air bag ?
10-11-2005, 05:53 PM
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air bag ? Im trying to improve my suspension for launching at the track, and my car is lowered with a pro kit, stock shocks
EDIT-
Would a right rear air bag work effectively for track launching as a substitute for a bigger rear swaybar. I noticed my stock passenger side axle bumpstop is very torn up indicating the axle hits the bump stop frequently and hard. My LCAs are at a bad angle which creates squat under acceleration so this is part of my problem, but this will be fixed.
I found out about 3rd gen rear sway bars being bigger so I will try to get one, but I think an air bag should help out a lot in the mean time
EDIT-
Would a right rear air bag work effectively for track launching as a substitute for a bigger rear swaybar. I noticed my stock passenger side axle bumpstop is very torn up indicating the axle hits the bump stop frequently and hard. My LCAs are at a bad angle which creates squat under acceleration so this is part of my problem, but this will be fixed.
I found out about 3rd gen rear sway bars being bigger so I will try to get one, but I think an air bag should help out a lot in the mean time
Last edited by BigSteele; 10-19-2005 at 05:44 PM.
10-11-2005, 06:18 PM
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air bags are actually not as stiff as you might think. you can air up a friends s10 with the stiffest bag out there (a slam specialties) and there is still movement in the back, its not rock solid.
with the airbag setup, you want to adjust the PSI doing several launches and see what is the best. The only thing is, to use actual rubber airbags, you need to remove your springs. I have seen a few cars using really small 'overload' type setups, but they was on leaf spring rear ends. I havent seen a coil rear setup with a bag setup to launch.
also, is the weight of a tank, valves, compressor and gauge, worth what gain you'll see? air tanks arent light, especially with say the normal 140psi of air compressed into them.
with the airbag setup, you want to adjust the PSI doing several launches and see what is the best. The only thing is, to use actual rubber airbags, you need to remove your springs. I have seen a few cars using really small 'overload' type setups, but they was on leaf spring rear ends. I havent seen a coil rear setup with a bag setup to launch.
also, is the weight of a tank, valves, compressor and gauge, worth what gain you'll see? air tanks arent light, especially with say the normal 140psi of air compressed into them.
10-11-2005, 06:37 PM
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im not talking about "hydraulics", Im talking about the bags like what comes in the Eibach drag launch kit, its a bag that fits inside the rear spring and a remote tube attaches somewhere where you can change the pressure of the bag, its a sealed system that you can change the pressure at the tube.
http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...3&autoview=sku
http://www.lmperformance.com/547/2.html
http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...3&autoview=sku
http://www.lmperformance.com/547/2.html
10-11-2005, 08:09 PM
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alright. Well with that you still need some sort of tank and compressor or you wont get the air anywhere.. to get it right you need a gauge and valves to adjust it to the 'perfect' setting... and bags are NOT hydrualics.. sorry that's a nerve... but as for that kit, that's fine, but you still need those things mentioned.. that doesnt 'raise' it any, it just makes the springs harder on launch to keep the weight distribution off solely the rear wheels. notsure if the kit comes with it, but some ppl have em setup to inflate to X psi and then after the launch, they go empty..
10-11-2005, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BigSteele
Im trying to improve my suspension for launching at the track, and my car is lowered with a pro kit...
I dont have a lot of money to spend and I was wondering if getting an airbag would make it possible to raise the rear a little to put it back to normal geometry. (instead of relocation brackets) I know most people just use one on the RR but what about adding it to both sides so you can increase the rear height? or would it do a good job of this with just one side?
I know relocation brackets are reccomended but if you could simply raise the rear to nomal height wouldnt this be even better?
I have another question about the air bags, isnt the plan for launching to get weight transfer and basically the front end to raise up and the rear end to squat down? My car seems to do that pretty good with my current springs/shocks.
If you add a bag to "stiffen" the rear springs wouldnt this prevent the rear end from squatting down as much, and would it limit weight transfer?
If this is the case would it still be better to raise my rear to proper height even if it means loosing some weight transfer?
I dont have a lot of money to spend and I was wondering if getting an airbag would make it possible to raise the rear a little to put it back to normal geometry. (instead of relocation brackets) I know most people just use one on the RR but what about adding it to both sides so you can increase the rear height? or would it do a good job of this with just one side?
I know relocation brackets are reccomended but if you could simply raise the rear to nomal height wouldnt this be even better?
I have another question about the air bags, isnt the plan for launching to get weight transfer and basically the front end to raise up and the rear end to squat down? My car seems to do that pretty good with my current springs/shocks.
If you add a bag to "stiffen" the rear springs wouldnt this prevent the rear end from squatting down as much, and would it limit weight transfer?
If this is the case would it still be better to raise my rear to proper height even if it means loosing some weight transfer?
I think first you should consider some lower adjustable control arm mounts. That will at least get your control arms back to the proper height and geometry. I think the money that you will spend on the airbags is a waste. The only reason for the airbag (in most situations) is the keep the persons car from twisting the hell out of the chassis. Spend the money on the mounts. Forget about the airbag idea unless your car is picking up the drivers side front end more than the passengers upon launch.
10-11-2005, 09:09 PM
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an air bag like the one he is talking about fits inside of the spring and you can ajust the pressure directly at the bag with a regular air compressor. these bags wont be enough to lift the rear of your car much at all. they will stiffen the rear spring rate but like i said probably wont lift the car. the bags are mostly to ajust launch, like if your car darts a little to the left on launch then puting a bag in the left rear with some air pressure would help that. go get some relocation brackets they arn't that expensive.
10-11-2005, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dcdime
alright. Well with that you still need some sort of tank and compressor or you wont get the air anywhere.. to get it right you need a gauge and valves to adjust it to the 'perfect' setting... and bags are NOT hydrualics.. sorry that's a nerve... but as for that kit, that's fine, but you still need those things mentioned.. that doesnt 'raise' it any, it just makes the springs harder on launch to keep the weight distribution off solely the rear wheels. notsure if the kit comes with it, but some ppl have em setup to inflate to X psi and then after the launch, they go empty..
the bag is attached to a hose that attaches to a remote accessible location and the hose has a tire stem valve on it, you hook up a bike pump etc and pump up the bag to increase pressure. then you leave it alone.
I helped my friend install this on his mustang and you can definitely change the rear height on the side where the bags at. I dont remember how much but you could visibly see the rear lift up or lower as you change the pressure.
After reading the instuctions for my friends install, the point of these drag launch bags is mostly for fairly open differential cars, where when the car torques on launch, one rear wheel will have less pressure on the ground and tend to spin. So you put a bag to increase suspension tension to even it out (and you adjust it so its equal on the launch)
My question was would it be possible to use these to make the rear more like stock suspension geometry (being level) while also using the benifit of the increased tension to launch.
Last edited by BigSteele; 10-19-2005 at 05:45 PM.
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10-19-2005, 05:47 PM
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I realized there is no substitution for LCA relocation brackets, I changed my question to comparing an air bag to a bigger rear sway bar. the new question is in the first post.
10-19-2005, 08:08 PM
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A rear airbag will help a lot. Air lift sells them individually, and they make a huge difference. I have a stock rear swaybar, and without my airbag i pull the front left wheel about a foot and a half. With the airbag aired up to about 18 psi it lauches nice and level.
