PREDATOR-Z

This would be with stock verter, stage 1 heads, stock manifolds

0.050
210/224,0.556/0.568, 115 LSA, 114 ICL
XE Lobes (3708/3715)

-9>IVO
39>IVC
48>EVO
-4>EVC
116>ECL
-13>Overlap

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

I am running the Vinci Boss II cam, with the following characteristics (using the VE spreadsheet). It is very streetable and makes good power below 6K RPM. I think its a great street cam and not too different from the one you are looking at.


Intake Duration - ID 216
Exhaust Duration - ED 224
Lobe Center Angle - LCA 115
Intake Centerline - ICL 110


Intake Valve opens - IVO -2
Intake Valve closes - IVC 38
Exhaust Valve Opens - EVO 52
Exhaust Valve Closes - EVC -8
Exhaust Centerline - ECL 120
Overlap -10

eamador11

Go bigger than that, 220/220 581.581 @115. perfect street cam. Thats the MTI stealth cam. ive had it for 2 years then i wanted some lope.

smooth as a whistle at idle and drives like stock when cruising around.

PREDATOR-Z

Yeah, i've been looking at Crane cams, but I want a little more lift.
I had the Stealth II (sold), but want less lift and softer lobes.

I put the specs together to go with:

Stage 1 CNC, 241 castings with 918s (I have everything except the CNC, thinking TEA),
7.40 p-rods, (Have them)
Mill to ~ 11.0:1 SCR
Stock manifolds,
Magnaflow X pipe with catback,
Halltech filter,
ported TB
Wideband guage (Have it)
VINCI handheld programer (Have it)

Basically a very Stealthy, sniff passing ,(shooting for 380>400 rwhp), that will have no ill manners, shift at 6100, easy on valvetrain, low maintenance combo.

Total $$$ not to exceed $3500 (maybe a little less)

SouthFL.02.SS

Looks like it would work great with TEA 1's.
.1 73
.2 144
.3 209
.4 252
.5 283
.55 296
.6 294.2

Seems like small duration with a broad lsa is a nice combo that many of us have forgotten about.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

I just picked up the Dart 205's for my Vinci setup. Can't install until spring though, friggin cold weather and snow

smask04C5

iTrader: (1)

Installing a fast 90 with a NW tb this weekend on car in sig, boss 2 is an excellent performing cam, pulls hard to 6200 with my combination.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Intake valve closing point is a little early for best power under the curve. You need to have it closer to 42-44 degrees ABDC at .050". Make that change and you'll have excellent low rpm power (because of short duration) and it will carry the upper rpm better and be up around 10 rwhp. This is one of the reasons why the CheaTR cam makes so much power.

PREDATOR-Z

Yeah, I get that, but CheaTR power comes too late for me and lobes too aggressive. I do not want to spend on a tune. I want to use my VINCI/CRANE handheld which has preset 6100 rpm shifts.
39 IVC is the best I can get while still delaying EV0 as much as possible without narrowing IVC-EVO gap.
Keep in mind also this is on XE lobes.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

The CheaTR does not require tuning outside of raising idle speed and rev limiters. Lobes are not overly aggressive. It gives around 8.6 to 1 DCR with a motor running 11.0 SCR. That's huge torque down low. Check some of the dynos of cars running headers. Torque is abundant.

My point is, you'll be leaving about 10 rwhp on the table with a 39 degree IVC. Close it later and narrow the LSA slightly and you can have your cake and eat it too.

PREDATOR-Z

Ok, Patrick,

I've been playing around with this for awhile and to get 42>44 IVC, I seem to be able to only do it 2 ways:
1- I change durations + LSA/Advance
2- I keep same durations and just change LSA/Advance

Now this is what came out of option 2:

0.050
210/224, .556/.568, 115LSA -2 advance (117ICL)


-12>IVO
42>IVC
45>EVO
-1>EVC
113>ECL
-13> OVERLAP

Another way is this:ON 117lsa-117icl

-12>IVO
42>IVC
49>EVO
-5>EVC
117>ECL
-17>OVERLAP




To tell you the truth, that doesn't really make to much sense to me. (kinda mutant don't you think?)
It will push the band higher which is the opposite of what I want.

Just so you know, the VINCI handheld tuner has preset 6100 shifts that can't be raised. (the only downside of this handheld).
My mind feels like Ping/Pong

Just trying to fit #3 post criteria.
BTW 210/224, .056/.068 115+1 LSA, will be at 8.61 DCR at ~10.89 SCR

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

Looking at the stock cams, it seems that staying with an IVC of 40 - 42 would be fine. A 214/224 115 113 would have an IVC of 40, EVO = 49, overlap = -11.

Another way to look at it is that IIRC, the 2003 Z06 cam (at .05) is IVC = 40 or 41, EVO = 44 or 45. Opening the exhaust valve early helps with a restrictive exhaust but also helps the top end more than the bottom end. A 212/222 114 114 would have IVC = 40, EVO = 45, Overlap = -11. This should give a torquey bottom end which you need if you keep a stock converter.

PREDATOR-Z

The 02>04 ZO6 cam VE's are as follow:

0.050
204/218,
117.5 LSA
117.5 ICL


-15.5>IVO
39.5>IVC
46.5>EVO
-8.5>EVC
117.5>ECL
-23> Overlap

The only way it could be 40 IVC is by retarding 0.5* in the grind (118 ICL)

I dunno guys, I'm not convinced, I think I will try my specs out.
Might not be the most powerfull Stealth cam, but I'm 99% convinced it will do the job I intent it to. (Fit my combo criteria)
Even Crane/VINCI cams which are known for low end torque are on 38* IVC, and mine will be on 39* IVC (similar to LS6) but with more duration, more lift & less LSA

So 210/224, .556/.568 115 +1 LSA it is gonna be (XE Lobes)
8.61 DCR on a 10.9 SCR

(After all paper R&D and physical R&D are 2 different animals)
For knowledge.

PREDATOR-Z

Well the cam has been ordered, I'll let you guys know how it does once all installed.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

The '02+ Z06 cam specs are incorrect. The cam is actually 204/218 117.5LSA 120ICL (that means it's actually 2.5 degrees retarded). Notice the IVC of 42 degrees. This is one of the reasons why the LS6 will rev very well.

02+ Z06 camshaft 0.006 0.050 0.200

Intake Duration - ID 270 204 125 02 LS6 intake
Exhaust Duration - ED 277 218 135 02 LS6 exhaust
Lobe Center Angle - LSA 117.5 117.5 117.5
Intake Centerline - ICL 120 120 120


Intake Valve opens - IVO 15 -18 -57.5 BTDC
Intake Valve closes - IVC 75 42 2.5 ABDC
Exhaust Valve Opens - EVO 73.5 44 2.5 BBDC
Exhaust Valve Closes - EVC 23.5 -6 -47.5 ATDC
Exhaust Centerline - ECL 115 115 115
Overlap 38.5 -24 -105 degrees

Sport Side

iTrader: (6)

Why focus in on the .050'' IVC so much? The .200'' IVC gives a much better indication of the amount of charge being brought in when dealing with varying lobe profiles.

I hate the wide LSA, and overly exhaust biased profiles for the stock operating range.

Take a look at my stock cam (191/190-114), 5.3L dyno graph.
Flat as F... 5600 shift points.



The wide seperation stuff isn't all that great. Take a look at my Dad's stock Z, dyno graph. It sucks D for someone looking for 6100RPM shift points. Take away all of that power at 6600RPM and put it somewhere usable.

Rob

iTrader: (6)

I just did 393/380 with my setup. Less than $3500 and extremely "stock" feel and sound. Easy on the valve train too

Mods in sig.

PREDATOR-Z

Yeah, I see, the LS6 makes sense now. (search engine down).
So they actually retard cams in grind, (interesting).
The thing is, LS6, CheaTR, GT2-3 like to rev higher (that is one thing I wanted to avoid) for tuning purposes.
I wanted to bring the powerband down.
I do not regret getting this one made, I'm actually curious as to what are the live results.
As we surely know, there is allways a trade off by maximising one thing, we take away from another.
Basically, I want my 03 C5 to come to par with the new C6 LS2, but still sounding/acting completely stock, no lope and done with minimum budget.
I figured that close to 100 rwhp extra will do it.
So head/ cam + some bolt ons under $3500 total ($35/rwhp is not bad at all)
(Super Stealth, both visual and physical)
We shall see, I guess.

Rob

iTrader: (6)

Actually, the cam you picked should work well. Should make good low-mid range torque. Cams like this seem to work well down under in the Commordore's and Monaro's.

If/when I change the cam, I'm going after torque and still shift under 6300. Don't need to rev to the moon to go fast. Used to shift at 5100 in my TTA and still was able to knock off 121mph 1/4's. Torque is king...