ninobrn99

iTrader: (8)

How do I use the timing histogram in 2.0 to help me out in the editor? is it as simple as copy and paste or is there more to it than just that? For instance:Lets say that at 2200rpm@.52 g/cyl's Im commanding 24 degrees of timing, but the effective (what the car is actually using) is 22 according to the histogram. What do i do with that?

ninobrn99

iTrader: (8)

these dont relate to the example above, but lets just say that for argument sake, the knock is consistent in these areas with lower and higher timing:

bshell

iTrader: (24)

Are you running a 99 os? If so, are the high and low octane tables equal? If not, the pcm could be pulling timing by weighting the low table at that point. If the tables are equal then I would look at the spark correction tables in the editor to see if its pulling timing based on IAT (most likely) or ECT. Also note how long you were at 2200, .52 (cell counts). If you were accelerating / decelerating through 2200rpm, the 22* you see could be the pcm blending the timing with the next cell. Maybe try to find the 2200, .52 spot via the chart in the scanner to get a clearer picture of the overall parameters at that instant. Are you trying to add part throttle timing, or just related the histo to the timing tables?

When I add timing, I start at 4000, .64 and go up from there. FWIW, this ensures that I am only adding timing at or close to WOT. The rest of the table I've left stock.

You can also add timing at WOT based on afr, but I haven't tried that yet.

edit:
Just saw your screenshots. Could it be tip in knock? If the kr is consistant regardless of where the advance is, maybe the knock sensors are being too aggressive at throttle tip in.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

you need to look at the Knock Retard histogram...

it is then a simple copy and paste add function...

I sugest you filter out no knock by using the plot filtering and adding
[SENS.111]>0

this will make it so only knock shows up..and you will have an accurate amount to reduce by...without a bunch of 0's changing teh average to a lower #

your High and Low spark trables should be different when your tune is complete...
a common practice is to tune by copy the high to the low(for reasons that in SD while tuning the VE it only uses teh Low octane table)
when done you can copy this final tabel to teh high octane and subtract 4 from teh entire table for low octane safety(bad gas...something else causeing knock...whatever)
you can also log Knock lear facto to see where you lye in the tables
IF I remember right..higher kock learn # means more towards low octane...
in between is a blend...
0 is high octane ...1 is low octane 0.5 is 50% of both .. 0.7 is 70% towards low octane..and so forth...

I also have adopoted takin teh theoretical MAX timing table...subtracting 8* from it .... and using it for high octane
it takes a little magic copy and paste 1 row at a time as not all teh #'s match...but it works well....
usually you will see just a knock of .5 or 1* max...
usualy you have to do a little reduction for the High load low rpm(6th gear low speed too lazy to shift) bacuase it wont want much timing there...but heres my tables

also this is a common paractice in the Ford tuning market...one of the first things for guys do as I have been told


also I'm running a 1 bar SD enhancement..so both my high and low octane tables are working in SD...
this filtered spark knock was from the 1st log after pasting the max torque table minus 8* into my spark tables

ninobrn99

iTrader: (8)

im sorry guys, but that just went way over my head. I think i added the [sens.111]>0 to my histo. Scott, that first table: Max toque vs rpm vs g/cyl, what is that? i dont have the slightest idea how to even being to mess with it. I also cant find the spark editor for rpm or ect's. can you all get a little more specific for me please

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I have a baby in my arms right now...but I will post pretty elaborately when mama is done eating dinner and she can grab him back for a while...its such a joy holding my 3month old

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Screw your family...get in here and help us!!!!!

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Oh, and it looks like you only subtracted 4* from your theoretical max table to get your high octane table. Was the 8* a typo?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

oops..sorry...mean 8* from low
4 from high..yes..typo...LOL

working on your details now

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

ok...here we go...

so teh MAx torque table is a table that is not supposed to be changed....
it is used in sevearl pcm calculations and it could screw up a lot if you mess wit it directly...
but it is a calculated reference from the manufacturer.and some poor employee with an engine dyno had to figure it out....

so...with that said....
I'll use a 99 M6 V8 F-body for your sake Nino

attatched # 1
in HPTuners >Engine>Spark Control....towards the lower right side of the table
General Max Torque Timing

attatched # 2
That table

attatched # 3
teh high octane table ... same bin file

as you can see the #'s are not on the same axis....

later years they fixed this....its still not a direct copy and paste cause the #'s arent the same...but close

so what I would do is use excel to copy 1 table and copy,paste special, transpose... so it reads the right #'s on teh right axis..or you can just copy and paste 1 by one...but that would take a while

heres the excel of that one transposed
http://www.audiohelix.com/ls1tech/99...transposed.xls

now its a matter of copying and pasting the correct columns to teh right spots...and then systematically interpolating between the data

attatchment # 4
which you can see the copy and paste

Attatchment # 5
which you can see it after using the interpolation(sideways only)
and the highest g/cyl column pasted on the remaining tables

when done subtract whatever you need to get your WOT max timing in line

in my case I have a 2000 camaro so I subtracted 4 to get most of my WOT at 27*/28*
in your case with a 99 I would sugest subtracting 2* to get you to the same basic starting point(and BTW...most LS1's make best power between 26*-28* at WOT)
this should be an ENTIRE table subtarct..not just the WOT cells

then copy and paste to the low octane table and subtract 4* from it(meaning your fist table -2*...then another -4* for low octane)

if you are going tunig..then do teh standard High octane to low octane copy...do your normal tuning..removing any knock you might get(most of it if any will happen down low in the Low RPM high load areas)...
continue until you have all knock removed and all your tuning done..do the high to low minus 4* move and call it good

any questions??

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...interesting. My 2002 Max Torque Timing Table has a few dips in it that your 2000 table doesn't. There are also areas of it that are lower than my current high octane timing table. I'm gonna have to sit in front of my comp for a while and see what I can do.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

that table is a 99 table...I used 99 for the sake of nino...

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Yeah, I caught that part, but even the table above that in post #4 has higher values than mine.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

2000's and 2002's are different...
I have a 2000 car with a 2002 OS on it..so I have ported ALL of my 2000 tables across to the 2002 OS.....

just copying in this table to the timing makes a dfinate difference you can feel...
I did an A/B with Stock vs New..and Stock feels like a turd...New has all sorts of pep

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

But I'm guessing that since mine is a 2002, I shouldn't try using your 2000 table since the intakes, heads, and some other random odds and ends were different?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

correct..use a 2002 table if you have a 2002 engine

all of this changes when yo ustart to add other parts....
but for the most part its close..you will find out that with a cam that you usually just need to pull a little timing down low rpm and high load again as the overlap just doesnt want a whole lot of timing down there...

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Sounds good...I'll give it a shot. But I think I'll be running less timing if I do this...

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

that is possible...as this is just a starting point....
if you want to add more timing then go ahead....
but what I noticed is that this helped out part throtte immensly
and for me...my experience has been around 27* seems to be a good # on an LS1

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

27* with part throttle, or WOT?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

27* WOT

I have many tunes that I have done that with 27*-28* they made the most power and would show no increase when we added more timing
this is not to say that it would be the same for every car....but its worked this way for me