Need a cam for stalled A4, perfect DD, track numbers important
11-01-2005, 11:00 AM
#1
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Need a cam for stalled A4, perfect DD, track numbers important okay... so far it looks like im going to reach my goal of 11.99 stock motor, full weight. (im sure its pushing almost 3700lbs)
I have a 2000 Trans Am A4
Lid
LT's, Custom 3" ORY, MagnaFlow
Fuddle 4000 2.5 stall
stock 3.23's, stock TB, stock MAF, stock pulley, LS1 intake, stock showroom suspension, still have the frt. sway bar too
so far...
1.59 60'
12.2
108.8 mph
all with 275/50/15 M/T Drag Radials and stock 16" up front
now, I want a cam... I dont care about dyno numbers... only track numbers...
but one thing... it MUST be perfect for a daily driver... no cold start problems, no surge or bucking either...
im thinking a 224/228 113 or a 226/232 113.... any sugestions along these guide lines?
am I correct in my thinking that the peak TRQ should be be a couple hundred RPM's above the coverters stall speed, in my case 4000. (it actually flashes to about 4200)
I my goal is 11.5 or below in the 1/4 but PERFECT Daily Driveable
I have a 2000 Trans Am A4
Lid
LT's, Custom 3" ORY, MagnaFlow
Fuddle 4000 2.5 stall
stock 3.23's, stock TB, stock MAF, stock pulley, LS1 intake, stock showroom suspension, still have the frt. sway bar too
so far...
1.59 60'
12.2
108.8 mph
all with 275/50/15 M/T Drag Radials and stock 16" up front
now, I want a cam... I dont care about dyno numbers... only track numbers...
but one thing... it MUST be perfect for a daily driver... no cold start problems, no surge or bucking either...
im thinking a 224/228 113 or a 226/232 113.... any sugestions along these guide lines?
am I correct in my thinking that the peak TRQ should be be a couple hundred RPM's above the coverters stall speed, in my case 4000. (it actually flashes to about 4200)
I my goal is 11.5 or below in the 1/4 but PERFECT Daily Driveable
11-01-2005, 12:47 PM
#4
You have stock 3.23s so you need lots of tq off the line and you will not cross the finish line at a very high rpm. Therefore I'd stay away from cams requiring shift points over 6500. It looks like you are willing to consider cams with 0 to 4* overlap. I'd stay with a smaller duration and low LSA cam and keep the power where you can use it:
224/224 110 110
228/224 111 109
Both of those cams have 4* overlap. You can take the LSA up 1* if you want it to idle a little better (same ICL).
224/224 110 110
228/224 111 109
Both of those cams have 4* overlap. You can take the LSA up 1* if you want it to idle a little better (same ICL).
11-01-2005, 12:57 PM
#5
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks Ragtop...
those cams are good with a 4000 stall? Are they good for a DD. no start up issues? also, will they net me the gain im after... 11.5 or lower ET's?
so the 224/228 on a 113 is not a good choice?
those cams are good with a 4000 stall? Are they good for a DD. no start up issues? also, will they net me the gain im after... 11.5 or lower ET's?
so the 224/228 on a 113 is not a good choice?
11-01-2005, 03:02 PM
#6
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Goshen,In.
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
You have stock 3.23s so you need lots of tq off the line and you will not cross the finish line at a very high rpm. Therefore I'd stay away from cams requiring shift points over 6500. It looks like you are willing to consider cams with 0 to 4* overlap. I'd stay with a smaller duration and low LSA cam and keep the power where you can use it:
224/224 110 110
228/224 111 109
Both of those cams have 4* overlap. You can take the LSA up 1* if you want it to idle a little better (same ICL).
224/224 110 110
228/224 111 109
Both of those cams have 4* overlap. You can take the LSA up 1* if you want it to idle a little better (same ICL).
11-01-2005, 03:18 PM
#7
Yes they will be good with a 4000 stall.
Any cam in the size you are looking at will need tuning to achieve the street manners expected in a DD.
Your 224/228 113 will also work. You didn't specify the advance, but lets assume 2* for an ICL of 111. The tradeoff is the cams I suggested will be a little stronger in the midrange, but your 224/228 will make a bit more power above 6200 or so. In going down the 1320, you'll spend a lot more time in the midrange and I think you'll be quicker by giving up some top end in exchange for power between 4000 - 5800 rpm. This is the rpm range during launch that provides the hit to your converter and during your shift extensions after the 1-2 upshift and the 2-3 upshift. In fact all of your time in 3rd gear will be below 6000 rpm riding the converter's shift extension.
Any cam in the size you are looking at will need tuning to achieve the street manners expected in a DD.
Your 224/228 113 will also work. You didn't specify the advance, but lets assume 2* for an ICL of 111. The tradeoff is the cams I suggested will be a little stronger in the midrange, but your 224/228 will make a bit more power above 6200 or so. In going down the 1320, you'll spend a lot more time in the midrange and I think you'll be quicker by giving up some top end in exchange for power between 4000 - 5800 rpm. This is the rpm range during launch that provides the hit to your converter and during your shift extensions after the 1-2 upshift and the 2-3 upshift. In fact all of your time in 3rd gear will be below 6000 rpm riding the converter's shift extension.
Trending Topics
11-01-2005, 03:34 PM
#8
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
Yes they will be good with a 4000 stall.
Any cam in the size you are looking at will need tuning to achieve the street manners expected in a DD.
Your 224/228 113 will also work. You didn't specify the advance, but lets assume 2* for an ICL of 111. The tradeoff is the cams I suggested will be a little stronger in the midrange, but your 224/228 will make a bit more power above 6200 or so. In going down the 1320, you'll spend a lot more time in the midrange and I think you'll be quicker by giving up some top end in exchange for power between 4000 - 5800 rpm. This is the rpm range during launch that provides the hit to your converter and during your shift extensions after the 1-2 upshift and the 2-3 upshift. In fact all of your time in 3rd gear will be below 6000 rpm riding the converter's shift extension.
Any cam in the size you are looking at will need tuning to achieve the street manners expected in a DD.
Your 224/228 113 will also work. You didn't specify the advance, but lets assume 2* for an ICL of 111. The tradeoff is the cams I suggested will be a little stronger in the midrange, but your 224/228 will make a bit more power above 6200 or so. In going down the 1320, you'll spend a lot more time in the midrange and I think you'll be quicker by giving up some top end in exchange for power between 4000 - 5800 rpm. This is the rpm range during launch that provides the hit to your converter and during your shift extensions after the 1-2 upshift and the 2-3 upshift. In fact all of your time in 3rd gear will be below 6000 rpm riding the converter's shift extension.
example, if I shift at 6400-6500, wouldnt the ext. go up to like 5500-5800?
also, the sec. cam you recommended... wouldnt the higher intake duration actually loose some trq??
forgive me, im trying to figure this out.
a have a great tuner, so got the tune taken care of
Last edited by spec_j; 11-01-2005 at 03:50 PM.
11-01-2005, 04:22 PM
#9
Moving from a stock cam, the shift extension will be influenced more by the increase in torque than by raising your shift point. There is such a big drop in gear ratios that going from 6200 to 6500 would have maybe a 100 rpm effect on extension. The increase in TQ from the cam will add 200 rpm, maybe as much as 300 rpm. I assumed that with a cam you'll be using an extension of 5500 - 5800.
The second choice will give up a bit below 4000 rpm but should add a little in the 5500 - 6500 rpm compared to the first cam. If you got a good tuner, go wild and put the 228/224 on a 110 with 1 or 2 degrees advance
The second choice will give up a bit below 4000 rpm but should add a little in the 5500 - 6500 rpm compared to the first cam. If you got a good tuner, go wild and put the 228/224 on a 110 with 1 or 2 degrees advance
11-01-2005, 04:39 PM
#10
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
The second choice will give up a bit below 4000 rpm but should add a little in the 5500 - 6500 rpm compared to the first cam. If you got a good tuner, go wild and put the 228/224 on a 110 with 1 or 2 degrees advance
11-01-2005, 07:02 PM
#11
The start up and surging are curable in the tune. I'd talk with your tuner and pick the most aggressive cam he feels he can tune.
I use a 228/224 113 so I'm a bit partial to the reverse split, but I also have a good flowing exhaust. If I were to put another cam in the car, I'd probably go with the 228/224 on a 111 or 110.
I use a 228/224 113 so I'm a bit partial to the reverse split, but I also have a good flowing exhaust. If I were to put another cam in the car, I'd probably go with the 228/224 on a 111 or 110.
11-02-2005, 12:41 PM
#15
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
108 ICL
or should i go with a 110+0??
predator... COMBO King
.... you think that will work for me.... my goals are perfect DD, no startup or surging/bucking at low rpm's... yet net me a 11.5 or lower??
11-03-2005, 08:40 AM
#20
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by spec_j
would that provide me with a good hit off my 4K stall, and make good power in my shift extensions??
or should i go with a 110+0??
predator... COMBO King .... you think that will work for me.... my goals are perfect DD, no startup or surging/bucking at low rpm's... yet net me a 11.5 or lower??
or should i go with a 110+0??
predator... COMBO King
.... you think that will work for me.... my goals are perfect DD, no startup or surging/bucking at low rpm's... yet net me a 11.5 or lower??As for driving manners, that will all depend on the tuner.