35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

Ok i am pretty sure i am goin to go with soem ETP heads...... if i can come of with the cash. But any way i see TSP just came out with these... they are stock hight so i wont have to worry about pv clearence and i can use the MS3. i was just curious if they will get me to my 440 450 HP goal? thanks for the help

SouthFL.02.SS

With an MS3, sure. Try doing it on your stock ls6 intake. If you don't make it to your goal, slap on a FAST90 and it should take you there.

35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

so why would i buy ETP's if i can make the HP with this set up and save money? I can buy my CCW's

SouthFL.02.SS

The PRC 243 heads are a good buy.
The ETP's are better (flow, velocity, PTV clearance).

It's up to you.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

That is in a nutshell what I was pointing out in the other thread.
On some combo's the cheeper head with the fast 90/90 will gain more power then the better head and LS6 intake.
I think 450 can be done but through the 12 bolt with a LS6 intake and stock ported TB??????????? I am sure some have made it work but I would guess most see closer to 435 then 450 with similar combo's.
Also the ETP head will allow you to run 11.25-11.5:1 Compression on pump gas where the PRC will be limited to 10.5:1
Many of the guys making 450 with heads and cam have over 11:1 Compression.

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

Yeah I don't see it making 450rwhp with the ls6 intake, but its possible.. More than likely it would put down somewhere in the 430-440 range..

Silverhawk_02TA

Keep in mind that TSP can make you a set of their PRC 2.5 5.3 heads that will clear the MS3. I'd imagine they should net you more power than the PRC LS6 heads because of the added compression. Give they guys at TSP a call and see what they recommend.

35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

And they would put my compression up around 11:1?

Matt D

iTrader: (49)

If you go with PRC 5.3 heads and the MS3 you will have to flycut your pistons. Why not go with a set of Dart 225cc? You don't have to with those.

35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

are you positive? and you think that with a fast 90/90 will get me up to 450

Matt D

iTrader: (49)

Depends on drivetrain loss. You should be able to hit 450 with the Fast 90/90. South FL did 460 I believe.

35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

well with my 9'' its goin to mroe drivetrain loss?? tell you the truth i dont really care what i put down i just want low 11's high 10's on my 150 shot and to go like a bat out of hell on the street

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

**** you can do that cam only, very easily.
Its called a high rev launch, shift at 6500+ RPM's, shift like a bat out of hell (without missing a shift) and running a drag slick.
You can easily run low 11'sith that combo.

I dont believe the darts will fit without flycuting. I dont see why they would.
They are a 15* head and are pretty much a like stock aftermarket casting.
I believe he would be just as good or maybe even better with the PRC's then the dart heads.
The dart heads are nice but so are the PRC's.

Now I must preach this one more time.
Everyone is saying how this head can work and that head can work w/o flycuting.
If what you say is true, and it clears, would any of you run a 150 shot on top of that combo with that close of P/V clearence????
I know I learned my lesson already doing it.
My piston and my valves thought they were dating. After dating for so long they decited it was time to kiss.
Retarded *** bastard got a hard on and knocked the valve right out of the head.

35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

well that doesnt sound like a very good love story to me! i am just try to get a cheaper set up if i dotn have the cash for ETPs.... insurence is comin up and NJ sux $$$$......... but anyway so the less pv clearence theres a risk with nitrious? and there is no cheap head that will work with that big of a cam and nitrious? lastly what school did you go to to learn all this bc i need to inroll!!!!

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

There is enough safty stuff for nitrous that it can help against driver error.
The biggest Fup's are having the rev limiter turned off or shifting down a gear instead of up a gear. (3rd to 2nd instead of 3rd to 4th) If that happens it can be REAL BAD.
Nitrous just makes everything rev so much faster.
When there is little P/V clearence left in your setup a mistake on the nitrous can turn a bent valve into a blown motor. Personially I believe you could save the 3000 on your top end with the heads fast 90/90 and put it into making you car launch and go straight.
I have ran 11.3 7 days after I bought a 2000 Trans AM and the only mods were mid length headers, exhaust, a 3000 stall converter and a 150 shot. Car was making 330 HP to the tire on motor and ran 11.3 at 121 MPH.
1.6 60 ft Being in the 6 speed it will be a little harder but you will be making around 100 more HP then I was and have a much better power band with the camshaft.
Going fast isn't all about HP, having the proper setup is the biggest key.
Even see some auto guys running like 10.5 or faster CAM ONLY. Its all about the setup.
Light weight, GREAT tune, big cam, Huge stall, and a hard *** hooking tire combo. 1.4 60 ft times and there gone.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

Trust me there are 100's of guys on this site smarter than myself. I know a little bit about a lot of topics. Some of these guys are flat out smart in some issues.
I honestly learned alot from here.
When I first got online I would read for 2-3 hours per night.
I was flat out dumb. I then started the trial and error with my own car and now I acturally work on other peoples cars.
Your on the right track. Listen to what people have tried before you and then try what you think is best. You will come up with your own theory's and oponions.
I learn something new at least twice a day, and ask question pretty often myself.
The best place to start is JRP's list of stuff. You could spend 3 hours a night reading that stuff and not have it down in a month. A lot of the stuff you wont understand especially with cams, and cam design, but that is when you search or ask a question. Or just PM jrp he is normally willing to help someone out that is willing to take the time to learn. Trust me he had to explain some stuff to me.

35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

i hear ya i no i need some suspension work... i just figured its winter and i have some time to pul apart the car before i will be drivin it again. originaly i was juts goin to go with the MS3 btu then i saw the price of heads are goin down and while i am doin to cam i figured i would get heads too..... Now i am so lost i want to get a civic lol j/k . I just dont no what to do now. I no into the summer suspension work will be gettin done but rather then have the car down in the spring and summer i would figured do it now. I would love to go ETP's but very pricey. Now i am lost

35thls1ss19

iTrader: (1)

well i have read soem of jrp's but god those numbers get confuesing haha... but anyway thanks again for taking th etime to help me out and replyin to my post i really appreciate it..... now i just got to fig out how to get my car fast with the money i have and not blow it up!

Silverhawk_02TA

TSP makes a version of their PRC 2.5 5.3 heads to clear the MS3 cam. This is a quote from Jason from a similar thread:

"Nothing Funny about this Full-Force, I build the PRC MS3 friendly heads specific with the valves setup so it clears. With extra time working on the heads & playing with the short turn you can get the cylinder heads to still flow well with valves sunk for better p/v.... "

You can read the thread here: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/434434-ms3-patriot-stage-ii-ls6-heads-flycutting.html

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

There you go another solid option. The 5.3's will give around 10.8:1 compression.