Issue with RAF table and STIT/LTIT
10-25-2005, 06:39 PM
#1
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Issue with RAF table and STIT/LTIT Well Ive played with this about 20 times now and never can get it right and I think I might have it nailed down to the problem.
Now I got a feeling maybe the 228/232 112lsa cam is causing the problem. Basically my spark fluctuates anywhere between 18 and 25 during idle, and I know this is because of the spark overspeed and underspeed table. Now when is happening my STIT fluctuates like crazy just during my 10min startup log of idle. I saw it just between temps of 111 and 114 move from -0.80 g/sec to +0.80 g/sec. It fluctuated like this in about 5-7 seconds.
Now when I click the spark idle control on the VCM Controls on HPtuners it holds my spark steady at 22*. At that point the STIT does not fluctuate 1.6g/sec like I saw before. It honestly sits steady.
Now my question is should I zero out the idle underspeed and overspeed under 100rpm on both tables to help keep this STIT/LTIT stead?
Because if I dont Im constantly adjusting the RAF table, I even used the new histogram in the new 2.0. One once I reflash its completely off again because it seems the spark fluctuation keeps giving me different values for my desired idle airflow. Wondering if anyone with cams like 112lsa or a bit of lope have this same problem trying to nail this down.
Thanks
Dixit
Now I got a feeling maybe the 228/232 112lsa cam is causing the problem. Basically my spark fluctuates anywhere between 18 and 25 during idle, and I know this is because of the spark overspeed and underspeed table. Now when is happening my STIT fluctuates like crazy just during my 10min startup log of idle. I saw it just between temps of 111 and 114 move from -0.80 g/sec to +0.80 g/sec. It fluctuated like this in about 5-7 seconds.
Now when I click the spark idle control on the VCM Controls on HPtuners it holds my spark steady at 22*. At that point the STIT does not fluctuate 1.6g/sec like I saw before. It honestly sits steady.
Now my question is should I zero out the idle underspeed and overspeed under 100rpm on both tables to help keep this STIT/LTIT stead?
Because if I dont Im constantly adjusting the RAF table, I even used the new histogram in the new 2.0. One once I reflash its completely off again because it seems the spark fluctuation keeps giving me different values for my desired idle airflow. Wondering if anyone with cams like 112lsa or a bit of lope have this same problem trying to nail this down.
Thanks
Dixit
10-26-2005, 08:59 AM
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Ok this morning I zeroed out the underspeed and overspeed spark tables and now the STIT was more stable during my cold startup from 40F to about 180F this morning.
Does anyone think that its a good idea if you are calibrating your RAF table that before you start you in conjunction with turning off both fans and AC also use the Spark Idle Control button on VCM controls to ON so that it temp. disables the underspeed/overspeed tables for people who have lopier cams that probably cause problems problems trying to get this table in order?
Dixit
Does anyone think that its a good idea if you are calibrating your RAF table that before you start you in conjunction with turning off both fans and AC also use the Spark Idle Control button on VCM controls to ON so that it temp. disables the underspeed/overspeed tables for people who have lopier cams that probably cause problems problems trying to get this table in order?
Dixit
10-26-2005, 02:17 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Send me your .bin or .hpt, I had a similar problem and it was within another table.
Phil
Phil
Dixit - good info. With my cam (239/251, 106) I've increased the RPM Error Max to 100.
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10-26-2005, 05:35 PM
#8
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Send me your .bin
I don't get it.
There is a free flow of info around here. You've asked many questions in the past and have had many answered.
It's a two way street - the way I see it.
10-26-2005, 07:02 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Bink
I don't get it.
There is a free flow of info around here. You've asked many questions in the past and have had many answered.
It's a two way street - the way I see it.
There is a free flow of info around here. You've asked many questions in the past and have had many answered.
It's a two way street - the way I see it.
Phil
10-26-2005, 07:18 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Are you guys busting my ***** for helping out? Thats ******* insane. I don't know what the problem is until I see it. There could be a problem with the throttle follower or the cracker, it has caused many idle headaches in the past with my car. There is no clear cut answer until I look at the problem, once we figure it out I will post it. You guys need to cut some slack around here.
Phil
Phil
10-26-2005, 09:27 PM
#12
I sent a .bin file with some different airflow, throttle cracker and follower tables that have really made big cams idle nicely in the car. I don't know if its the problem or not but why not give it a shot. Don't pay much attention to the rest of the tune. 
Phil
Phil
10-26-2005, 09:43 PM
#13
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No problem will do a compare and copy the stuff over. After dropping the overspeed/underspeed values and rescanning, I seem to get a more consistent STIT values so I may have found a solution as well. But Im definetely interested in seeing what your values will do.
Dixit
Dixit
10-27-2005, 10:50 AM
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Most definetely, I mean before I couldnt be in the 1000rpm range in 6th gear without the car wanting to surge constantly. Now with the values from Phil's BIN it drives like an auto, no surging. The all around driveability is nicer. Main thing I noticed is that Phil's values were alot less than what I had. Just wanted to know how Phil got to these, did you just keep trial and error?
I think the main thing that fixed the problem of the RAF was definetely stabilizing the spark, I highly recommend using the spark idle control feature on your VCM control to keep it constant while you dial in your RAF.
Dixit
I think the main thing that fixed the problem of the RAF was definetely stabilizing the spark, I highly recommend using the spark idle control feature on your VCM control to keep it constant while you dial in your RAF.
Dixit
10-30-2005, 06:43 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Bink
I don't get it.
There is a free flow of info around here. You've asked many questions in the past and have had many answered.
It's a two way street - the way I see it.
There is a free flow of info around here. You've asked many questions in the past and have had many answered.
It's a two way street - the way I see it.
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Are you guys busting my ***** for helping out? Thats ******* insane. I don't know what the problem is until I see it. There could be a problem with the throttle follower or the cracker, it has caused many idle headaches in the past with my car. There is no clear cut answer until I look at the problem, once we figure it out I will post it. You guys need to cut some slack around here.
Phil
Phil
Originally Posted by Phil99vette
Apparently when Dixit used my Throttle Follower, cracker and airflow tables everything cleared up. Idle is better, driveability in 6th is improved. I'll post more information on the table when I get home.
Phil
Phil
Phil - Did you think we'd forget??
Reciprocity??
Where's the info....???
10-30-2005, 08:34 AM
#18
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Bink, Just want to clear up that his settings didnt necessarily help me with my RAF issue. I just generally helped the car driveability. The RAF part was fixed by reducing the overspeed/underspeed values to about 100rpm to the Idle spark is only bouncing beween 20-22*, not 17-26* as it was before. I definetely recommend using the VCM control for turning on Idle Spark Control to just hold the spark flatline while you log the RAF values and get the get STIT/LTIT situated.
Dixit
Dixit
10-30-2005, 08:45 AM
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BTW, these are the values I used from Phil. These definetely helped the driveability with me Cam and as he said 6th gear driveability at low rpms. It idles smoother now too, which I thought was almost as smooth as I could get it with a 112lsa, It barely shakes the car now with its lope. The Idle also sticks now even if I press the clutch from say 5000rpm, it will drop straight to 900rpm and stay there, no idle hunting while moving.
Throttle Cracker Airflow
Throttle Follower Airflow Decay Gear
Throttle Follower Airflow
Throttle Cracker Airflow
Code:
0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.19141 0.26758 0.29395 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.03418 0.08984 0.13672 0.18945 0.25098 0.28711 0.29785 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.05176 0.14355 0.21191 0.25488 0.28418 0.29688 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.05664 0.16699 0.24316 0.28027 0.29492 0.29980 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.05664 0.17383 0.25195 0.28711 0.29980 0.30664 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.05664 0.17578 0.25391 0.29102 0.31055 0.33203 0.34277 0.34473 0.34473 0.34473 0.34473 0.34473 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29590 0.33105 0.37402 0.39941 0.40625 0.40723 0.40723 0.40723 0.40723 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34082 0.39941 0.43555 0.45117 0.45508 0.45508 0.45508 0.45508 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34277 0.40820 0.45996 0.49707 0.51367 0.51660 0.51660 0.51660 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41602 0.48926 0.55957 0.59766 0.60840 0.60938 0.60938 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50488 0.59766 0.64844 0.66113 0.66211 0.66211 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60742 0.66113 0.67285 0.67383 0.67383 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480
Code:
0.00098 0.00195 0.00293 0.01172 0.01758 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.00098 0.00195 0.00293 0.01172 0.01758 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.00098 0.00195 0.00293 0.01172 0.01855 0.01953 0.02148 0.02246 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.00098 0.00195 0.00488 0.01660 0.02441 0.03027 0.03613 0.04590 0.05762 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055
Code:
0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.04980 0.09961 0.29980 0.50000 0.58008 1.19922 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023
01-03-2006, 07:53 PM
#20
Originally Posted by Dixit
BTW, these are the values I used from Phil. These definetely helped the driveability with me Cam and as he said 6th gear driveability at low rpms. It idles smoother now too, which I thought was almost as smooth as I could get it with a 112lsa, It barely shakes the car now with its lope. The Idle also sticks now even if I press the clutch from say 5000rpm, it will drop straight to 900rpm and stay there, no idle hunting while moving.
Throttle Cracker Airflow
Throttle Follower Airflow Decay Gear
Throttle Follower Airflow
Throttle Cracker Airflow
Code:
0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.19141 0.26758 0.29395 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.03418 0.08984 0.13672 0.18945 0.25098 0.28711 0.29785 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.05176 0.14355 0.21191 0.25488 0.28418 0.29688 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.29980 0.05664 0.16699 0.24316 0.28027 0.29492 0.29980 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.30078 0.05664 0.17383 0.25195 0.28711 0.29980 0.30664 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.30859 0.05664 0.17578 0.25391 0.29102 0.31055 0.33203 0.34277 0.34473 0.34473 0.34473 0.34473 0.34473 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29590 0.33105 0.37402 0.39941 0.40625 0.40723 0.40723 0.40723 0.40723 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34082 0.39941 0.43555 0.45117 0.45508 0.45508 0.45508 0.45508 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34277 0.40820 0.45996 0.49707 0.51367 0.51660 0.51660 0.51660 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41602 0.48926 0.55957 0.59766 0.60840 0.60938 0.60938 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50488 0.59766 0.64844 0.66113 0.66211 0.66211 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60742 0.66113 0.67285 0.67383 0.67383 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480 0.05664 0.17578 0.25488 0.29785 0.34375 0.41895 0.50781 0.60840 0.66211 0.67383 0.67480 0.67480
Code:
0.00098 0.00195 0.00293 0.01172 0.01758 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.00098 0.00195 0.00293 0.01172 0.01758 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.01855 0.00098 0.00195 0.00293 0.01172 0.01855 0.01953 0.02148 0.02246 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.02441 0.00098 0.00195 0.00488 0.01660 0.02441 0.03027 0.03613 0.04590 0.05762 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055 0.06055
Code:
0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.04980 0.09961 0.29980 0.50000 0.58008 1.19922 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023 1.99023
Many thanks to Dixit!!
I'm Curious how many guys have tried these tables with relative sucess??