Education in Forced Induction 101
01-17-2006, 01:10 PM
#1
Education in Forced Induction 101 Just trying to understand Forced induction in a Whole, basically superchargers for that matter. Hopefully there can be enough information in this Thread to educate myself and anyone else who is interested in Forced Induction (FI)
Here is what I Know (I THINK ANYWAYS)
Procharger which is a centrifugal supercharger doesn't really affect Fuel economy until RPM is given, with more RPM=more fuel=decreased gas mileage. Procharger stats that most of there chargers are self contained and you are suppose to change the oil every 6,000 miles.
Heres a Question can I use regular motor oil or just Procharger based Oil???? Also how is the oil changed is there a plug in the head unit that you just uncork like the motors oil pan???
As far as mounting a Supercharger here's what I come up with in my mind.
A Bracket is attatched to the block where the head unit is bolted on the bracket, a pulley is bolted on the Head unit where the Belt is ran. The Blower can be clocked (AKA clocking the blower) to have the inlet in the direction of the individuals perference. From there a Aluminum, Mild steel or Stainless steel piping can be connected by T-bolt clamps and high Temp silicon housing. The individual can run a assortment of Intercoolers, like a Custom Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) twin High flows from ATI or any other Air to Air setup (A2A). Vortech from what I know uses a Air to water setup (A2W) which uses water to cool the air. From the intercooler the pipe runs up to the Throttle Body (TB) connected with a MAF sensor, and as long as its BEFORE THE MAF SENSOR A BYPASS. Say like a Vortech mono bypass that I hear a lot about. From what I know this lets the charged air escape when the boost is not needed say at idle or when decelerating???
Air coming into the charger is from a Giant filter (Size of the FILTER matters apperantly) usually the filter is open to the outside air. The Air is powered through the filter and into a hat which is called the hat of the blower which is pushed into the impellers or the charger. From what I know the chargers have different Impellars some are designed with more curves than others, maybe somone can verify this????
What about the Intake air temperature sensor (IAT) can that be placed in the stock location???
Question, Is the belt ran with the rest of the engine accessory's (AC, PS, Alternator,etc) or is the belt ran off a different Crank balancer say one extended from the stock crank balancer, which would Mean 2 BELTS??
What does the internal setup mean like say a 4:10:1 internal ratio or a 4:70:1???
What does Reverse rotation do and why would you want that??
What exactly is a Meth injection kit???
From what I know they help cool the air from the charger or Turbo but what is it made up of, how much, were does it go, does it need refilled, ETC?????????
I hear about the Rib kits like 6 rib, 8 rib, and 12 rib from what I know bigger is better and for the Ls1 boys 8 rib is big as you can go and the LT1 guys can have the 12 rib setup (MORE ROOM APPARENTLY). From what I know the smaller ribs have belt problems and slippage. Possibly the bigger ribs run 2 belts???
People talk about pulleys and belt sizes, The smaller the pulley the more boost you can run on a given setup, where to you guys get your belts at for these setups I heard some people talking about gatorback belts????
When a kit is ordered how many pulleys come with it and how much are extra pulleys.
I hear that a 500 mile procharger breakin is neccessary for a Procharger. Does the user need to keep the RPM's down or can the individual drive it hard from the get go???? Does a Quick oil change in the charger need to be done (like a New built motor you change the oil after a Few hundred miles?)
When do you know that your Head unit say a P1 or D1 is maxed out and will not make anymore power does it have to deal with the RPM of the Blower??
CAN someone PLEASE explain to me what it means when a motor setup is So Effiecent that it needs a Bigger blower?
Example
(A) 383, AFR heads, custom cam, etc with a P1 only sees say 6lbs of boost
(B) 350, stock heads, custom cam, etc with a p1 sees 11lbs of boost
Ex (A) has a more efficent motor so the p1 is maxed out the person would need to run a D1 on the 383 to make 11lbs of boost. WHY IS THIS?????
Bob at Exotic Performance plus, I talked to you on the Phone about a week ago about the D1 setup (with no intercoolers, piping, Fuel injectors, FMU, etc) I will call you up at the end of the week or beginning of next week to order it. THANKS I APPRECIATE it.
Just wanted everyone to know that Bob Did help me out a lot, my knowlegde of this stuff is very limited but I am learning he took time and helped me out, Thanks man
Here is what I Know (I THINK ANYWAYS)
Procharger which is a centrifugal supercharger doesn't really affect Fuel economy until RPM is given, with more RPM=more fuel=decreased gas mileage. Procharger stats that most of there chargers are self contained and you are suppose to change the oil every 6,000 miles.
Heres a Question can I use regular motor oil or just Procharger based Oil???? Also how is the oil changed is there a plug in the head unit that you just uncork like the motors oil pan???
As far as mounting a Supercharger here's what I come up with in my mind.
A Bracket is attatched to the block where the head unit is bolted on the bracket, a pulley is bolted on the Head unit where the Belt is ran. The Blower can be clocked (AKA clocking the blower) to have the inlet in the direction of the individuals perference. From there a Aluminum, Mild steel or Stainless steel piping can be connected by T-bolt clamps and high Temp silicon housing. The individual can run a assortment of Intercoolers, like a Custom Front Mount Intercooler (FMIC) twin High flows from ATI or any other Air to Air setup (A2A). Vortech from what I know uses a Air to water setup (A2W) which uses water to cool the air. From the intercooler the pipe runs up to the Throttle Body (TB) connected with a MAF sensor, and as long as its BEFORE THE MAF SENSOR A BYPASS. Say like a Vortech mono bypass that I hear a lot about. From what I know this lets the charged air escape when the boost is not needed say at idle or when decelerating???
Air coming into the charger is from a Giant filter (Size of the FILTER matters apperantly) usually the filter is open to the outside air. The Air is powered through the filter and into a hat which is called the hat of the blower which is pushed into the impellers or the charger. From what I know the chargers have different Impellars some are designed with more curves than others, maybe somone can verify this????
What about the Intake air temperature sensor (IAT) can that be placed in the stock location???
Question, Is the belt ran with the rest of the engine accessory's (AC, PS, Alternator,etc) or is the belt ran off a different Crank balancer say one extended from the stock crank balancer, which would Mean 2 BELTS??
What does the internal setup mean like say a 4:10:1 internal ratio or a 4:70:1???
What does Reverse rotation do and why would you want that??
What exactly is a Meth injection kit???
From what I know they help cool the air from the charger or Turbo but what is it made up of, how much, were does it go, does it need refilled, ETC?????????
I hear about the Rib kits like 6 rib, 8 rib, and 12 rib from what I know bigger is better and for the Ls1 boys 8 rib is big as you can go and the LT1 guys can have the 12 rib setup (MORE ROOM APPARENTLY). From what I know the smaller ribs have belt problems and slippage. Possibly the bigger ribs run 2 belts???
People talk about pulleys and belt sizes, The smaller the pulley the more boost you can run on a given setup, where to you guys get your belts at for these setups I heard some people talking about gatorback belts????
When a kit is ordered how many pulleys come with it and how much are extra pulleys.
I hear that a 500 mile procharger breakin is neccessary for a Procharger. Does the user need to keep the RPM's down or can the individual drive it hard from the get go???? Does a Quick oil change in the charger need to be done (like a New built motor you change the oil after a Few hundred miles?)
When do you know that your Head unit say a P1 or D1 is maxed out and will not make anymore power does it have to deal with the RPM of the Blower??
CAN someone PLEASE explain to me what it means when a motor setup is So Effiecent that it needs a Bigger blower?
Example
(A) 383, AFR heads, custom cam, etc with a P1 only sees say 6lbs of boost
(B) 350, stock heads, custom cam, etc with a p1 sees 11lbs of boost
Ex (A) has a more efficent motor so the p1 is maxed out the person would need to run a D1 on the 383 to make 11lbs of boost. WHY IS THIS?????
Bob at Exotic Performance plus, I talked to you on the Phone about a week ago about the D1 setup (with no intercoolers, piping, Fuel injectors, FMU, etc) I will call you up at the end of the week or beginning of next week to order it. THANKS I APPRECIATE it.
Just wanted everyone to know that Bob Did help me out a lot, my knowlegde of this stuff is very limited but I am learning he took time and helped me out, Thanks man
01-17-2006, 01:22 PM
#2
Something to add dealing with compression ratio (CR) I Usually see people run a 8.5-9.5 compression on a Built motor with boost. I see people all the time run 6lbs or more on a high compression motor. What is a safe boost level for say a 9.5 compression compared to a 8.5 compression
I copied this from Procharger
Boost levels above 12 psi should generally be avoided even with racing fuel on a 9.5:1 motor. Of course, lower compression motors will be able to run more boost, and higher compression motors should run less boost, everything else being equal
I want to run around 8-14lbs on a D1 with my 383, AFR heads, etc but I don't want to run race gas just strictly pump gas good ole 93 octane. If it matters it will be backed by a FMIC and a open Front bumper cover to let open air cool the intercooler, which sould definatly help, I would think.
I copied this from Procharger
Boost levels above 12 psi should generally be avoided even with racing fuel on a 9.5:1 motor. Of course, lower compression motors will be able to run more boost, and higher compression motors should run less boost, everything else being equal
I want to run around 8-14lbs on a D1 with my 383, AFR heads, etc but I don't want to run race gas just strictly pump gas good ole 93 octane. If it matters it will be backed by a FMIC and a open Front bumper cover to let open air cool the intercooler, which sould definatly help, I would think.
01-17-2006, 01:31 PM
#3
I read a little bit of it and I'll answer a few questions that I know.
IAT sensor cannot be kept in stock location since it is in your airbox unless you have a corvette, then it's part of the maf.
The different rib's are the amount of grooves in the pulley. The more grooves the bigger the belt, the bigger the contact path, the more friction, the better grip, the less slip, haha.
I believe the procharger's use two different belts and you need a different balancer such as the ati superdampener.
Methanol injection is "similar" to nitrous in the fact that it is in a bottle and is sprayed to cool the air. However nitrous carries lots of oxygen (n20) which gives the power, whereas methanol is just a cool gas.
Head unit's are rated at a max impellar speed. You can determine it with the gear ratio (inside the supercharger) the pulley's used, and the rpm at which the engine is at. That's how you max out a head unit.
Well look at it this way. When you have a bigger engine like a 383 or something you are moving more air at less pressure. Basically 10psi on a 346ci motor is not 10psi on a 427. The same air is being used but the 427 requires more air to operate at the same engine speed.
Now I'm not an expert by no means so some of my answers may need some tweaking, but I'd say that's a good general answer to your questions.
IAT sensor cannot be kept in stock location since it is in your airbox unless you have a corvette, then it's part of the maf.
The different rib's are the amount of grooves in the pulley. The more grooves the bigger the belt, the bigger the contact path, the more friction, the better grip, the less slip, haha.
I believe the procharger's use two different belts and you need a different balancer such as the ati superdampener.
Methanol injection is "similar" to nitrous in the fact that it is in a bottle and is sprayed to cool the air. However nitrous carries lots of oxygen (n20) which gives the power, whereas methanol is just a cool gas.
Head unit's are rated at a max impellar speed. You can determine it with the gear ratio (inside the supercharger) the pulley's used, and the rpm at which the engine is at. That's how you max out a head unit.
Well look at it this way. When you have a bigger engine like a 383 or something you are moving more air at less pressure. Basically 10psi on a 346ci motor is not 10psi on a 427. The same air is being used but the 427 requires more air to operate at the same engine speed.
Now I'm not an expert by no means so some of my answers may need some tweaking, but I'd say that's a good general answer to your questions.
01-17-2006, 01:33 PM
#4
Originally Posted by T/A KID
Something to add dealing with compression ratio (CR) I Usually see people run a 8.5-9.5 compression on a Built motor with boost. I see people all the time run 6lbs or more on a high compression motor. What is a safe boost level for say a 9.5 compression compared to a 8.5 compression
I copied this from Procharger
Boost levels above 12 psi should generally be avoided even with racing fuel on a 9.5:1 motor. Of course, lower compression motors will be able to run more boost, and higher compression motors should run less boost, everything else being equal
I want to run around 8-14lbs on a D1 with my 383, AFR heads, etc but I don't want to run race gas just strictly pump gas good ole 93 octane. If it matters it will be backed by a FMIC and a open Front bumper cover to let open air cool the intercooler, which sould definatly help, I would think.
I copied this from Procharger
Boost levels above 12 psi should generally be avoided even with racing fuel on a 9.5:1 motor. Of course, lower compression motors will be able to run more boost, and higher compression motors should run less boost, everything else being equal
I want to run around 8-14lbs on a D1 with my 383, AFR heads, etc but I don't want to run race gas just strictly pump gas good ole 93 octane. If it matters it will be backed by a FMIC and a open Front bumper cover to let open air cool the intercooler, which sould definatly help, I would think.
01-17-2006, 04:41 PM
#5
I suggest a copy of Corky Bell's book "Supercharged", or if you want to go turbo, his book "Maximum Boost" is also excellent. All the questions you ask and many more will be answered.
I have both and they helped me design and build my blown, intercooled 383 and get it running like a raped ape.
For tuning, I really like Jeff Hartman's book on Engine Management Systems.
All available through Amazon for under about $20.
Jim
I have both and they helped me design and build my blown, intercooled 383 and get it running like a raped ape.
For tuning, I really like Jeff Hartman's book on Engine Management Systems.
All available through Amazon for under about $20.
Jim
