Generation IV Internal Engine - Why is GM continuously screwing up...Solstice

GM has moments of brilliance...LS7 Z06...then tons of blunders that financially kick them in the nuts...is their marketing that bad?

The Solstice should have the LS2 as an engine option...blow the competition away...not bring it out as a pooch and then give it a new turbo engine...that is still a pooch. People would check the $5000 option box of a $20k car to have the LS2 inside. Not let the aftermarket do it. My coworkers are all buying Miatas and that is the better choice but it shouldnt even be close. GM wants to be mediocre.

That new Tahoe is bland and still a pooch. No reason the Hemi motor is top dog over GM trucks/SUVs...a 350-400hp LS2 should be an option....just like the Duramax in the Suburban/Avalanche. Most people here have long switched over to Titans which is a much better pickup. An SS Avalanche with a 350hp 6.0L should have been out years ago. And now the trailblazer SS comes out and its competition has 425hp...loses in every performance catagory to the JEEP SRT8. 395hp is playing catchup...making us soup them up the right way.

Its bad enough their designs are bland (chevy cars) but when you have all that HP in your arsenal and dont use it...they deserve to be in financial trouble. A new Camaro is an disaster waiting to happen.

What do you guys really think is the problem?

Guys like us arent the President of GM?

GM is ruled by weenies and is slowly dying like the rest of American manufacturering :(

Actually, that grassroots motorsports mag took 3 cars out to a road race track and did a time comparison. A stock Solstice, a new Miata, and a 99 race prepped modded Miata. The Solstice (not even a turbo one) blew the doors off of the new Miata and was almost running the same track times as the older model that was actually a fast track car. I don't know what your beef is or were you get the idea the new miata is a better car. Sure, it'd be cool with a V8, but I'm sure its a fun car as it is.

Because they know the aftermarket competitiors will do it anyways. Go see the Mallet Solstice. He already did it and offers it.

Last i heard the miata isn't the world's top-selling entry-level two-seat roadster, the solstice is according to the Automotive News today. You have to remember the people who buy that type of car, they aren't looking for a corvette.

I know it's hard to believe, but I doubt GM is looking to get the quickest 1/4 mile times out of every vehicle in their lineup. It would be nice if a Solstice with an LS2 was an option, but that's not what that cars target market is looking for. It's supposed to be a cheap, fun, roadster; not a monster on the dragstrip. If you could buy a 400hp Solstice for 25K, how could GM possible justify charging double that for a slower Vette? I know the gearheads want the most possible power in every vehicle, unfortunately the majority of buyers aren't looking for the same thing.

I like the Solstice...but like all the magazines say...hp/TQ would make it blow away the competition. If their target audience doesnt want it..fine...but make it an option for a NEW audience. That Mallett Solstice is BAD ASS.

The Sostice isnt top selling anything...they didnt plan on making many..13k/yr?..and they cant even make them.. GM could sell 50k but they dont want to.

I hear what your saying, but GM would probably say- if you want an LS2 vert, they have one, the C6 vert. On a good note, the Solstice will probably be great fun w/ the turbo! :)

If the Solstice came out with an LS2 as an option, there is no way in Hell it would be less than the Corvette....and likely detuned....

EDIT - Oh, and also the fact that it is the most hideous thing since the Aztek doesn't help either....

I like the Sky better than a Soltice. Has anyone seen a license plate on the front of one yet? I bet that has to look worse than our cars. I do like the fact that they are light and almost 50/50 weight distribution. That would make a fun daily driver.

The one I sat in at the Midlands show had a front liscence plate holder and yes, it looked very out of place.

GM understands that the demographic that buys a Solstice is not interested in tire roasting insane power. Those people are looking for a peppy little car that is fun to drive. People aren't going to drag race these things.

As far as the Tahoe is concerned, there is a reason Chevrolet sells so many of these damn things and it's because they are extremely refined vehicles. They sell themselves - go drive a Tahoe and then go drive an Expedition and I guarantee you will pick the Tahoe. The previous Tahoe model was a damn good truck, I can't imagine how nice this version will be. They also have plenty of power for what they are - again people who buy these don't care that their Tahoe doesn't run 13s stock, they aren't racing them, they are looking for decent acceleration/passing power, comfort, and reliability.

The SS Silverado is a nice truck. I was a little disappointed that it didn't have more power, but look how many more GM sells than Ford did with the Lightning. It is a much more practical vehicle.

Solstice is selling very well.

GM has already announced the turbocharged 260 hp solstice GXP. Should cost about 4 grand more than the stock 177hp version..(plus the cost of various standard items versus the optional items...)

I don't see the need for the LS2 version. I think the turbocharged version makes more sense...(Y have two ls2 convertible two seaters)

I believe this is a smarter way for GM to go.

The price performance ratio for small 2 seat sportsters such as the Solstice and Solstice GXP adds to the customer mix rather than having an ls2 solstice competing with the Corvette convertible...

Remember these are both 2 seaters..

Next bring in the 2 + 2 camaro and GTO powered by the LS2 makes an additional customer list...

Then add in the CTS V four door luxury sports sedan..

and you're getting an additional market segment...

What GM really needs is a four door rwd automatic low 30 sedan powered by ls2. Ie..Future Impala possibly?

I agree that sticking with an I-4, whether super or turbo charged, is the smart idea, but I'm one of those guys that'd still love to see a 9,000 rpm 602ci under the hood....maybe even a supercharger sticking up thru the hood...

Last i heard the miata isn't the world's top-selling entry-level two-seat roadster, the solstice is according to the Automotive News today. You have to remember the people who buy that type of car, they aren't looking for a corvette.

Its top selling at least here in the US and in total it is the top selling roadster ever. They have sold over a million IIRC. The solstice was designed to compete with the miata and it has done so quite well. I have seen comparos of them numerous times and the miata usually comes out on top as it is slightly faster and handles better, but for GM to even put out a two seat entry level roadster is good. No one else has built anything to compete with the miata or take a chunk of the market except for Toyota, and the MR-S is gone now. I would like to see a V8 option as well, but at least there will be a good aftermarket for swapping them in as with miatas.

GM understands that the demographic that buys a Solstice is not interested in tire roasting insane power. Those people are looking for a peppy little car that is fun to drive. People aren't going to drag race these things.

As far as the Tahoe is concerned, there is a reason Chevrolet sells so many of these damn things and it's because they are extremely refined vehicles. They sell themselves - go drive a Tahoe and then go drive an Expedition and I guarantee you will pick the Tahoe. The previous Tahoe model was a damn good truck, I can't imagine how nice this version will be. They also have plenty of power for what they are - again people who buy these don't care that their Tahoe doesn't run 13s stock, they aren't racing them, they are looking for decent acceleration/passing power, comfort, and reliability.

The SS Silverado is a nice truck. I was a little disappointed that it didn't have more power, but look how many more GM sells than Ford did with the Lightning. It is a much more practical vehicle.

Im talking about new "demographics". Why only sell to people that want a convertible pooch? Why not steal all the 350Z and S2000 with parts you have laying around and that will fit? Miata buyers are loyal..I dont know why..but they wont be buying Solstices. Just like Mustang buyers...loyal as hell even though it only has 300hp.

I dont understand the Tahoe thing but I agree they sell a ton. The 295hp 5.3L is BARELY adequate in that heavy vehicle. If you have one, get some 4:10s, air intake and cat back...and you have a completely different vehicle. Forget about the 4.8L. Just make the 6.0L an option and brag that you have the most available HP. And Tahoes dont sell on looks...they sell on discounts.

GM has already announced the turbocharged 260 hp solstice GXP. Should cost about 4 grand more than the stock 177hp version..(plus the cost of various standard items versus the optional items...)



If this part is true, the turbo solstice will be anything but a pooch(not that a 260hp/260tq 2900lb car is exactly a pooch anyway). 28k loaded for a 260 horse roadster that looks amazing? Sounds good to me considering that undercuts the s2k by nearly 5 grand. The solstice needs a 6 speed in the base car but other than that its good.

The turbo version of the solstice will have a ton of potential. Anyone who goes to the track knows the performance potential of the SRT-4. The solstice will be just as capable if not faster due to its rear drive setup.

Gm would not be able to offer the ls2 as a 5k option. There is a lot more to making an ls2 soltice than just throwing the motor in.

GM is ruled by weenies and is slowly dying like the rest of American manufacturering :(
parish that thought. as much as i hate to say it its true. i would give anything to live one day in the late 60's when american horsepower ruled the streets. but now its like the exact opposite. cheap forgin lack of horsepower and liberal douches that drive them rule the street. its a very uncommon sight to see a high performance american muscle car on the streets now a days. and thats a sad sad reality that a lot of people, myself included are having a hard time swallowing.

I like the look of the New Solstice, at first I thought it was going to be something like a NEON....Not an SRT....but as time progressed and then they showed it....I was floored!! I like it.....If it wasnt for the fact I need a decent truck....(Thinking Dodge Dakota) I would buy one.....The only reason I said Dakota is, they look good....has a fair V-8 with full size truck towing capabilities.....

GM may not be on the ball but they do have "SOME" things decent still left.

It's funny how "car guys" vision of reality can be so skewed from actual reality.

Okay, let's look at the 1960s/1970s. There were some fast American muscle cars, definitely. HOWEVER, they still only made up a VERY small percentage of the total cars on the road. A ton of cars were RWD V8s, true, but the majority of them were inefficient pigs, driven by weenies.

Mind you, the Japanese have stepped up in a big way, and nabbed a big chunk of the young, stupid kid market, that IS a change since then, but the fact is, the VAST majority of cars sold have always been sold to weenies, by weenies.

In regard to the Solstice, it makes no sense from a marketing standpoint to sell an LS2 Solstice. Why would they sell a low margin car (which it is) vs. the much higher margin Corvette, especially when the Solstice would KILL it if optioned with similiar HP. GM won't make another GN mistake, you can count on that.

If anything, GM is finally catching on; what stops them from selling cars hasn't been lack of HP (actually, most of the GM cars/trucks are very competitive in HP, and especially torque), it's been lack of QUALITY (mostly interior quality) and mainstream accepted designs. They are slowly coming to grips on getting the interior quality up to par, and cutting down on the amount of plastic/cladding stuck on vehicles, as well as going to "modern" engines. All of these appeal to the everyday driving weenies, and will sell cars. It just sucks for us is all. At least there are still a few people there worried about building acceptable Halo cars.

Heck, my dealership HATES to see ppl wanting the Solstice.......Big, Big, backlog and waiting list!

Another GM blunder on the production side, OR somewhere in the chain.

Heck, my dealership HATES to see ppl wanting the Solstice.......Big, Big, backlog and waiting list!

No, That is good for GM. The demand is greater than the supply. That allows for GM to set the price at 20k and get 20k for it. If they had more cars than people wanted, then they would have to discount the car to move it. My buddy just got his Solstice sight unseen. He didn't even get his GM discount since there is soo much demand. That is what puts GM in the black.

No, That is good for GM. The demand is greater than the supply. That allows for GM to set the price at 20k and get 20k for it. If they had more cars than people wanted, then they would have to discount the car to move it. My buddy just got his Solstice sight unseen. He didn't even get his GM discount since there is soo much demand. That is what puts GM in the black.


Good for GM, but not good for GM salereps or customers......Excellent point, but you know how the American public is on conspicuous consumption.
I can understand the delay on Z06 specialty vehicles, but an ordinary production vehicle?????

2-sides to every story I suppose :jest:

That new Tahoe is bland and still a pooch. No reason the Hemi motor is top dog over GM trucks/SUVs...a 350-400hp LS2 should be an option....just like the Duramax in the Suburban/Avalanche. Most people here have long switched over to Titans which is a much better pickup. An SS Avalanche with a 350hp 6.0L should have been out years ago. And now the trailblazer SS comes out and its competition has 425hp...loses in every performance catagory to the JEEP SRT8. 395hp is playing catchup...making us soup them up the right way.

Its bad enough their designs are bland (chevy cars) but when you have all that HP in your arsenal and dont use it...they deserve to be in financial trouble. A new Camaro is an disaster waiting to happen.

What do you guys really think is the problem?

The 2007 Denali will have the new 6.2L rated at 385hp and 415-ft torque equipped with a 6-speed automatic. The engine also has displacement on demand for better fuel economy. The Escalade version will be rated at 400hp.

Have you actually driven a newer GM full size SUV or truck and other brands out there to base your opinion on? People love to rip on GM's SUV's and full size trucks but I can honestly say from experience they are some of the better ones out there. The GM interiors are much better than other comparable brand models out there including the Nissan Titan. The Titan engine does make good power, but it's mpg sucks compared to the GM engines. It's pretty sad when my full size SUV gets better mileage towing a vehicle than the Titan does with truck alone!

BTW - The Tahoe equipped with the 5.3 already comes equipped with 4.10's from the factory.

Here's some pics of the Solstice GXP I took at the Detroit auto show.

I agree.. GM needs to pull their pants up and put some damn power in these trucks! Whats wrong with putting the LS2 engines in these trucks, or getting 400+ hp out of them!? Its not that far away, and more hp will sell! I think GM could use some crash courses on Marketing!

I've drivin the new Solstice and quite honestly... It is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too small even for me.. I'm only 5'9 170, and I felt cramped... I wouldnt consider buying the car if it had an LS7 in it. (an LS1 would be scary as hell in this car, let alone the 7!). Sure its cool, but not for me. I'm not saying others wouldnt buy it, and its worth some consideration... Cost would be phenominal i'm guessing........

I say wait until the VVT/DOD 6.2's become available then offer a Trans-Am off of the Solistice frame with the DOD powerhouse (put it at 450hp) and sell the thing for 38 to 40k (right where the Convertable WS6 and Firehawks price ranges were back in 02).

The new 260hp turbo ecotec engine is no slouch.. and has virtually no lag.. I think its a great option.

If you want an LS2 then pay Mallet $18k and they will make one for ya :)

I would love to see GM do a version of the RWD 4 doors again. They sell like crazy over seas. Here in Kuwait they drive Lumina SS's which is a RWD Opel variant,( http://www.drivearabia.com/chevrolet/chevroletlumina06.html ) has the option of a M6 and is LSx driven. When I get back down to Kuwait I am gonna see about shipping one home.

Hmmm Looks Like a Holden from Ausy land....

Probably find a decent amount of parts for the 05/06 GTO's would be interchangeable for that little Chevy :)

hmmm 5.7 for the high end... maybe they are still using the 04 layout...

I would love to see GM do a version of the RWD 4 doors again. They sell like crazy over seas. Here in Kuwait they drive Lumina SS's which is a RWD Opel variant,( http://www.drivearabia.com/chevrolet/chevroletlumina06.html ) has the option of a M6 and is LSx driven. When I get back down to Kuwait I am gonna see about shipping one home.
so its basically a GTO with a sixer engine option and 4 doors. if you can get it cheaper than a Goat go for it. youll have a one of a kind chevy lumina.

It's funny how "car guys" vision of reality can be so skewed from actual reality.

Okay, let's look at the 1960s/1970s. There were some fast American muscle cars, definitely. HOWEVER, they still only made up a VERY small percentage of the total cars on the road. A ton of cars were RWD V8s, true, but the majority of them were inefficient pigs, driven by weenies.

Mind you, the Japanese have stepped up in a big way, and nabbed a big chunk of the young, stupid kid market, that IS a change since then, but the fact is, the VAST majority of cars sold have always been sold to weenies, by weenies.

In regard to the Solstice, it makes no sense from a marketing standpoint to sell an LS2 Solstice. Why would they sell a low margin car (which it is) vs. the much higher margin Corvette, especially when the Solstice would KILL it if optioned with similiar HP. GM won't make another GN mistake, you can count on that.

If anything, GM is finally catching on; what stops them from selling cars hasn't been lack of HP (actually, most of the GM cars/trucks are very competitive in HP, and especially torque), it's been lack of QUALITY (mostly interior quality) and mainstream accepted designs. They are slowly coming to grips on getting the interior quality up to par, and cutting down on the amount of plastic/cladding stuck on vehicles, as well as going to "modern" engines. All of these appeal to the everyday driving weenies, and will sell cars. It just sucks for us is all. At least there are still a few people there worried about building acceptable Halo cars.

You are way off man. GM trucks are underpowered and lack the towing capacity of the other brands. Looks are old and stale. They are followers and not leaders...they have the ammo but wont use it. The Colorado is embarrasing.

GN mistake? two years of a great car (intercooled) and Everyone wishes they would do it again. They need to make the GN mistake. More people can afford a $25k LS2 Solstice than a $50 C6...its all about volume.

The 2007 Denali will have the new 6.2L rated at 385hp and 415-ft torque equipped with a 6-speed automatic. The engine also has displacement on demand for better fuel economy. The Escalade version will be rated at 400hp.

Have you actually driven a newer GM full size SUV or truck and other brands out there to base your opinion on? People love to rip on GM's SUV's and full size trucks but I can honestly say from experience they are some of the better ones out there. The GM interiors are much better than other comparable brand models out there including the Nissan Titan. The Titan engine does make good power, but it's mpg sucks compared to the GM engines. It's pretty sad when my full size SUV gets better mileage towing a vehicle than the Titan does with truck alone!

BTW - The Tahoe equipped with the 5.3 already comes equipped with 4.10's from the factory.

Yes Ive driven them all..GM (which I own), Ford, Dodge and Nissan. All feel quicker than the GMs. The Nissan Titan is hands down a better truck than GM. I would guess the Armada is better than the Tahoe but I havent driven one. Titan interior is nicer too as is Ford. GM HVAC controls suck.

But I agree the GMs get a little better gas mileage than the rest...especially the Hemi and Titan. But I want GM to give the people the POWER option. For those of us that dont give a shit about 1 less MPG..we want the best. They can do it with the motors they have already. Not everyone can afford a Denali or Escalade like you so that isnt even up for debate. Make the 6.2L a $3000 option on the Avalanche and Tahoe let alone the Duramax. I would pay it.

If you think you can find a Tahoe with 4:10s you are dreaming...it took me a while to find an Avalanche with them. Most GMs come with 3.42s now for fuel economy. Drastic difference in acceleration. The 5.3L is 7 years old and can barely compete Powerwise with the competition. Make the people want GM.

The Silverado SS is a great idea...just underpowered for the money...and the Trailblazer SS would be tops 3 years ago...now its behind.

I wouldnt have let the press say the only problem with the Solstice is the power to weight ratio.

Here is another way of putting it.

I owned a 2001 Silverado Z71. In 2004 I drove GM, Ford 5.4L, Titan and Dodge Hemi. I bought an Avalanche because of its cab space..otherwise it would have been the Titan. All it needs is the 6.0L and better HVAC controls to be the best full size vehicle in my opinion. 4 Friends bought Titans..they went from Ford and GM trucks. 2 Friends bought new Fords..they are loyal and die hards. One went from GM to Dodge Hemi. Thats 8 Gm Silverado sales lost in the last 2 years.

Well I bought a Solstice today, and you cant imagine how many looks it gets. Its a black vert, with tan interior and they got the asking price +$2,000.

My wife and I have been looking at the Solstice since it was a concept, and fell in love with it back then. We now have two Trans Ams, an Expedition, and a Solstice. Talk about overkill. Anyways I told her the closest thing to an import she'll ever own while she's married to me is a Ford, and well she got an Expedition a few months ago. Anyways I'm happy with the price, I love the car, and I'm quite happy there isnt alot of them out there. Makes it worth it to cruise the car around and have people staring at ya.

Well dude I think you got a good looking car...definately unique...but im sorry you gave the dealer $2k...wish you could have paid that $2k for an LS2 option and had something inspiring and ass kicking like your other rides instead of getting smoked by honda accord V6s...

There is a red one running around here..in the winter...