THE LAST Z

iTrader: (5)

Are there any 15" drag wheels that will fit without grinding the calipers?
Bogart maybe?

Matt D

iTrader: (49)

Bogarts and Centerlines

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

We build our Bogart wheels LS1 specific! We do not have "one size fits most"...we do not have part numbers, our Bogarts are truely custom built.

Viewing the customer gallery gives you a good idea of our wheels on f-bodies.

Let me know if you need any assistance. Please e-mail or call us.

Steve

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

get the convo pros they are much cheaper and very light too, great bang for your buck...

LS69TA

iTrader: (30)

The Convo Pros stick out alot though. But they're pretty cheap.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

Centerline wheels are the heaviest of all drag wheels between weld and ours...they do not offer a wheel with the correct backspace which are meant for 26, 27 x11.5 or 275/50 tires. 8 inch wheels should not be an option...for the folks considering wheels, do NOT choose an 8 inch wheel for the above tire sizes. You NEED a 10 inch wheel.

If your looking at economy...I'd suggest the weld prostar. If you want a MUCH higher quality wheel that is ~30% lighter and built for your car, our Bogart wheels are the best choice. Due to centerline options and weight, they would not be a good choice of consideration with an F-body in my book.

For the guys trying to loose weight, don't overlook our wheels... choosing a set of prostars on your car is like literally adding a converted ~50 lbs of static weight on your car! A lighter wheel has a large benifit...shorter stopping distances and faster acceleration are both some benifits that will be seen. Rotational losses can be substantial.

Appearance is another area of considering...not trying to start a war here, there is NO comparison from an appearance and quality standpoint looking at our high-end wheels...I'd even add weld high-end wheels in this one...Comparing them to any weld economy wheel such as a prostar or the centerline drag series really shows their differences. Pictures cannot show these differences, in person, the differences are obvious. If you care about the appearance, wheels make the car. Its funny how we see guys state that weld high-end wheels or our wheels are too expensive...but yet we see folks spending at least as much as the wheels cost on other aftermarket 17 inch wheels since they want something that makes their car look great.

The best part is of our wheels is knowing the wheels are made for the car specifically, they are high-quality and the lightest direct fit wheel out there...you DO get what you pay for!

Steve

Tranzor

Just a question... why do we "need" a 10 inch wheel, when the measured wheel sizes for tires like 275/50/15 or 275/60/15 (talking stuff like ET Street radials and BFG drag radials) are measured on an 8" wheel? Wouldn't those tires look odd stretched over a 10" wheel when the tire manufacturer recommends an 8"?

I've looked at a lot of wheels lately and Bogart 15x8s or Centerline 15x8s are something I've considered because every tire I've looked at only requires an 8" wheel... every tire that requires a 10" wheel are too big for me to fit unless I did extensive wheel well modification (i.e. beat the life outta of it with the BFH).

LS69TA

iTrader: (30)

Probably don't need a 10" wheel, but it looks better IMO. There are plenty of fast guys on 8" wheels. I just wanted a wider rim. My 275/50 Nittos looked pretty good on the 10" rim. They were just a hair wider than the rim if I remember right.

Tranzor

And that's fine if they look better... but to say we "need" a 10" wheel for 275/60/15, 26x10x15 or 28x11x15 tire is a little misleading when most tire manufacturers take their specifications from a tire that size being mounted on an 8" wheel. Here's some examples of 275/60/15 tires:

MT ET Street Drag Radial:

Tire Compound: R2
Tire Overall Diameter: 28.0''
Average Roll Out/
Circumference: 87''
Tire Tread Width: 8.9''
Tire Section Width: 11.1''
Wheel Diameter: 15''
Spec Wheel Width: 8''
Tire Weight: 32.0 lbs
Size Equivalent: 28'' x 11.50'' - 15''

BFG Drag Radial:

Tire Section Width on
Measuring Wheel Width*: 11.1'' on 8.0'' Wheel
Tire Overall Diameter: 28.0''
New Tire Roll Out/
Circumference: 88.0''
Tire Tread Depth 1/4''
Wheel Diameter: 15''
Required
Wheel Width: 7.5'' - 9.5''
Revolutions per Mile
at 45-MPH: 743.0
Max Load (lbs@psi): 2149 lbs. @ 44 psi

Nitto Drag Radial:

Tread Depth: 6/32''
Tire Overall Diameter: 27.76''
Tire Section Width: 11.10''
Wheel Diameter: 15''
Spec Wheel Width: 7.5-8.0-9.5''
Max Load @ Max Press: 2150 lbs @ 44 psi
Revs Per Mile: 748

M&H Drag Radial:

Tire Overall Diameter: 28.0''
Average Roll Out/
Circumference: 88''
Tire Tread Width: 8.8''
Tire Section Width: 11.7''
Wheel Diameter: 15''
Required
Wheel Width: 8.5''

LS69TA

iTrader: (30)

Yea, I think it's more of a 'want' than a need. There are cars in the single digits on 8" rims.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

no it is not misleading...you guys NEED to be putting these tires that I have mentioned on a 10 inch wheel NOT an 8. Please also see the tires that I am discussing...they are designed for larger wheels not 8's. These tires are the standard tires 90% of the guys are running on F-bodies. THe 275/60 as referred to above (which I did not include) does work better on an 8 inch wheel...not as many use this tire. When referring to specs, check them from the manufacture...not from summit or jegs...both mention different specs from the top of my head...go to the source. When a tire has a bead width of 10 inches, sidewall width of 11-13 inches and tread width of 10 inches...you should be putting them on recommended wheels. Wheels smaller then 8.5 is really too small. If you're running anyone of the ones that i've mentioned on an 8, you are running too small of a wheel. If you want to run an 8 inch wheel...then you NEED to be running a smaller tire.

Furthermore, trying to stuff a large 275/50, 26 or 27x11.5 on these small wheels that are not ours...using the too small backspace of 5.5 pushes the wheel outward too far from the fender which looks odd and is not centered correctly in the wheel-well area. The sidewall is bulged inward too much from the small wheel...and the tread area is effected. IF I designed an 8 inch wheel for an F-body, we would put it closer to the stock BS which is ~6.25 inches. Weld and centerline only offers 5.5 which is 3/4 of an inch sticking out too far right from the bat.

There's a sticky on using 315's on a 9.5 wheel...this is the same scenerio...don't run too large of a tire on a small wheel.

Again, not trying to create an arguement...just suggestions to run the correct parts...also seeing you guys running these pepboys tires, futura etc or the like front radials are not using the correct wheels...if you guys are doing it to save money...I certainly can see a better way to save money over safety concerns considering this is the front tire and if it fails you will not have very good steering left over.

Matt D

iTrader: (49)

That is untrue. What you should have said was, if you feel like spending more than double the price for a rim that is not intended for street driving, and is only a few pounds lighter than Weld's wheels, than go with Bogarts.

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

Matt, the Welds aren't intended for street driving either

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

It is not only a few lbs lighter...it is much lighter. Take a weld prostar wheel combo, the lugs are longer, which are quite heavy…the wheel w/spacer is about 15 lbs. Our shanks are shorter and lighter, our rear wheel which is direct for an f-body is no more then 11 lbs for an LS1…some designs are MUCH lighter then that. That’s a MIN of 8 lbs of rotating mass from the rears that you are saving by using our rear wheels alone!

…Our Bogart wheels are worth the price in performance, fit and finish! Certainly I feel our wheels are best...but for what it is worth, the high-end weld wheels are almost the same price as our wheels... ...the high-end weld wheels blow away their economy prostar/draglite combo... ...they ARE more then double the price of their counterpart prostar wheel....why is that? Because they are most certainly designed better, lighter and have much greater benefits over their economy wheel. Their high-end wheels ARE are right in line with our prices. The differences between a high-ended weld wheel and ours still lie in the fact that our wheels are built for the car, style for style, the lightest on the market and a direct fit wheel.

As mentioned before, none of the welds runners are designed for street use… When I see guys commenting that their weld or centerline wheels are street legal…I am not sure what information they are seeing this from as it is clearly marked on the wheel itself “for drag race use only”….NONE of their runners are legal. The rears...SOME are approved but the problem is the high-stress loads are put on the fronts...which is what you should be worrying about. LESS then 5 rear wheels EVER off the top of my head were ever damaged from use on an F-body. Certainly our wheels are not indestructible...I'd say this is a very good durability rate considering I've been building the wheels for F-bodies specifically for approx 5 years.

So are we worth the price. Most definitely!! Fit, style, performance are all areas of importance.

Lets take just a fitment standpoint…how many posts are there from guys asking how much grinding for weld prostars…”I ground so much already”…I still need more”, “ how do you get these to fit”. For the ones whom own our wheels…they know, when they pick it up…sure 4-5 lbs/wheel doesn’t seem like much BUT when they pick it up…they usually think to themselves…man these are so much lighter!!

Performance…as mentioned, a lighter rotating mass will make the car brake better as it has to overcome less inertia or mass. I can’t tell you how many times I see guys wanting to stop shorter or better…well putting a heavy wheel on doesn’t help, I can assure you this.

Studs….prostars have VERY thick centers….add this to the spacer that you need so you don’t have to grind your calipers to nothing…then the wheel is SUPER thick. You NEED a 3 inch stud to barely pass tech. Those super long studs look pretty terrible on aftermarket or stock wheels….our wheels have thinner centers so you do not need super long studs.

It comes down to this…if you want the best then our wheels fit the bill. Not willing to spend a bit more to get a better suited setup…then stick with economy. The argument of the fact that our wheels are not much different is completely not true. The argument that our wheels are the most expensive is not true…this is shown as welds high-end wheels are right in line with ours. The differences are big, the gains are real, the appearance is apparent when comparing a low-economy style wheel to ours.

Matt D

iTrader: (49)

I don't use spacers, and longer studs are required by NHRA regardless if you have a Bogart or Weld. I personally don't like the looks of Bogarts. I am an old school guy and love the look of Prostars and Draglites on a F-Body. That's great about the static weight. I am fully aware of the difference and can appreciate it. All I am saying is, you can get the welds for a decent price and with all of that money left over, you can buy something else to put on your car that will more than make up for those few pounds of static weight that you will lose.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

I can appreciate your tastes and your economy budgeted thoughts.

I am pointing out that weld high-ended wheels as well as our wheels have a great benefit over an economy built wheel. Certainly they are more expensive but they are worth it. There are benefits that are seen. Our wheels are not out-priced by far, there are plenty of more expensive wheels that well exceed the cost of our wheels.

I am jumping on this post since your initial comments made a suggestion that our wheels are not worth the price...I suggest our wheels as well as weld alumastars 2's for example are VERY close priced...they are out of your price-range obviously but have benefits that you are overlooking creating a blanketed statement that can be completely misleading.

It is not a few pounds difference we are considering...A converted static weight of say 50 lbs is hard to argue. Static and rotation weight is not equivalent. For some folks (possibly even you) whom are not aware of static and rotational conversions, general equivalency is between 1-4, 8, meaning for every ONE pound of rotational weight loss is equivalent to 4-8 lbs of static weight. I state this generally as depending on the wheel and WHERE the weight is placed makes a world of difference. So lets take that mere min of 4 lbs PER wheel that ours is lighter…well that translates into a MIN of 32 lbs of static weight of the rear wheels. For simplicity…I won’t take into consideration of where our weight is concentrated in comparison to others.

Here's an important question for you and some others who may not see soem benifits…Let me ask you this, how much does a k-member cost and how much does it save in weight??? Is a k-member not worth the small weight loss? The 30 lbs of weight loss you saved by purchasing a k-member and not splurging on lighter wheels leaving all that weight on your car, was that a good decision? Obviously if weight is a concern, you’d do both modifications…by overlooking anyone of them, you are missing quite a bit as they all add up in the end!

… I’m adding these analogies so that maybe (not you since you have made your mind up already)…others can see there are substantial differences in a high-ended quality wheel over an economy wheel.

The comment regarding stud lengths is incorrect...Weld prostars or Draglites require very long studs...longer then most wheel to pass tech ESPECIALLY if your using spacers which most use since they don't want to grind the calipers away. NHRA does not require longer studs on drag wheels; they require the studs to pass through the hex portion of the lug the diameter of the stud.

Why does the prostar or draglite require such long studs, it is due to the two stamped pieces of aluminum sandwiched between a free-moving spacer which in the end leaves a very wide design. Depending on how we build the wheel....standard stock studs can be plenty long. A weld prostar wheel...the stock stud barely reaches halfway through the wheel...you need 3 inch studs.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

If someone does not want to touch their calipers, they should look into:

Bogart
Centerline

With Welds you have to run a 5/16 spacer up front, which is not ideal and will kick the wheels out a bit.

The downside of the Centerlines would be that some rears will stick out, and some stick out way too much.

The downside of the Bogarts is that they appear to be around $1600 retail now, and other products are more around $800-900. But they fit better and are a better looking wheel. If there is a hidden plus, they also hold their value the best.

SJM Manufacturing Inc

iTrader: (5)

I would like to reiterate that weld does produce high-ended wheels that are priced right in line of our pricing. But their designs have a smaller limited backspace options as well as they still are not design specific. The gains seen with these wheels will be seen over the 800-900.00 dollar wheels.

This disussion is getting a bit out of hand. We need to compare apples to apples. We could go on and on all day about why in the world would you spend 100,000.00 on a Ferrari when you can have a 10,000.00 Geo Metro.

Matt D

iTrader: (49)

I would never spend 10,000 on a Geo Metro

Just kidding Steve. Have a good weekend

98Ztwentyeight

iTrader: (2)

Main Entry: bogart
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: to bully someone into giving something up
Example: He tried to bogart his way in.
Etymology: probably from Humphrey Bogart, US actor

we want 15" rims that fit without grinding

they make a 15" rim that fits perfectly and all we have to do

is give up lots of cash! if the name fits wear it!

they have the market cornered! the demand for these types

of rims isnt as huge as it would need to be for them to mass

produce these and lower the price. They do keep their resale value!

and that should definatly be considered when making a purchase!