DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

I'm still waiting on my 408/ET 245's. When i finally get it i'm putting it in my truck seen below in the sig along with the whipple. The whipple will hopefully be ported out a little, adding larger injectors, asm longtube headers, NW90mm tb. I'm leaving the 4L80E alone for now. I'm planning to put a 3" blower pulley and I already have a 7.5" crank pulley. I should be spinning the whipple around 16000 peak rpm.

on my bone stock setup with the same pulley setup, i only made 416/478 and ran 13.066 1/4mi

what do you think I will make to the wheels and in the 1/4

dug

iTrader: (10)

How big is the whipple? Is it the same on they use on cobras and lightnings?

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

same size as the ford ones but it's a side mount not a top mount. 2.2 or 2.3L, can't remember.

Hemi Killer

iTrader: (6)

I thought the whipple wouldn't support a 408? I heard it could only crank out like 5lbs. boost and anymore than that would be too hot and not worth running. Just what I heard. I'd ask around.

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

i just can't understand that theory, though i've heard it before. How is adding boost to a motor NOT worth it when i already own the blower? Either way, I'll make more power than NOT having the blower right? I won't LOSE power.

Also, how can the same size blower on a ford 4.6L make 700rwhp? Granted, the mounting location is different, but.....

I was recently talking to a guy with a mustang with a kenne bell making 700 at the wheels on stock displacement.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

The motor will make only what the Whipple can support.I'd say 550rwhp or so.The intake charge will be very hot which you'll cool with the Meth(I definitely don't suggest) but the blower is too damn small.
Run Natural instead of the small whipple

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

so are we saying that running the 408 at 9:1cr N/A will be better than running the 408 with the whipple?

Please don't think i'm being argumentative, I am just looking for a plan.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

The simple question to your answer is 550rwhp is the max you'll see with the Whipple assuming the engine does around 400rwhp NA (at 6psi or 9psi, it doesn't matter and that explanation is later). If you went with a max effort NA setup, you'd be around 480. The Whipple 408 will make a lot more torque, but there are some things you need to realize... especially considering the 700rwhp that Cobras make are with a different blower (far more effecient) and with an optimized blower CFM rating/boost potential relative to the RPM run.

You won't make anywhere near 15lbs with the 408. With the current pulley, you might see 8-9psi. If you pulley it for more, you will not make any more power. Hell, I think if you lowered your boost down to 10-12PSI on your current setup and ran more timing, you'd make more horsepower, less torque, but more horsepower.

Why?

Ineffeciency of the blower at 18k+ RPM. The new Whipple 140AX 2.3L (of Cobra fame) is effecient to about 18k, but the older style starts falling off around 15-16k. What that means is that if you are pushing the blower really hard you will make more torque down low but your power will fall off up top. Ever see a Lightning with an Eaton pulley for another 5-6PSI and only increase power by 15HP and torque by 80? Same deal because it hits the RPM effeciency of the blower in the lower RPMs due to the pulley change, and it makes more torque but dies out on the big end. The Eaton is those trucks is a far cry from the Whipple, but they have the added advantage of having an intercooler to help lower the IAT2 temps, but if the blower is heat soaked do to overwork, no amount of intercooling, meth injection, or extra octane will help it make more power. Simply put, the Cobra can run 20psi and still spin the blower below 18K RPM as it screams toward 7 grand on the tach, meaning it will make peak power at redline, because that's where blower hits the highest effeciency of your curve. For drag racing, this is the ideal setup. For the street, you may want the boost to come in as strong as possible early to make midrange torque.

With the 408 and Whipple at 5-6psi (I don't think you'll be able to do more unless you lower your CR to 8.5:1 or run 103+ octane), but like I said above, you'll have to spin the blower out of its effecient range to run more boost, or limit you to an engine redline to something like 4800-5100RPM or risk overspinning it if you want to race. But if you want to spin it hard and keep the redline down, you'll make a ton of torque, but you won't make any magic horsepower numbers. Limiting the pulley ratio and spinning the motor higher will make more power, but you lose out in the big truck on rediculous torque.

Because you have a big truck, torque in the midrange will help get it going, but you won't be able to carry that very high because the blower will be overworked. Think about why the 2.3L works well on a 4.6L engine. Now, think about why the Whipple 3.3L is matched well to the 5.4L Ford and 5.7L LS1. Your 6.8L is too big for the 2.3L to be a race blower. Even the 3.3L might not be ideal if you are looking for a race motor. Either should be fine for a powerful street motor as either can provide plenty of midrange grunt.

Therefore, depending on what you want, the Whipple should do the trick for a street engine. Also, if you run 5-6psi (which I would advise without intercooling), you can run more timing on pump gas and that will make nearly the torque of 8-9psi with very low timing. The difference is that the engine can be revved higher (6k or so) and will provide a broader powerband that will move the truck more effectively. 550rwhp and 650rwtq that way. If you pulley for 8-9psi and run low timing (unless you have race fuel) you'll be limited to 5k RPM and you'll see probably 500rwhp and 670rwtq.

I'm basing this off my experience with the SOHC 5.4L in the Lightning/H-D and what I know of Twin Screws. Good luck.

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

wow, now that's an answer. Thank you very much. Maybe I should have mentioned, this IS my daily driver. I am primarily looking for a bad *** street truck. I will take it to the track of course and try to get the best et i can, but, that is not my primary goal. If it makes 550rwhp, I'll be very happy. I'm only making 416 now. Big, big difference. Next year I plan to go a different FI route, but, for now I'm gonna run the whipple instead of selling it. They only sell for like $1200 anyway.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

That is the long answer

Now here is a short answer. Run the 408 with the Whipple.Tune it without the Meth!
Why?

If you pop your expensive 408 because you want that extra 60-80hp because there is a fault in the Meth setup (which you had before).

We know you will be drag racing the hell out of this truck next year and doing back to back runs like you did last year. I still say ditch the Whipple and wait till you can put something more efficient on the motor.

Either way,it's your choice

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

the big problem here is, my motor could ship next week for all i know and i still have no plan. everytime i come up with a plan, it is torn apart. I agree that putting a larger blower or turbo is the best route. I will not argue this fact. I want to know, is it ok to run for a year or so N/A at the cr i'll be at?

8ALTNG

iTrader: (1)

It is fine to run that cr just N/A. I think that Don is right. With a engine like that, you dont want to be spraying a **** load of meth, which you would have to do with the whipple, and have something go wrong.

So juar run it N/A, have some fun and then next year or when ever you can afford some real FI get it

Keith

Use the 408 and the whipple. Then when you save enough money, let the whipple go and buy whatever FI you want next.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I'd at least try to run the Whipple at 4-5psi and see how the A/F looks. That could be safe enough to run it without the Meth injection at all, and just spray the meth on top for some added safety. If you have to pulley it close to what you are now to get 5psi, then it will probably be a time bomb waiting to explode meth or no meth.

And 416rwhp at 15psi tells me that the blower is seriously taxed. At 15psi on mine, granted with a forged bottom end at 8.6:1, Crower Stage 3 Cams, ported heads (that still only flow 230cfm), kooks headers, and a 12" S&B intake, I make 635rwhp @ 16psi with A/F of 11.5:1 and 14 deg timing. At the redline of 6 grand I'm pushing the blower at 18k RPM with my pulley combo.

So, you may not have much left in that Whipple. But, since you have it, bolt it on and try it at least.

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

I'm definately putting the whipple on. I should take that 15lbs of boost right out of my sig cause i've only done that a hand full of times. I max out at 11ish now. I've been talking to some ford guys who have lots of experience with this type of blower and they say there is a way to set up the meth so that if it fails for any reason, the whipple will go into boost bypass or whatever to prevent my **** from blowing up. They say it's relatively easy to do.

I still can't imagine why anyone would tell me to NOT use the blower that i already have. It makes no sense. It WILL give me more power all around and if I sell it, i'm only gonna get a grand or so for it. yippie!!! it's not like i have a Radix which sell used for $4000.

the highest i've spun the blower on this setup is about 16000rpm. I know it CAN be spun to 18-20,000 peak, but, i'm not planning to do that. I plan to use a 3" blower pulley and 7.5" crank pulley and shift at 5600rpm wot. That's 14000rpm. Don't care how many lbs of boost the gauge shows. I could care less. Of course, if 14000rpm's only shows 1lb of boost, then i'll agree that the whipple is a waste.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

There you go.

And yes, there is a boost by-pass built into the Whipple that is used when you let off the gas. I'd be interested to see how you could rig it to open automatically when the meth kit gives up the ghost.

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

I'll find out and let ya know. I'll be talking to the guy tomorrow i think.

Hemi Killer

iTrader: (6)

Good luck with the 408 + whipple. I didn't mean what I said in a bad way, thats just what I've heard before. Just trying to give ya a heads up!

DanaliHD

iTrader: (5)

ok, i've been thinking about the N/A idea. IF i decide to do that, would I need to make sure the builder knows before he puts a cam in it?

CHarris

iTrader: (5)

Dan,

I'd definitely go ahead and use the blower. Yes, it'll have limited top end power... but it should retain that crazy off idle torque from the boost. Might as well keep that as long as you can