MS3 w/ what heads?
01-13-2006, 12:13 PM
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MS3 w/ what heads? Ok so i have been prolongin my H/C for a while and now i finaly got the dough to pay for these. I want to do the MS3.... i was originaly planing on goin with PRC 2.5 stage 5.3l heads. But what worries me is that the prc heads are not talked abotu much on the board. Partiort, Livernois, Dart, ect... i hear all these names alot more. I just want to get the best out fo a head for that price range. I would love to go AFR but $$$. So let me no what u guys think... which head would i be better off wiht? Thanks for all your help 
01-13-2006, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 4thGenCamaro
I am going with Dart 225s with my MS3. PRC 5.3s won't clear w/o flycutting.
01-13-2006, 06:29 PM
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Doesn't TSP have specific heads that would work with the magic stick? Just call up TSP and ask them what they would recommend, they are the maker od the cam so they should know what to use.
-Joel
-Joel
01-13-2006, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 2000Hawk
Doesn't TSP have specific heads that would work with the magic stick? Just call up TSP and ask them what they would recommend, they are the maker od the cam so they should know what to use.
-Joel
-Joel
Call Jason at TSP.
01-13-2006, 06:49 PM
#7
Here is my personal feelings about the head and cam issue here.
To get the most power out of a head and cam swap compression is needed.
When someone is dead set of a MS3 cam or something similar in size geting the right head is tough. In my oponion you kinda defeat the purpose of having a big cam if you cant get the right setup heads due to P/V clearence.
Why run a MS3 cam with a set of heads that yeild stock or close to stock compression, when you could run a smaller cam with more compression and have very similar power and much better driveability??????????????
To me it makes little since.
I love the ET heads in this case because you can run whatever cam you wish and it will still be fine P/V clearence wise.
A awsome combo would be a T rex/MS3, ET 215 heads, and 11.5:1 compression with no flycutting. To me buying the big cam and loosing out on heads due to the valves being sunk (to allow P/V clearence which hurts head flow) and having to keep stock compression isn't the smartest idea.
To get the most power out of a head and cam swap compression is needed.
When someone is dead set of a MS3 cam or something similar in size geting the right head is tough. In my oponion you kinda defeat the purpose of having a big cam if you cant get the right setup heads due to P/V clearence.
Why run a MS3 cam with a set of heads that yeild stock or close to stock compression, when you could run a smaller cam with more compression and have very similar power and much better driveability??????????????
To me it makes little since.
I love the ET heads in this case because you can run whatever cam you wish and it will still be fine P/V clearence wise.
A awsome combo would be a T rex/MS3, ET 215 heads, and 11.5:1 compression with no flycutting. To me buying the big cam and loosing out on heads due to the valves being sunk (to allow P/V clearence which hurts head flow) and having to keep stock compression isn't the smartest idea.
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01-13-2006, 07:31 PM
#9
After all my rambeling's, I will add one other head combo that will make since.
Taking that many of us on are a budget and looking for the most power on a bugdet.
Buying a set of LS6 heads that have been fully ported and use stock valves wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Get a extra half a point in compression with the 64cc LS6/LS2 heads, and many of the benifits a stock head gives.
With the price wars going on the heads only cost 850 bucks.
That could be a great idea for the more budget minded people.
Taking that many of us on are a budget and looking for the most power on a bugdet.
Buying a set of LS6 heads that have been fully ported and use stock valves wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Get a extra half a point in compression with the 64cc LS6/LS2 heads, and many of the benifits a stock head gives.
With the price wars going on the heads only cost 850 bucks.
That could be a great idea for the more budget minded people.
01-13-2006, 08:38 PM
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/\
That's why I ported my LS1 heads and left the stock valves in. We'll see how it performs once I get a clutch. Hopefully it will be pretty strong, BUT it could really suck too knowing my luck!
That's why I ported my LS1 heads and left the stock valves in. We'll see how it performs once I get a clutch. Hopefully it will be pretty strong, BUT it could really suck too knowing my luck!
01-13-2006, 08:39 PM
#14
Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
JZ'sTA is preaching valuable info.
Why thanks South Fla.
At least someone reads my long *** posts.
And BTW I would check into the AFR question. They use a larger intake and exhaust valve. If its fits without hiting I have to guess the first slight over rev and its time to take apart your top end.
I personially dont think it would fit but haven't done that combo so I dont want to say 100% NO.
01-13-2006, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
Here is my personal feelings about the head and cam issue here.
To get the most power out of a head and cam swap compression is needed.
When someone is dead set of a MS3 cam or something similar in size geting the right head is tough. In my oponion you kinda defeat the purpose of having a big cam if you cant get the right setup heads due to P/V clearence.
Why run a MS3 cam with a set of heads that yeild stock or close to stock compression, when you could run a smaller cam with more compression and have very similar power and much better driveability??????????????
To me it makes little since.
I love the ET heads in this case because you can run whatever cam you wish and it will still be fine P/V clearence wise.
A awsome combo would be a T rex/MS3, ET 215 heads, and 11.5:1 compression with no flycutting. To me buying the big cam and loosing out on heads due to the valves being sunk (to allow P/V clearence which hurts head flow) and having to keep stock compression isn't the smartest idea.
To get the most power out of a head and cam swap compression is needed.
When someone is dead set of a MS3 cam or something similar in size geting the right head is tough. In my oponion you kinda defeat the purpose of having a big cam if you cant get the right setup heads due to P/V clearence.
Why run a MS3 cam with a set of heads that yeild stock or close to stock compression, when you could run a smaller cam with more compression and have very similar power and much better driveability??????????????
To me it makes little since.
I love the ET heads in this case because you can run whatever cam you wish and it will still be fine P/V clearence wise.
A awsome combo would be a T rex/MS3, ET 215 heads, and 11.5:1 compression with no flycutting. To me buying the big cam and loosing out on heads due to the valves being sunk (to allow P/V clearence which hurts head flow) and having to keep stock compression isn't the smartest idea.
DCR is in the mid 7 range with stock compression with the ms3 
01-13-2006, 10:48 PM
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JZ'STA thank you very much for explaing this..... i understand you completly. I wish i new more about heads and cam... i want to get teh most HP that i can out of my set up. The car is not an everyday car but it is a street car. You think i can get more ponies out of a diff H/C pkg.? thank you again for you infromation i wish i new what u guys know 
I wish i new more about heads and cam... i want to get teh most HP that i can out of my set up. The car is not an everyday car but it is a street car. You think i can get more ponies out of a diff H/C pkg.? thank you again for you infromation i wish i new what u guys know
01-13-2006, 11:28 PM
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Try texas speed 228R 228/228 .588/.588 with the just realeased set of his PRC budget CNC ported 243 castings milled to 62 cc. $849..... $539 for the cam springs and pushrods and maybe he'll work out a deal 
shoud get you just over 400 with a good torque curve DEcent off the shelf Cam and head package for under $1400 bucks
If your dead set on the MS3 from a budget prespective ... look at the patriot 59cc LS style heads to raise your compression. With the 2.02 valves. the head is stock deck hight so PTV "may" not be an issue but should be checkd anyway.
Buy the heads you want then get a Cam it makes it alot easier understanding the ceviats of each
shoud get you just over 400 with a good torque curve DEcent off the shelf Cam and head package for under $1400 bucks If your dead set on the MS3 from a budget prespective ... look at the patriot 59cc LS style heads to raise your compression. With the 2.02 valves. the head is stock deck hight so PTV "may" not be an issue but should be checkd anyway.
Buy the heads you want then get a Cam it makes it alot easier understanding the ceviats of each
01-13-2006, 11:56 PM
#19
I am and always have been a huge fan of the 224/228 581/588 (most M6 guys put it on a 112, or a common LSA is a 113+2)
I dont feel like you need a huge cam in a street car, geting the right setup and the right tune is more important.
Honestly it comes down to goals vs budget.
You need to set your goals and your budget and go from there.
I myself would run a 224/228 (or the cam said above is a nice design as well) and me personially I would run either the 5.3 stage 1.5 heads from TEA, the combo said above from PRC or something very similar. You "seem" like you have a decent budget after looking at your car and the mods you have, so if your budget allow's for it spring for the 215 heads from ETP.
That way if you decide later on you want more cam then you already have the heads taken care of and you can swap cams w/o having to worry about flycuting the pistons.
Now with that being said dont think I dislike the MS3 cam. I just perfer the better driveability a smaller cam will give. If driveability isn't a concern and you can afford it the MS3 and the 215 ETP's would be a hell of a combo.
I believe a 85-100 RWHP increase can be had with that combo and a damn good tune. Those heads are killer, and the MS3 cam is defentially capable of making some power.
I dont feel like you need a huge cam in a street car, geting the right setup and the right tune is more important.
Honestly it comes down to goals vs budget.
You need to set your goals and your budget and go from there.
I myself would run a 224/228 (or the cam said above is a nice design as well) and me personially I would run either the 5.3 stage 1.5 heads from TEA, the combo said above from PRC or something very similar. You "seem" like you have a decent budget after looking at your car and the mods you have, so if your budget allow's for it spring for the 215 heads from ETP.
That way if you decide later on you want more cam then you already have the heads taken care of and you can swap cams w/o having to worry about flycuting the pistons.
Now with that being said dont think I dislike the MS3 cam. I just perfer the better driveability a smaller cam will give. If driveability isn't a concern and you can afford it the MS3 and the 215 ETP's would be a hell of a combo.
I believe a 85-100 RWHP increase can be had with that combo and a damn good tune. Those heads are killer, and the MS3 cam is defentially capable of making some power.
01-14-2006, 10:14 AM
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i dotn really have a budget..... i mean i dotn get why i can spend 1500 on a set a PRC or 1300 on Patriot heads and then spen 2500 on AFR's? What makes them so much diff. where then can get 1000$ more? Like i said the car is not an everyday car its my weekend racer. The drive train is ready to handle so HP and i was hopeing to get in the 450 range. I no the MS3 in big and my thought was alway bigger better.... ya know. thanks again for your guys help
thanks again for your guys help