Drag Racing Tech - Search is down: What is an Edelbrock Victor Jr worth over a Fast 90/90?

Going 13:1 compression, ETP 225 heads and T-Rex or larger cam on a forged 347. TH350, 12 bolt, 4.10 gears, full suspension. What would the Carb style intake with a 1000 CFM TB be worth over a ported Fast 90/90?

No Internet numbers please.

I'd be intrested in this as well.. maybe save me the trouble and skip the 90/90 and go strait for the gusto.

i would like to know this also

Carb style intakes are for 7,000+ rpm set ups.

wow, that's probably the most vague answer ever given to any question asked.

I will end up spinning over 7K. Sooooo what does it mean now that we have the RPM range cleared up?

I don't believe for 1 second that it won't work unless you are spinning over 7000 prm. I do believe that under 3000, it will be a little doggy, but only for 7000+, that's kinda bogus.

its still kinda new and really hasn't been fully tested (at least at the track)

I've done some digging and it appears to be a slight/modest gain over LSX at 6K and up. It also appears to lose some to the LSX under 4400.

its definately a neat piece

http://home.comcast.net/~tfranklin5580/victor1.jpg

Interesting post.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311005

Keep in mind it was over a LS6 with stock TB. Probably would've seen 30 hp going to a Fast 90/90 (I gained 20 going LSX 90/90 over a LS6/ported stock TB)

One could also question the state of tune with the LS6 setup before too...

O.K., this is all fine on a stock CI motor. What about 400+ CI setup? I'm more intrested to see what it would do on say a 427 or more CI motor.

Guess what I'm trying to get at is I'm running a h/c setup now with a ported tb and a ls6 intake. I was thinking about going ot a fast 90/90 setup next summer... but I know that once I have my chassis working to it's max with the power I have now, I'm gonna start building a big CI motor.. and want whatever intake I am currnetly running to go to the next setup. I expect anything more then a 90/90 to lose somethign on the low end of a 346, but on a 427+ motor, (possibly even more) what would the results be like? I know that's gotta outflow a 90/90, just wondering how much.. and would it be worth it to hold off on a swap until I build the new motor, or do the swap to this style on a stock CI?

unless you are going for truly max effort high-revving 346 (serious head flow and large cam), it probably isn't right for you.

Remember too, getting it to fit in the confines of the engine bay and under the hood can be an issue.

unless you are going for truly max effort high-revving 346 (serious head flow and large cam), it probably isn't right for you.

Remember too, getting it to fit in the confines of the engine bay and under the hood can be an issue.

At 13:1 compression and ETP225 heads with a T-Rex or larger cam it will not be a daily driver. This is being built with the drivability needs of: get from the staging lanes back to the trailer without killing the engine.

It will be a max effort setup and I have a cowl hood for most of the clearance issues.

I am trying to figure out if the HP and speed increase is there.

At 13:1 compression and ETP225 heads with a T-Rex or larger cam it will not be a daily driver. This is being built with the drivability needs of: get from the staging lanes back to the trailer without killing the engine.

It will be a max effort setup and I have a cowl hood for most of the clearance issues.

I am trying to figure out if the HP and speed increase is there.

My last comment was directed at JL...

Yeah, I replied to your PM.

pulled this from another post, I don't think your going to find any better info than this at this point.

Originally Posted by 427
Ran one of our 402 crate engines with a LS2 intake and 90mm throttlebody. It had dyno headers with bullet mufflers. BS3 control.
Testing corrected to SAE OE standard. (same as Z06 505hp engine)
Dart head is 2.05 valve



Dart 225 w/LS2 intake--Dart head w/ Eldebrock intake
rpm--tq---hp---tq---hp
3000-428-244--387-221
3500-412-275--392-261
4000-465-354--444-338
4500-487-417--487-417
5000-490-467--501-476
5500-473-496--484-507
6000-446-510--454-519
6100-440-511--448-521
6200-433-512--443-523
6300-425-510--435-523
6400-417-508--426-520

We will do some mild port changes to see how they respond.
Dart head as tested: $1,630.50 retail,ready to install.

Kurt

so on a 402 the vic was worth about 10rwhp over a LS2 intake from 5000 up and loses about 20rwtq down low

unfortunately that stops at 6400 rpm :(

I'm not really planning on doing any max effort stock CI setup at this point. What I am tryting to determine is if the single plane intake is worth anything on a stock motor.. which it looks as if it's not really. I'm more intrested in what the results would be on a 427 or bigger motor with heads and cam enough to really feed it, what would the gains vs. losses be vs a ported 90/90 setup? When I start building the new motor.. it will be a min of 427 CI, and should I go for the world block it will be alot more then that... and it will have max compression and whatnot that I can get away with on pump gas, and the biggest baddest heads I can get, as well as plenty of cam to feed it. 1 7/8 merge collector headers will go on, will be a pretty max effort pump gas motor when I'm done. A VFN 2 inch ws6 cowl hood will be making it's way to my car eventually as well, so hood clearance shouldn't be an issue... only thing I will stop at is cutting the actual metal in the cowl of the car itself.... and I do believe that with an elbow that is slightly milled some, and a little milling off the top of the intake, (say .100 max off both together) there will be no cowl clearance issues, only with the factory hood, which won't be a problem.

I was thinking it would be a nice addition to toss on my head/cam setup for a while, but if what I'm seeing is correct, there's no point to it on my ls6 headed small cammed setup that I'm running now. I'm not even sure what I'm making for power at this point.. was 403 before the heads went on.. waiting to retune it in the spring when it warms up some. Thinking it's in the 440 rwhp range.. knowing who's car the heads came off that I'm now running, it should be aorund there.

If anyone has tested the intake with an elbow on a 427 ci + motor, I'd be intrested to see that.

if you want to run any kind of "standard" elbow, metal has to be cut.

this car had all the milling you are talking about but that doesn't fix the fact that the motor sits under the cowl

http://www.jenibellaracing.com/pictures/gmpp-intake-03.jpg

sure some companies make sheetmetal elbows that fit under the cowl, but I kinda question what that does to their flow potential

Carb style intakes are for 7,000+ rpm set ups.

Not true, the victor jr. out performs all other intakes at 5000 and up. :)

That is our intake setup, and as Fireball posted, it wont clear without issues. I had the GMPP intake milled .25 and the elbow based milled .3 and you can see we still had to trim the cowl area. We are using a Glasstek pin-on hood and it just barely rubs, and that is with the top of the elbow was milled as well.

FYI: No need to question the before and after tune, as Ken@HPTuners did the work. I mearly tweaked it at the track. :)

FYI: No need to question the before and after tune, as Ken@HPTuners did the work. I mearly tweaked it at the track. :)

I saw Ken did it afterward, I wasn't wure if ken did the before tune too...glad to hear that...that kinda shows the hp gains are +20-30 over the LSx

I'll find a way to make it fit without cutting the cowl.... or make my own if nessassary.

It looks like by the pic above, that with some angle milled into it it could work. I'm sure the vfn 2 inch ws-6 cowl hood will clear it. if it doesn't, and if I have to go to the 4 inch one, so be it.

There is a place called spectrum5racing that makes sheet metal elbows that you can use and not modify the hood. I think that is what I am gonna use.

Got a link?

Edit: Found it.

Took out link

Looks interesting.

I'd also be concerned by adding too much plenum volume with those elbows

I didn't post the link b/c they are not a sponsor.

It would be easy to test. I could do back to back with the elbow and a regular square flange TB.

What CFM does a NW 90mm TB flow?

If plenum volme is a concern with the elbow.. a shorter one like what I have in mind might work rather well. The pic above of that elbow appears as if there's plenty that could still be removed from teh TB side, as well as the bottom.. decreasong teh plenum volume by some amount.

I just talked with Aaron at Spectrum. He is willing to let me test this on the Dyno. He did not believe that the plenum volume would be an issue. Once I have the car back together, I will be able to test at Speed Inc. if I go this route.

I can test back to back with the Fast 90, Victor Jr. and NW 90, Victor Jr. and square flange if needed.

Now just need to get Speed Inc.to go along with this. Could be an interesting magazine test.

I just talked with Aaron at Spectrum. He is willing to let me test this on the Dyno. He did not believe that the plenum volume would be an issue. Once I have the car back together, I will be able to test at Speed Inc. if I go this route.

I can test back to back with the Fast 90, Victor Jr. and NW 90, Victor Jr. and square flange if needed.

Now just need to get Speed Inc.to go along with this. Could be an interesting magazine test.

I talked to Larry at Speed Inc, and he said they would be happy to do the testing. I will talk to GM High Tech Performance Magazine and report back.

I don't think there would be much of a difference between the Spectrum 5 elbow and the Wilson Manifolds style elbow.

I'll find a way to make it fit without cutting the cowl.... or make my own if nessassary.

It looks like by the pic above, that with some angle milled into it it could work. I'm sure the vfn 2 inch ws-6 cowl hood will clear it. if it doesn't, and if I have to go to the 4 inch one, so be it.
You know that the plastic weather striping stuff sticks out past the sheet metal a bit too right?
So if you do find an elbow to fit without cutting the sheet metal you're probably still going to have to cut all the platic off.

there are a few places that make elbows that will fit under the cowl no problem, but from what I've heard, the ones that fit totally under the cowl could be slightly restrictive, so to get the best airflow, the cowl needs slight cutting.

Did an email blast to Edelbrock, prime media and a few others. I want to get the test covered on this. There is a lot of interest in this mod. Somebody should want to cover it. I am at the right point and the right time to do this.

I wanna be the test mule!

Did an email blast to Edelbrock, prime media and a few others. I want to get the test covered on this. There is a lot of interest in this mod. Somebody should want to cover it. I am at the right point and the right time to do this.

I wanna be the test mule!

I sent an email to Rick Jensen (Editor) at Primedia. If I hear anything back from him, I will let you know Steve.

Great. Let's get this covered. Not looking for financial gain here (I won;t turn it down either) just the added cost of the testing.

Here is what was sent to Edelbrock and several other magazines.

Here is a copy of an email I sent to Edelbrock. I believe this test idea has wide appeal for your subscriber base. I am one of the subscribers as well. Please read this over and let me know if you have any interest in this.

It was good talking with you yesterday about the LS1 Victor Jr. intake on an LS1 car. We talked over the possibility of some back to back testing. I would like to propose this to you and Edelbrock.

The test car is a 99 Z28

Engine specs:
347 forged short block
13:1 compression
ETP 225 heads www.etheads.com
Cam will be in the 242/248 110LSA .615 lift range
underdrive pulley
Edelbrock LS1 headers with tunable collector
Custom dual exhaust
Currently Fast 90 mm intake and Nick Williams 90mm throttle body

Drive Train specs:
TH350 RMVB with trans brake
4800 stall custom converter
Strange CM drive Shaft
Moser 12 bolt with 4.10 gears.

Suspension is all BMR
Tubular K member and a arms
Sub Frame connectors
Lower Control Arms
Adjustable Panhard rod
rear drag bar
adjustable torque arm

The car runs at the track on 10.5 x 28 x 15 ET drags.

Here is the test that I am proposing:

Test the car with the Fast 90 setup
Test with the Victor Jr. and square flange TB setup
Test with Victor Jr Spectrum Racing Elbow and 90mm TB. http://www.spectrum5racing.com/

This could be a showcase test for several magazines including GM High Tech Performance, Super Chevy, Chevy High Performance, Car Craft, and Hot Rod to name a few.

With the popularity of the LS1 as a swap candidate, this could bring a lot of business to Edelbrock. I have started a thread on www.ls1tech.com in the drag race section on this combination. I encourage you to take a look as there is a great deal of interest in this.

Please let me know if you get this email and if there is any interest in my proposal.

Thank you
Steve Burger

I'm o.k. with cutting the plastic if need be.. I'll go to the dealer and get a new one before I even start, so if I want to put it back I can. The metal.. that's a little harder to replace.

This news of the testing is great.. I'll have to bookmark this thread for future referance for sure.

You know that the plastic weather striping stuff sticks out past the sheet metal a bit too right?
So if you do find an elbow to fit without cutting the sheet metal you're probably still going to have to cut all the platic off.You of all people would be the last on my mind about cutting up a car... :judge: :devil:

I have had both...This is my experience.

90/90
Made more dyno HP and TQ and performed better at the track on a max effort setup. We were spraying this car with a 300 nozzle in front of the TB. We kept taking various plugs out. I installed a EGT system for each primarn to see what was going on. I found that spraying through that manifold yeilded me a 250 degree difference is some of the cylinders. Then we switched

GM carb manifold
Got hotter and made less through the whole curve. It did go alittle slower and lost a mph or 2 but when we sprayed it with a plate it worked like a champ. EGTs were within 50 degrees of each other. Never took out another plug.


What I am saying is that if you are a max effort small cube motor that is going to be running on motor then the 90/90 is a better combo but if you are going to spray the car that the carb style is way way better.
I have the same intake on my car 5.82@121 in the 1/8

What I am saying is that if you are a max effort small cube motor that is going to be running on motor then the 90/90 is a better combo but if you are going to spray the car that the carb style is way way better.
I have the same intake on my car 5.82@121 in the 1/8
Oh oh jake you better get your intake back:eek:

I looked at the intake and a 1000 cfm Holley TB last night at Billingsly's shop. I can not see ho this setup can not beat a Fast 90. The runners are a straight shot to the head and there is a lot a material to work with.

Hey 4thgen, sounds like you are on a similar path. We should get together and see what's up as we are close. I am going to call Larry today and discuss this.

I looked at the intake and a 1000 cfm Holley TB last night at Billingsly's shop. I can not see ho this setup can not beat a Fast 90. The runners are a straight shot to the head and there is a lot a material to work with.

Hey 4thgen, sounds like you are on a similar path. We should get together and see what's up as we are close. I am going to call Larry today and discuss this.

Sounds good Steve. If you remember, we have met before up in Plainfield off of I-55. I am sending you a PM...

I looked at the intake and a 1000 cfm Holley TB last night at Billingsly's shop. I can not see ho this setup can not beat a Fast 90. The runners are a straight shot to the head and there is a lot a material to work with.

Hey 4thgen, sounds like you are on a similar path. We should get together and see what's up as we are close. I am going to call Larry today and discuss this.
a little off topic, but I'm also doing this setup and trying to figure out how many cfm 4150 throttle body I need. how much can 1000 support? looks like the options are from about 1000 to 1350 cfm. I'll be putting a vic jr on a NA408. already sold my fast 90/90 though, so no back to back testing.

I have had both...This is my experience.

90/90
Made more dyno HP and TQ and performed better at the track on a max effort setup. We were spraying this car with a 300 nozzle in front of the TB. We kept taking various plugs out. I installed a EGT system for each primarn to see what was going on. I found that spraying through that manifold yeilded me a 250 degree difference is some of the cylinders. Then we switched

GM carb manifold
Got hotter and made less through the whole curve. It did go alittle slower and lost a mph or 2 but when we sprayed it with a plate it worked like a champ. EGTs were within 50 degrees of each other. Never took out another plug.


What I am saying is that if you are a max effort small cube motor that is going to be running on motor then the 90/90 is a better combo but if you are going to spray the car that the carb style is way way better.
I have the same intake on my car 5.82@121 in the 1/8



how big is the motor in ur car?

how big is the motor in ur car?
I belive he's running a full race 408.

I belive he's running a full race 408.
damn, that would be dissapointing results :(

damn, that would be dissapointing results :(



yeah it deff would.....

5.8 anything I wouldn't consider disappointing results. I don't know about you 2 guys but that seems to be pretty fast around here. I was just giving the differences that I saw in the 2 setups. With the 90/90 and a SHO nozzle the car went 5.90@119 with a 1.27 60ft. This was on a 28/10.5W. We switched to a little 28/11.5 ET Street for the TTT5 true street class, at the same time we went with the carb style intake and a plate. We went a 6.07@117 with a 1.37 60ft with 200 pills in the plate. This by the way was in a 3290lb TA with a hydrolic roller 11.5cr iron 408 with 241 heads.

My car went a 5.82@121 with a 1.30 60ft with a solid roller 13.0cr iron 408 with a 241 heads that weighed in at 3300+lbs. This had a acufab TB on a GM carb style intake with a compucar plate pilled at 300. Now it has a Nasty sheetmedal intake with a dual stage fogger and a 105mm TB. I am in the process of getting some ETP 255 heads. We will see how fast it goes but according to you guys it will probably just be disappointing again.

I think they ment it was disappointing to see the carb yeilded worse et and MPH. Not that your car is disappointing.

I think they ment it was disappointing to see the carb yeilded worse et and MPH. Not that your car is disappointing.




yeah thats what i was sayin......

But it's not disappointing in the least, CJ is talking about my car. The engine is a high compression 408 CID forged hydraulic roller. We had a FAST 90/90 and a single NX SHO nozzle on it with a 300 shot and it ran faster times than the GMPP carbed style with the Compucar plate and Wilson carbed style T/B has yet. Using the EGT probes and data logging on each pass we can tell that the carb flows more consistantly to each cylinder than does the FAST 90/90 and the carbed style set up is alot easier on the engine parts. With the 90/90 it blew the head gaskets twice and fire spotted the DS head once. The sheetmetal cowling at the base of the windshield does have to be removed to use this set up though, I cut it out by hand using a small hand held hack saw and saved it so I could weld it back in if necessary. We have also noticed that the carbed style manifold does lose below 5000 RPM but really comes alive above 5000 RPM, I shift at 7000 RPM. We had the car running pretty rich on the big shot so with some tuning we will get back what we lost. You also have to remember that the 5.90 pass was on a 10.5W tire where the 6.0's have been on a 10.5 ET Street.


I think they ment it was disappointing to see the carb yeilded worse et and MPH. Not that your car is disappointing.

But it's not disappointing in the least, CJ is talking about my car. The engine is a high compression 408 CID forged hydraulic roller. We had a FAST 90/90 and a single NX SHO nozzle on it with a 300 shot and it ran faster times than the GMPP carbed style with the Compucar plate and Wilson carbed style T/B has yet. Using the EGT probes and data logging on each pass we can tell that the carb flows more consistantly to each cylinder than does the FAST 90/90 and the carbed style set up is alot easier on the engine parts. With the 90/90 it blew the head gaskets twice and fire spotted the DS head once. The sheetmetal cowling at the base of the windshield does have to be removed to use this set up though, I cut it out by hand using a small hand held hack saw and saved it so I could weld it back in if necessary. We have also noticed that the carbed style manifold does lose below 5000 RPM but really comes alive above 5000 RPM, I shift at 7000 RPM. We had the car running pretty rich on the big shot so with some tuning we will get back what we lost. You also have to remember that the 5.90 pass was on a 10.5W tire where the 6.0's have been on a 10.5 ET Street.


ok, now that we have ALL the details, I would say that is not dissapointing at all :) looks to be quite a bit better than the 90/90. would be really nice to have back to back comparisions though

I have the BS3 and the Red Alert EGT probes on each cylinder, we moniter everything the car is doing while it's going down the track. We had a very conservative tune in it running consistant 6.0/6.1 passes on the little ET Streets and a 200 shot. We still have quite a bit of room to tune it for more power at the correct times.

ok, now that we have ALL the details, I would say that is not dissapointing at all :) looks to be quite a bit better than the 90/90. would be really nice to have back to back comparisions though

The 90/90 was eating so many plugs and even blew a chunk out of the head like a cutting torch. The carb style hasn't taken one plug out and is running so much smoother. Like I said above though. If you are going to run motor the do the 90/90 but if you are going to spray the car with anything over 150 then do the carb style.

What about a BIG CI all motor setup.. 440+ CI, max effort pump gas motor? I'm planning (hoping) to make 700 rw when the new motor's done in a year or 2, for all I know, somethingelse may come out before then, but at this point, I'm planning a world bloc, ls7/ET265 heads, maybe spayed valve ones if they continue the work on those, 1 7/8 to 2 inch stepped headers w/ HVMC, the works. and I wanna go as big on the CI as I can leaving enough room for some rebuilds on the cylinder walls... hopefully it will end up in the 470 ci range when I'm done.... way I figure, the fast intake will most likly be a restriction. If anyone has tried this intake on a really big CI motor, or a max n/a setup I'd be most intrested in these findings... I understand the concerns with spraying, the even air distribution of the intake is worth it's weight in gold for that IMO, if I were planning on a spray setup, I'd take this route regardless of any losses on motor, drivability etc simply because of the safety of the design.

I belive he's running a full race 408.

Ill be running a 408 13.5.1 with a sold roller over 700 lift with etp 265.I know thats not full race but im very curious to see a victor jr intate on my setup.

I have had both...This is my experience.

90/90
Made more dyno HP and TQ and performed better at the track on a max effort setup. We were spraying this car with a 300 nozzle in front of the TB. We kept taking various plugs out. I installed a EGT system for each primarn to see what was going on. I found that spraying through that manifold yeilded me a 250 degree difference is some of the cylinders. Then we switched

GM carb manifold
Got hotter and made less through the whole curve. It did go alittle slower and lost a mph or 2 but when we sprayed it with a plate it worked like a champ. EGTs were within 50 degrees of each other. Never took out another plug.


What I am saying is that if you are a max effort small cube motor that is going to be running on motor then the 90/90 is a better combo but if you are going to spray the car that the carb style is way way better.
I have the same intake on my car 5.82@121 in the 1/8

If you used a spray direct port injections would the EGT be more even?

If you used a spray direct port injections would the EGT be more even?
He was running in TTT5 and his class dosent allow DP's.

Yes they would be with correct tuning using the BS3 for timing and A/F. As Sux2BU said thought my car is set up to run True 10.5 True Street class and we can't use a direct port set up.

If you used a spray direct port injections would the EGT be more even?

I didn't cut anything, but I don't run a filter either. Never seen a race car with a filter.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/LOnSLO/enginepic.jpg

Picked up over 40rwhp over an LS2 manifold. Dropped 3 tenths also. Nuff said. This was on my 408

Looks good. I am going to try and run a filter on the street. Ya know for those few miles a year.

LOnSLO,what kind of throttle body is that.it looks a little thinner than usual.or is it just me?

LOnSLO,what kind of throttle body is that.it looks a little thinner than usual.or is it just me?
Accel 1550cfm progressive. Nice piece.

it does look good.

Is that an NA set up? If not where do you have your noids mounted? What's the 2nd vacuum line coming off of the T/B for?

I didn't cut anything, but I don't run a filter either. Never seen a race car with a filter.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/LOnSLO/enginepic.jpg

Picked up over 40rwhp over an LS2 manifold. Dropped 3 tenths also. Nuff said. This was on my 408

i really like that tb

Im ordering mine shortly. :drive:

I ordered mine. Got a good price from billingsley

Here's some of the threads from the past:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105407
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112195
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148639 <<results
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158658
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168311
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173568
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198601
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267311 <<pictures
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305750 <<pictures
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311005 <<dyno results
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314549
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320023
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327044
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334178
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354540
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379735 <<pictures
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381677 <<pictures
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392724 <<Lots of Pix
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414468

Is that an NA set up? If not where do you have your noids mounted? What's the 2nd vacuum line coming off of the T/B for?

Yes, set up N/A. The 2nd vacuum line is for a remote mount MAP sensor.

I hope this thing works good on the street! lol I just bought the one in the pic above from LOnSLO.. It looks KILLER!!

any more updates on this subject. were do you guys find these throttle bodys? I already have a fast 90 tb and intake. My setup is et240s 12:1cr 408 cam is still undecided. I found the intakes but not the tb that bolt directly to the intake.

now i did more research and the only question i have now is if i run an accel or accufab 4150 throttle body can i use the iac and tps that come with them.
I will be using the 98 ls1 stock computer. I am confused about the electronics

now i did more research and the only question i have now is if i run an accel or accufab 4150 throttle body can i use the iac and tps that come with them.
I will be using the 98 ls1 stock computer. I am confused about the electronics
yes, they come with GM electronics.