling..is how the o2 values change constantly from .001v to .9xx - when i put in the offset tables...the o2s just stayed around .875 and didnt move hardly

Zombie

iTrader: (2)

Mecham, try driving the car and see if they start cycling after that. I know mine sometimes won't start cycling until after i've driven a little.

Using a boost referenced fuel system with lower fuel pressure REALLY helps getting these injectors to work. They supply A LOT of fuel and i've found them to be pretty tricky to get right at idle. Sometimes my idle will end up a little on the rich side in the 13.x range and the o2's don't cycle as well as i'd like. Other times the are really good. I have noticed that the hotter the car is the more likely it is to cycle the o2's at idle.

My fuel system is stock with a walbro 255 HP in tank.

Ed Blown Vert

iTrader: (2)

I just installed my 60's and didn't even touch the offset. Mine idles fine. Whats the advantage to setting the offset?

MECHAM

iTrader: (4)

what are your LTRIMS and STRIMS at idle?

mine were +18 ltrims and my strims were + as well...using those offsets netted me whatever i posted above

Ed Blown Vert

iTrader: (2)

Still working on the tune, but right now LTFT @idle are close to zero.

Cruising is where they are higher. Once I fix part-throttle and bring down the LTFT's then my LTFT's @ idle will go up.

So I'll check into the offset. Thanks.

Zombie

iTrader: (2)

I came up with that table by setting my IFR table get the LTFT's close, but there was a very large split around 60 kpa if i remember correctly. It's been a while since I came up with that table. On one side of 60 Kpa everything was like -7 and the other side was like +8, so I knew I was pretty close to the middle. I then started playing with the offsets because they are a constant. The offset is the amount of time the computer adds into the calculated pulse width to account for the delay or dwell before the injector actually fires fuel. It takes time to saturate an inductive load.

Dialed in my LTFTs the rest of the way with the offset table, made a few changes to the IFR table to get things happier, then started dialing in the PE table.

I also had to adjust the open loop F/A multiplier for startup because the car ran really rich for the first min or so.

Make sure that you have a wide band if you start making chages to the 0 Kpa column. It will affect your WOT fueling. Make it higher you run richer, make it lower, leaner when under boost.

Hopefully my reasoning on how I came up with this table will help others tweak it to suite their needs. I know people always ask about injector offsets all the time for different types of injectors. I've found that if you just say forget being exact to manufacturers specs and dial things in the way I described the cars run really good without having crazy VE and IFR tables to make LTFT's do what you want them to.

Ed Blown Vert

iTrader: (2)

Oh well, try your offset. Made it worse. Thanks though.......

98Z28CobraKiller

iTrader: (17)

Back from the dead. I am NA and am just trying to get my offset table correct as I am having some bucking that nothing else will fix. Can anyone verify these values?

eb02z06

iTrader: (18)

Same with me-never touched the offset-just scaled them. Everything works fine-maybe it's because I have a 346?

ZL1Killa

iTrader: (17)

vortech.. i just noticed your sig. whats up with the low tq number compared to the hp? you keeping it safe and staying away from cracked ringlands and motor problems?

eb02z06

iTrader: (18)

Yeah bro-also my car is running the 317 headsversus the LS6 heads it came with-so dropping compression from 10.5 ot 9.85 is also hurting my torque-another thing hurting my torque is ruuning through factory cats-not hi-flows the factory bricks. Plus it's tuned to 11.1 AFR with meth and 18 degrees of timing-nice and safe. I have never seen any knock at all on any of the logs. Car just ran 11.26@131+ the other day with a 1.88 short-vids are on the drag race and FI section.