LS1Bandit

Geez. I'm working on putting in an LS1 from an '01 Ram Air into my '78 T/A here in CA. This has to be approved by the smog referee once it's done, so I called the referee to get clarifications on a few things. I was expecting they'd be pretty strict, but I was hoping for at least a modicum of wiggle room. It was even worse than I was expecting.

First, he said that I'm going to have to change my entire dash !??!?! He said that since the donor vehicle had a digital dash that I either needed an executive order on the part I was going to use to convert the digital speed/tach to analog, or I'd need to put in the 2001 dash. Are you !@#% kidding me??

It just got uglier from there. I asked about the fact that my cats weren't going to be in precisely the same location as in the '01 for fit reasons. I assured him that all the necessary OBD-II pieces would be hooked up, the sniffer would pass, etc. He said that if the cats weren't in precisely the same location I can't do the conversion. ????

I'm going to try and get hold of another referee because that just seems ludicrous.

You'd think they'd try to help someone do this conversion since the LS1 is like 1000% better for emissions than my '78 400 and like twice as good in gas mileage. But clearly it's not about actual emissions, it's about supporting the bureaucracy.

-Dave

02NHRAtransAm

iTrader: (17)

yup .... ****** bastards!

GTObsessor

iTrader: (2)

Bingo... move to Nevada - problem solved.

Poltergeist

Try another Ref he obvisouly didn't have a clue what he was talking about. A motor change has nothing to do with the dash.

Formy

My God! What is it about this state that makes our lives a living hell????
If it passes smog WHO CARES ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE?????
What does the dash have to do with the smog?????

I think that Florida is really starting to look like a good option.

GTObsessor

iTrader: (2)

So does Nevada though - only two countys out of the entire state require a smog check for registration - but even the two that do - it's only ODB-II compliance...

SmokeySS

iTrader: (7)

Wow, that sounds like some intense bullcrap right there. Completely agree about it being better for emmisions, obviously, and all that jazz. How could you even expect to put the converters in the same place with a different car? Damn these referees are

BigDaddyBry

iTrader: (15)

Are you sure the dash didn't have something to do with maintaining correct odometer readings? It doesn't make sense that it would be a requirement for smog purposes.

Of course, if you talk to this guy on the phone, he's going to follow the law word for word and err on the side of caution, that's his job. You will probably have more wiggle room on test day.

One day, someone with money to spare will challenge laws like these in court. It makes no sense that you should be held to '01 smog standards instead of '78.

LS1Bandit

Well, he had all sorts of bizarre reasons for it, and said that he had just made someone else do the dash change. But I'm not sure this one is quite the same as that. He was talking about a cadillac vortec engine in a porsche and was saying something about climate controls being tied in with the computer and also talked about having the proper speed/odometer/etc.

Probably, but the problem is whether or not to count on that. I'd hate to lay out $15K and 3 months of work to do the conversion only to find that the conversion is illegal because I was unable to keep the cats in precisely the original location. Or to find out that after paying $23K doing a beautiful restoration on my '78 bandit I have to put in a 4th gen dash.

Certainly it's very frustrating that I'm making a massive step forward in emissions and they're making it hard for me to do that. But honestly I wouldn't even mind staying with '01 standards. What bugs me is the arbitrary nature of the CARB-certification, etc. The only thing that should matter is the sniffer test. You either put out low enough emissions to pass or you don't. It seems this should especially be true now that they're doing a full dyno for the smog test.

-Dave

vettezuki

iTrader: (8)

I'm doing a similar conversion for my 82' Corvette. I wouldn't blindly accept (you haven't obviously) what a beaurocrat says, as they have a tendency to rather overstate their power. I remember reading through the vehicle code governing engine swaps about a year ago, and I don't recall a single thing about requirements pertaining to instrumentation. So, when they say something like this, ask them for the section of the vehicle code that defines the regulation. If a law is not stipulated, it does not exist and can not be enforced. As for cats, that's a bit more of a problem. The EPA (Federal) law states quite clearly that one can not in any way move cats from their stock (relative to motor) locations. So I'd try to use the stock manifolds or E.O. numbered units (like B&B Shorties) with correct cats and fabricate around them. If it's a tiny modification to make them fit, something that'd be tough to spot with the eye, you might want to try and fly it through and see if they catch it. I think the worst they could do is send you back without approval.

86MC_SS

iTrader: (3)

Everything he states is 100% correct. As far as changing over the dash cluster you do not have to...the odometer on your car is for DMV purposes for keeping track of the chassis and engine but mainly the chassis. Call another ref get your facts straight before you bail out on this swap...

Bombguy99z28

Talk to another ref. You don't have to swap the dash. I'm glad the ones in San Diego aren't like that.

vettezuki

iTrader: (8)

Here are some official guidelines . . . something is conspicuously missing

http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/StdPage....s-Jan_1994.htm

Basically your requirements are:
Engine classification must match. Therefore a Gen I -> Gen III SBC is legit.
New Engine/Emission Controls >= year of target vehicle
New Engine/Emission Controls Emission Requirements >= year of "new" engine

This last point is where you'll have trouble if you've relocated the cats.

The only thing the guy might have meant, and he'd be correct, is that you must have a check engine light and diagnostic link when using a computer controlled engine, such as the LS1.

The only point that is a little vague to me would be the fuel evaporative system, as it's not part of the engine assembly, but fuel storage (as I understand it.) Personally, I'd try to pass without attempting to add the evaporative system.

LS1Bandit

Well I talked to the guy again after he talked to his supervisor. He said the dash thing didn't apply to my case. He said it does for some, when the dash is intricately tied to the computer. It has to do with the diagnostics and that's why it falls under the smog referee. But for this particular conversion, that's not the case. I need to make sure I have all the OBD-II hookups, I need a check engine light (I'm hoping something inconspicuous under the dash is OK) and he said that there is a *very small* amount of leeway in positioning of the cats.

He did say that I needed the evap line so that the OBD-II diagnostics would work correctly. I'm not sure he was positive about that though.

I'm moving forward on the conversion. My car was just delivered today (the restoration was done in PA). And it was dropped off at Synergy Motorsports, who is going to do the conversion for me.

So here's the body:




And here's the new heart:



I think this is gonna be pretty cool!

-Dave

GTObsessor

iTrader: (2)

^^^^^ that's gonna be freakin sexy. Good luck on the conversion! - just register it under a buddy in NV, then put LT's, and an ORX and it'll sound like it should

aram

iTrader: (7)

I just took my RX7 with a 2001 LS1 into the ref. You need to have all the stupid smog **** (evap, air, cats,etc..) hooked up and working and need an obd2 port and working check engine light.

The ref I went to was so clueless it was annoying. The first time I left there I passed the actually rolling emmisions test with amazingly low #'s. I wasn't passed because the ******* idiot couldn't "verify" my pcm was the correct one and he didn't believe my carb approved (with sticker) k&n fipk used its own little filter on the air pump intake tube and wanted to see the instructions. I also had 4 readiness tests not set. Right now I just need to get the readiness tests to set and i'm going back and getting mine done.

Hardest part about getting it legal is hooking up the evap, getting the stock cats to fit and the readiness tests/not setting any codes. Hint: there is a way to come up clean in the computer readiness tests without actually having any of the smog **** hooked up. As for the cat locations.. don't tell them anything they dont ask you and play dumb when you go there. If you move them.. make it look stock or wrap it with header wrap or something to hide that you moved them and if they ask just say thats how it was on your donor car. Luckily on my rx7 the stock cat pipes fit with only "some" work.

Mas280

iTrader: (2)

Arm waht did you do about the gas tank sensors?

Mike

Formy

That is going to be amazing when it is done. Old school look with modern convenience. When it is done you gotta let us know.