the powers of a professional dyno tune+big cam
12-09-2005, 11:36 AM
#1
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the powers of a professional dyno tune+big cam if i were to put a large cam(MS3, G5X3, or the likes) in my car and got a dyno tune from a reputable shop like Speed inc. would the car still run great? I ask this because i am interested in doing this to the camaro...but a horrible idle(serging dropping idle, etc.) is not going to work for me. and bucking is definately not going to work.
I had bad 02 sensors and i got horrible serging and an idle that would drop to like 4-500 rpm and i hated every second of driving my car. now that i have brand new o2s the car runs great, and i do not want to go back to hating my car...Fast or not.
Louie
I had bad 02 sensors and i got horrible serging and an idle that would drop to like 4-500 rpm and i hated every second of driving my car. now that i have brand new o2s the car runs great, and i do not want to go back to hating my car...Fast or not.
Louie
12-09-2005, 12:11 PM
#2
I cant speak for speed inc but most cams the size that your talking about are going to leave you with at least some driveability issues and will definitly not drive like stock. If your looking for a cam in a daily driver where you actually drive the car at least 10 miles each way to and from work or what have you I'd say go smaller if your getting a shop to tune you. Or for that matter ask the shop what cam they would choose for your application rather then just picking the biggest possible cam for your application and then saying "why cant you get this to (plug in issues here)" tuners can only do so much with the car you bring them in the amount of time they can actually work on it and still make money doing so.
12-09-2005, 12:36 PM
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Try a Futral Motorsports F10 Cam on 114 LSA. This cam has ZERO drivability problems and still makes great power. I put down 417RWP and 400RWTQ with it and do not have any drivability issues (surging, bucking, erratic idle, etc). I can crank my car up in 30 degree weather, and instantly start driving it without any surging. Try that with a huge cam = stalling out or not idling at all for a minute.
F10 - 228/228 .575 .575 114 +4
F10 - 228/228 .575 .575 114 +4
12-09-2005, 12:37 PM
#5
Originally Posted by bmfcamaro
TR 224 is sweet. no torque loss. pulls and pulls. i thin k you should look at your options a bit more.
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12-09-2005, 01:39 PM
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I disagree with most of the above replies. The car CAN drive near-stock and have a big cam - the driveability issues are solely in the hands of the tuner. Pick a good one, and make it clear that you're looking for not only big power, but great driveability. It can (and has) been done!
I have a BIG cam (Texas Speed Magic Stick (237/242, .603"/.609", 113 LSA)) and I immediately took the car to Jeff Creech at CAM in Durham, NC. It drives 99% like stock. I have no surge issues, I have no bucking. The only noticeable difference is a loss in off-idle torque and a HUGE increase in power up to 7000rpms.
If you go with a big cam, get a 4.10 gear at the same time. That is all my car is lacking from driving 100% like stock.
With a good tune, GREAT driveability is possible, even with a BIG cam.
I have a BIG cam (Texas Speed Magic Stick (237/242, .603"/.609", 113 LSA)) and I immediately took the car to Jeff Creech at CAM in Durham, NC. It drives 99% like stock. I have no surge issues, I have no bucking. The only noticeable difference is a loss in off-idle torque and a HUGE increase in power up to 7000rpms.
If you go with a big cam, get a 4.10 gear at the same time. That is all my car is lacking from driving 100% like stock.
With a good tune, GREAT driveability is possible, even with a BIG cam.
12-09-2005, 01:44 PM
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To reassure you, look for a tuner that makes his efforts clear BEFORE you take your car to him. To quote Carolina Auto Master's website: They weren't kidding. I couldn't be happier with my tune.
Our Specialty
Is computer tuning of modern GM performance cars and trucks, not only optimizing for maximum safe power, but also for as near stock drivability as possible. Typical handheld computer reprogrammers only scratch the surface of the parameters that need to be changed to truly optimize the performance of your vehicle. If all you require is speedometer calibration, rev limiter changes, fan temp control and automatic transmission shift firmness, then a handheld programmer might be right for you. Other people have used mail order computer tuners, and while this is a lot closer to ideal, every car is different, and programming your car based on what a similar car wanted does not yield ideal results.
The best computer tuning requires having the car in front of the tuner, and making the changes based on what that vehicle wants, not what a similar car wanted. To make up for the production variations, mail order tuners will err on the side of tremendous safety, so much so that a great deal of safe power is left on the table. At Carolina Auto Masters, we believe there's no substitute for having the vehicle in question in front of you to tune it.
The best computer tuning also requires experimentation and engineering, many tuners do not own a chassis dyno and other monitoring hardware, and of those that do, many do not take the time to experiment and learn with their expensive tools. At Carolina Auto Masters, we take the time to experiment with new ideas, and test new modifications. We can then apply that knowledge to help you reach your performance goals.
The best computer tuning does not only address wide open throttle, it addresses every behavior of the vehicle from the time the engine is started until the key is removed from the ignition. With a large performance camshaft you do not have to have a gas smell at idle, a car that knocks off when you turn on the AC at a stoplight, that won't start when it's hot or cold, or that has so much cam surge that you never want to drive under 2000 rpms. Carolina Auto Masters specializes in drivability as well wide open tuning. Our vehicles have "Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde" characteristics: they idle and cruise like Dr. Jeckel and then when you press on the loud pedal, they become Mr. Hyde!
Is computer tuning of modern GM performance cars and trucks, not only optimizing for maximum safe power, but also for as near stock drivability as possible. Typical handheld computer reprogrammers only scratch the surface of the parameters that need to be changed to truly optimize the performance of your vehicle. If all you require is speedometer calibration, rev limiter changes, fan temp control and automatic transmission shift firmness, then a handheld programmer might be right for you. Other people have used mail order computer tuners, and while this is a lot closer to ideal, every car is different, and programming your car based on what a similar car wanted does not yield ideal results.
The best computer tuning requires having the car in front of the tuner, and making the changes based on what that vehicle wants, not what a similar car wanted. To make up for the production variations, mail order tuners will err on the side of tremendous safety, so much so that a great deal of safe power is left on the table. At Carolina Auto Masters, we believe there's no substitute for having the vehicle in question in front of you to tune it.
The best computer tuning also requires experimentation and engineering, many tuners do not own a chassis dyno and other monitoring hardware, and of those that do, many do not take the time to experiment and learn with their expensive tools. At Carolina Auto Masters, we take the time to experiment with new ideas, and test new modifications. We can then apply that knowledge to help you reach your performance goals.
The best computer tuning does not only address wide open throttle, it addresses every behavior of the vehicle from the time the engine is started until the key is removed from the ignition. With a large performance camshaft you do not have to have a gas smell at idle, a car that knocks off when you turn on the AC at a stoplight, that won't start when it's hot or cold, or that has so much cam surge that you never want to drive under 2000 rpms. Carolina Auto Masters specializes in drivability as well wide open tuning. Our vehicles have "Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde" characteristics: they idle and cruise like Dr. Jeckel and then when you press on the loud pedal, they become Mr. Hyde!
12-09-2005, 01:52 PM
#10
is it me or is 380/355 low for a very large cam with bolt ons? I've seen alot of cam only 224 cams make over 400 rwhp...your 237/242 cam barely makes 380 though? Have you ever run it at the track? Possible wrong grind maybe? Not bashing but something doesnt add up in my mind.
Last edited by foff667; 12-09-2005 at 02:00 PM.
12-09-2005, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by foff667
is it me or is 380/355 low for a very large cam with bolt ons? I've seen alot of cam only 224 cams make over 400 rwhp...your 237/242 cam barely makes 380 though? Have you ever run it at the track? Possible wrong grind maybe? Not bashing but something doesnt add up in my mind.
12-09-2005, 11:33 PM
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i appreciate all the input, but i have the mindset right now to go big or go elsewhere...that being said i really want a turbo(perfect idle and sick power) however i am not looking to spend nearly that much money.
for a cam i dont want to leave anything on the table...i am just kind of wierd like that. it may not be the best, or right, way to be but i dont think itll change anytime soon.
once again thanks for the input and i will have to look around and talk to people and maybe i can get what i want...maybe not.
the most important thing for me is still having a car that i can go out in and be extremely fast. if that wont work i will probobly end up with a bimmer or something of the sort.
Thanks fellas
Louie
for a cam i dont want to leave anything on the table...i am just kind of wierd like that. it may not be the best, or right, way to be but i dont think itll change anytime soon.
once again thanks for the input and i will have to look around and talk to people and maybe i can get what i want...maybe not.
the most important thing for me is still having a car that i can go out in and be extremely fast. if that wont work i will probobly end up with a bimmer or something of the sort.
Thanks fellas
Louie
12-10-2005, 12:00 AM
#14
Originally Posted by JoeyAnderson
I disagree with most of the above replies. The car CAN drive near-stock and have a big cam - the driveability issues are solely in the hands of the tuner. Pick a good one, and make it clear that you're looking for not only big power, but great driveability. It can (and has) been done!
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Exactly. People think of tuning as only improving WOT performace, however more can be gained in driveability than can ever be gained with WOT tuning. I had a guy the other day say he removed a large cam b/c nobody could get it to idle. If I had met him before the mess I could of had it running perfect for him. Anybody can add timing and pull fuel but it takes a lot of knowledge and experience to tune for driveability. Most dyno shops avoid it because a large displacement heads cam car can take hours of drive time to nail down a streetable tune.
I have a G5x4 car that could easily be daily driven, no starting, idling, surging issues. Although a 4900 rpm stall isn't all that friendly. lol
