Bellhousing/Torque Converter question.
11-20-2005, 02:50 PM
#1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bellhousing/Torque Converter question. I am confused.
I have a bit of a mix and match...
I have a Miata with an LS6 and a 4L60E engine. The transmission was from a 2000 Truck (Tahoe). It didn't come with the torque converter so I used a B29 converter and redrilled the flexplate to match it. That worked fine for a quite a while. The B29 has a pretty early stall and I looked for a converter for a Camaro.
I recently ended up with two other torque converters specifically designed for a late model camaro/LS1 (One is a Stock Rebuild), the other a TCI high Stall.
Both of these torque converters line up just fine with the original holes of the flexplate, but the bell housing seemed to be 1/2" too shallow to accept either of the torque converters.
I ASSUMED that the bellhousing for the truck (2000 tahoo) that the transmission came off of, was more shallow than the one for the Camaro, and I went ahead and machined a spacer (a FULL DAY OF MACHINING) to give me more room and installed the high stall converter I got (camaro).
Everything seemed to fit just fine, and I installed the transmission back into the car only to find that I am no longer getting power to the wheels.
I'm confused...
1. Did I screw up? Did I not need the spacer? Perhaps I just didn't wiggle the torque converter enough and it could have gone deeper? I sure thought that I did, I fought with it for 5 minutes trying to get it to go further back...
2. Is there a difference in Bellhousings for a truck vs an F-body?
3. Does anyone know the part number for a Camaro Bellhousing?
4. Does anyone know the part number for a Tahoe Bellhousing?
So now I have a spacer that didn't do anything for me. Even if there is a difference in Bell Housings, my spacer (1/2") should have accomplished the same thing...
Anyone that can shed any light on this PLEASE DO SO.
Thanks,
Sam
I have a bit of a mix and match...
I have a Miata with an LS6 and a 4L60E engine. The transmission was from a 2000 Truck (Tahoe). It didn't come with the torque converter so I used a B29 converter and redrilled the flexplate to match it. That worked fine for a quite a while. The B29 has a pretty early stall and I looked for a converter for a Camaro.
I recently ended up with two other torque converters specifically designed for a late model camaro/LS1 (One is a Stock Rebuild), the other a TCI high Stall.
Both of these torque converters line up just fine with the original holes of the flexplate, but the bell housing seemed to be 1/2" too shallow to accept either of the torque converters.
I ASSUMED that the bellhousing for the truck (2000 tahoo) that the transmission came off of, was more shallow than the one for the Camaro, and I went ahead and machined a spacer (a FULL DAY OF MACHINING) to give me more room and installed the high stall converter I got (camaro).
Everything seemed to fit just fine, and I installed the transmission back into the car only to find that I am no longer getting power to the wheels.
I'm confused...
1. Did I screw up? Did I not need the spacer? Perhaps I just didn't wiggle the torque converter enough and it could have gone deeper? I sure thought that I did, I fought with it for 5 minutes trying to get it to go further back...
2. Is there a difference in Bellhousings for a truck vs an F-body?
3. Does anyone know the part number for a Camaro Bellhousing?
4. Does anyone know the part number for a Tahoe Bellhousing?
So now I have a spacer that didn't do anything for me. Even if there is a difference in Bell Housings, my spacer (1/2") should have accomplished the same thing...
Anyone that can shed any light on this PLEASE DO SO.
Thanks,
Sam
11-20-2005, 05:01 PM
#3
I would look into the transmission build date. The 2000 model year trucks were a changeover year. You can have a 2000 with an LSX engine and a 2000 with a vortec engine.
When working on these you need to look at the build date of the parts and not the model year of the vehicle.
I'm not positive on the locations of the date on the transmission but if you look on it you will find casting clocks on every part. Easiest casting clock to find is in the center of the servo cover, assuming it hasn't been changed out.
It will say 99 or 00.
Also the '99 should have a pilot tip on the end of the input shaft. A 2000 should have splines up to the end.
You can bolt an old converter and trans up to an LS6 but the crank pilot will not be long enough. If you don't notice it will work, usually it will vibrate because it will be centered on the bolts only.
If you put an LS1 converter on an old trans it will seem like the bellhousing is too shallow. I would guess, never tried it.
When working on these you need to look at the build date of the parts and not the model year of the vehicle.
I'm not positive on the locations of the date on the transmission but if you look on it you will find casting clocks on every part. Easiest casting clock to find is in the center of the servo cover, assuming it hasn't been changed out.
It will say 99 or 00.
Also the '99 should have a pilot tip on the end of the input shaft. A 2000 should have splines up to the end.
You can bolt an old converter and trans up to an LS6 but the crank pilot will not be long enough. If you don't notice it will work, usually it will vibrate because it will be centered on the bolts only.
If you put an LS1 converter on an old trans it will seem like the bellhousing is too shallow. I would guess, never tried it.
11-20-2005, 05:48 PM
#4
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for replying.
I examined my transmission and found that the input shaft has a pilot on it. So I guess that means its from an earlier truck.
My bell housing part number is 21200877. Not all of the bolts align with the LS6 but enough do that I wasn't too worried about it.
After some searching on the web, I found that the part number for the camaro bell housing is 21206593. I am guessing that their depth is the same and the difference is in the bolt pattern between a vortech engine and the LSx (LM7-LQx) engines?
So I guess the question is (and I think I know the answer) can this earlier transmission work with the LSx torque converters? It is still possible that I did something wrong in the transmission that caused it to do absolutely nothing (no power to the wheels), but I am begining to suspect that I have an incompatability between transmission input shaft and torque converter.
You wrote: "If you put an LS1 converter on an old trans it will seem like the bellhousing is too shallow. I would guess, never tried it."
Why? That is in fact the case, but I don't understand why? The torque converter goes in within a 1/4" of the rear of the housing. There is no room for it to go any further... So how can the housings not be different in lenght? If they are different in length, why didn't my spacer work? I spent two full days machining a spacer to within .001 tolerance and it would be nice to know the answer.
Thanks,
Sam
I examined my transmission and found that the input shaft has a pilot on it. So I guess that means its from an earlier truck.
My bell housing part number is 21200877. Not all of the bolts align with the LS6 but enough do that I wasn't too worried about it.
After some searching on the web, I found that the part number for the camaro bell housing is 21206593. I am guessing that their depth is the same and the difference is in the bolt pattern between a vortech engine and the LSx (LM7-LQx) engines?
So I guess the question is (and I think I know the answer) can this earlier transmission work with the LSx torque converters? It is still possible that I did something wrong in the transmission that caused it to do absolutely nothing (no power to the wheels), but I am begining to suspect that I have an incompatability between transmission input shaft and torque converter.
You wrote: "If you put an LS1 converter on an old trans it will seem like the bellhousing is too shallow. I would guess, never tried it."
Why? That is in fact the case, but I don't understand why? The torque converter goes in within a 1/4" of the rear of the housing. There is no room for it to go any further... So how can the housings not be different in lenght? If they are different in length, why didn't my spacer work? I spent two full days machining a spacer to within .001 tolerance and it would be nice to know the answer.
Thanks,
Sam
11-20-2005, 06:02 PM
#5
The problem is in the converters. If your transmission has a smooth pilot with an o-ring on it then no LS1 converter is going to work on it.
Thats the problem.
To solve it you need to get a converter for a '97 and earlier 4L60E or 4L60, then use a '98 flexplate with a spacer for the front converter pilot.
OR get a LS1 input drum/shaft, maybe pump stator and use your LS1 converters.
The reason your set up isn't working is because the LS1 converter is made for a larger input shaft, so your input is going into the converter but not engaging because the shaft is too small. Plus it's sticking out too far because the LS1 input shaft is slightly shorter.
Thats the problem.
To solve it you need to get a converter for a '97 and earlier 4L60E or 4L60, then use a '98 flexplate with a spacer for the front converter pilot.
OR get a LS1 input drum/shaft, maybe pump stator and use your LS1 converters.
The reason your set up isn't working is because the LS1 converter is made for a larger input shaft, so your input is going into the converter but not engaging because the shaft is too small. Plus it's sticking out too far because the LS1 input shaft is slightly shorter.
Trending Topics
11-20-2005, 06:20 PM
#9
Launching!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To replace the input shaft, requires major dissasembly of the transmission. You will also need to replace the Stator Support in the pump and the bellhousing to make it work. Let me know if I can help.
11-20-2005, 08:21 PM
#10
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"To replace the input shaft, requires major dissasembly of the transmission. You will also need to replace the Stator Support in the pump and the bellhousing to make it work."
I've torn this transmission down at least a half a dozen time. I've also rebuilt my brother's 700R4 (which is similar). I'm getting pretty good at it. I have a lift and was able to pull it out of my car in less than an hour and a half after my first post today.
Tomorrow, I will price a new input shaft and stator support.
I didn't realize there were so many differences in 4L60E's and their converters.
Again, thanks to both of you. I really appreciate this.
Sam
I've torn this transmission down at least a half a dozen time. I've also rebuilt my brother's 700R4 (which is similar). I'm getting pretty good at it. I have a lift and was able to pull it out of my car in less than an hour and a half after my first post today.
Tomorrow, I will price a new input shaft and stator support.
I didn't realize there were so many differences in 4L60E's and their converters.
Again, thanks to both of you. I really appreciate this.
Sam
11-20-2005, 08:32 PM
#11
Launching!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My bad, didn't mean to assume. Make sure your parts are specifically for use with a 300mm torque converter. The pump will need to be dissasembled and you will have to remove the three Torx bits from the back of the pump, then press out the old shaft and press the new one in. You will also have to transfer all of your old parts from the old input housing to the new, which I'm sure you knew, just wanted to remind you not to forget the green O-ring at the very bottom, its often overlooked if the new housing doesn't come with one.
