Automotive News, Media & Press - No more GTOs!

better get one if you want one. http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060221/FREE/60221009/1041

Thats funny I was just about to post about that. GM better bring the Camaro back or they just lost a customer.

Make room for the T/A!!!!!!please.

hmmm, transam anyone?

i like the gto. i would buy one right now if i could afford it

Damn i didn't think they were going to drop it so soon. Weren't they going to change the body style of it in '07 or '08? If it goes they better bring back the Trans Am if not, then they better bring the GTO back with some more get the fuck out of my way style.
-Joel

Reasons the GTO never lived up to the hype:

1. Bad marketing... or no marketing at that.

2. Bland styling compared to it's rivals. GM should have styled it more closely to the HSV GTO/Monaro VXR if they wanted the car to be considered anything close to agressive or if they were smart (just brought the HSVized version over in the first place at least as an option)

3. Weak US dollar. GM originally wanted to sell the GTO for around 27 - 28k but because of a strong Aussie and weak US dollar, the price ballooned to 32k.

4. 350hp LS1 in it's 1st year despite the fact that all the smart people who could calculate power to weight ratios knew it would be slower than a 4th gen F-Body. I still remember the stupid naive people who tried to claim that it would be faster than a 4th gen just because they couldn't get over the fact that the F-Bodies replacement would be slower in a straight line.

5. Curb Weight. This sucker is built to tackle the rocky dirt outback which necessitates more sound deading material, a more rigid car etc... which all adds up in lbs.

6. IRS. Too many old timers bitched and moaned about the IRS because all they wanted was something that could go fast in a straight line. Oh well.

Hopfully the death of the GTO makes room for a rebirth of the Trans Am

This sucker is built to tackle the rocky dirt outback which necessitates more sound deading material, a more rigid car etc... which all adds up in lbs.
Damn, Matt, you just had to give me another reason to buy one. :)

Cant say I will miss it. Give us a new Firebird/Camaro duet....lets take the streets again....its okay to dream!

Damn, Matt, you just had to give me another reason to buy one. :)

LOL. You not gonna go chasing WRXs are you? :jest: Too bad you don't live in Oz. They sell an AWD version of the Monaro there called the Coupe 4. It's only available with the 4 speed automatic (no manual offered) and adds a few hundred lbs. to the already hefty 3800ish lbs. curb weight, but that sucker makes for a nice all weather crusier. Not to mention the body pieces make it look like one hell of an agressive car.

HSV Coupe 4:

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vz/main.asp?link=../vy2/coupe4_new/frame_main.htm

Not much of a surprise. Sharp car but just poorly marketed.

Hopfully the death of the GTO makes room for a rebirth of the Trans Am
:hail: OH, I hope you are right... :judge:

:( :( :(

Say its not so

Reasons the GTO never lived up to the hype:

1. Bad marketing... or no marketing at that.

2. Bland styling compared to it's rivals. GM should have styled it more closely to the HSV GTO/Monaro VXR if they wanted the car to be considered anything close to agressive or if they were smart (just brought the HSVized version over in the first place at least as an option)

3. Weak US dollar. GM originally wanted to sell the GTO for around 27 - 28k but because of a strong Aussie and weak US dollar, the price ballooned to 32k.

4. 350hp LS1 in it's 1st year despite the fact that all the smart people who could calculate power to weight ratios knew it would be slower than a 4th gen F-Body. I still remember the stupid naive people who tried to claim that it would be faster than a 4th gen just because they couldn't get over the fact that the F-Bodies replacement would be slower in a straight line.

5. Curb Weight. This sucker is built to tackle the rocky dirt outback which necessitates more sound deading material, a more rigid car etc... which all adds up in lbs.

6. IRS. Too many old timers bitched and moaned about the IRS because all they wanted was something that could go fast in a straight line. Oh well.



Each one is debatable but #1 is just wrong. Shit, GM made a freakin half hour show that aired at great expense with a GTO jumpimg on a boat. The one thing the GTO had plenty of was marketing. It just was not what the people wanted as a whole. Sure there are those that like it or even love it. But, it did not live up to it's name.

Let us hope and pray the Camaro (and hopefully Trans Am) live up to their names when GM brings them back.

Each one is debatable but #1 is just wrong. Shit, GM made a freakin half hour show that aired at great expense with a GTO jumpimg on a boat. The one thing the GTO had plenty of was marketing. It just was not what the people wanted as a whole. Sure there are those that like it or even love it. But, it did not live up to it's name.

Let us hope and pray the Camaro (and hopefully Trans Am) live up to their names when GM brings them back.

Uhh, no it's not wrong. GM did go ahead and release that video of the GTO jumping onto the boat but it was also a featurette for the rest of the Pontiac lineup. And while I saw a few ads here and there when the '04 first hit the scene (I still remember the "worth the wait" ad and the one with the GP GTP Comp G and Bonnie GXP all parked side by side in the garage) there was little to no TV advertising after that. GM got lazy as usual and while they appeared to be making a decent push at the vehicles launch, they got way too lazy and did little to get the word out on the GTO after '04. I don't think I can recall a TV ad for the '05s that should have let everyone know about the extra 50hp, .3L of displacement, split rear duals and hood scoops.

Bottom line, GM did make a push for the GTO in terms of TV spots... but ONLY at the beginning. There have been numerous magazine ads, but following the initial GTO TV spots, there was little to no exposure for the car on the tube.

prefer native american err...I mean, sad to see the goat go, it would've been nice to have some HSV styling options here to add to the appearance. It seems though that the gto got a pretty bad rap from a lot of us v8 guys that it was supposed to appeal to, removing it is freeing up resources for a very desired coupe, one possibly more desired than dare I say it, our camaro. But what could it possibly be? My guess is a firebird, which to me seems smart on the part of gm since birds and camaro's share a lot of parts, and have a very common aftermarket which the moddibility factor is a main reason our cars are so well liked by us. Seems it would save more money.

I don't know if you guys noticed this but when a new goat was announced how much comenting did you hear on it. When a new camaro was announced, how much did you hear, not just on this board, about how much a new firebird would also be wanted? I did like the GTO but I think it was a flawed campaign which led to its failure, why not start fresh with a new bird. GM just needs to make sure if and when a new fbody is released, a strong advertising campaign comes with it. One where we can all talk asking each other if we saw the new bird, or camaro commercial.

I hate to see the GTO nameplate die again because it used to be such a badass car but I have to say that I never cared much for the new goat styling. It's a nice all-round car but I never saw it as much of a performance car as the f-bods, I guess because of the styling and weight.

Do I hear Firebird :) !

I am usually not one to kill cars over styling, as everyone has different opinions about what does/does not look good. But sometimes things are dead obvious:

1) The Aztek joins the Gremlin as a candidate for ugliest vehicle ever.
2) The GTO looks like a Cavalier - bland, not sporty looking whatsoever. It is almost as sedate looking as a Camry.

I do not know what Pontiac is thinking in the styling department, but they are shooting themselves in the foot. The GTO could have been so frigging awesome and sharp. I would have bought one if not for the looks, and given that I stomached buying an STi, that says a lot.

Sad to see it go so soon. Id pimp a 2005 LS2 6spd in silver with all the added sport apperance package.

Uh, this isn't news.

This was stated repeatedly in 2003 before the car even hit our shores that it was only going to be a three year run. There's no way it would pass US crash regulations for 2007, this is the same thing that ended production of the Ford GT.

The Monaro (which is the GTO) also wasn't planned to go this long. Holden is engineering an entirely new chassis for all their large cars so all of them are being discontinued for new models. The strength of the Australian dollar on the US dollar is also making imports more expensive.

If GM really wasn't devoted to the project it could have been dropped easily in 2004 when it totally bombed.

why not start fresh with a new bird.

Because it's blatant badge engineering of a product already available on the US market, the kind GM is being ripped over by rebadging the Equinox as the Torrent.

Chevrolet and Pontiac overlap and cannabalize the same market enough, both should be producing more distinct muscle cars instead of two flavors of the same damn thing if anyone is to make a good case for keeping Pontiac around.

Had it been released along with the new Monaro in 2001 it would have fared much better, chiefly because it wouldn't have coincided with the release of a new and retro Mustang setting the nation's nostalgia ablaze.

If it wasn't for the US truck tax we probably would have gotten the Holden Ute SS instead for Chevrolet, which is a better car (lighter, cheaper, more versatile) and has a unique shape we'd love in the US and haven't seen since the El Camino was dropped in the 80s.

GM could have done a better job making the Monaro into a GTO, including a distinct GTO hood (pictured) with more throwback, having Holden's 18s standard instead of the 17s, and all of the Monaro's features like the sunroof.

http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/04_00024_2.jpg

With some touches, the new GTOs look awesome. It was a good blank canvas that GM could have done much more with.

Uh, this isn't news.

This was stated repeatedly in 2003 before the car even hit our shores that it was only going to be a three year run. There's no way it would pass US crash regulations for 2007, this is the same thing that ended production of the Ford GT.

The Monaro (which is the GTO) also wasn't planned to go this long. Holden is engineering an entirely new chassis for all their large cars so all of them are being discontinued for new models. The strength of the Australian dollar on the US dollar is also making imports more expensive.

If GM really wasn't devoted to the project it could have been dropped easily in 2004 when it totally bombed.



The Ford GT is going bye bye because they're shutting down their Wixom plant, not because of crash regs.

Because it's blatant badge engineering of a product already available on the US market, the kind GM is being ripped over by rebadging the Equinox as the Torrent.

Chevrolet and Pontiac overlap and cannabalize the same market enough, both should be producing more distinct muscle cars instead of two flavors of the same damn thing if anyone is to make a good case for keeping Pontiac around.

I wasn't talking about "rebadging" our 4th gens are similar in appearance to a certain extent but share most of the same internals. This is what I was referring to. BTW there was no chevy version of the gto to "cannabalize" the market, I do agree it should've been released sooner when the Monaro was released BUT in 2001 the firebird was still in production. I like your input though, any thoughts on what would be appropriate cars for each.

'Trishield' even if the GTO was successful and other Aussie cars were considered, could the Aussies even handle much more at their plant? I thought they were limited. Also, when news of doubling or tripling production rumors got out I heard the Aussies were talking about a strike for increased pay and benefits. Seems to me GM would have openned up something they would later regret.

What GM has to do is produce the car here or at least Canada or Mexico. Though I would rather see the USA workers get the work.

The Ford GT is going bye bye because they're shutting down their Wixom plant, not because of crash regs.

Like the GTO it was also planned for a limited run. I read crash regs. were figured into that plan.

'Trishield' even if the GTO was successful and other Aussie cars were considered, could the Aussies even handle much more at their plant?

They have excess capacity of over 18,000. That's a good deal of niche cars they could have produced then and could be producing now.

It's too bad the GTO didn't meet the goal and gobble it all up. If they had planned for that they were left with room to build thousands of left-hand drive, Chevrolet bowtied Utes as El Caminos in addition to the GTO.

I'm with you on the Ute. I've thought about taking a trip there in part to bring one (or a Maloo) back. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I've always wanted to visit Australia.

Lutz should frequent this board if he wants to know which cars are going to be a hit or a flop. Especially for the performance cars.
hardly anyone here (not to mention other magizines) all said it was ugly and were uniterested when they saw the finally stlying, funny how GM though if they added hood scoops that people would buy it.
all they need for success is to listen to ls1tech.

if their smart they can have success with a new camaro, and also with a firebird which people want.

i wont miss the goat, looks like a pontiac grand am to me.
goat has always = weaksauce

blandish styling
NO marketing (I think ive seen ONE commerical in 2 years)
BUT I love my GTO. Best car ive ever owned. Its rock solid, reliable, comfortable and well put together, and its got an LS1 motor to boot.
But yeah, this is not news at all...

as far as I am concerned, I got a Holden Monaro with a Pontiac sticker on it. Excellent quality and peformance for a reasonable price...but if Pontiac never bothered to tell anybody...are they really surprised they didn't sell well?

They have excess capacity of over 18,000. That's a good deal of niche cars they could have produced then and could be producing now.

It's too bad the GTO didn't meet the goal and gobble it all up. If they had planned for that they were left with room to build thousands of left-hand drive, Chevrolet bowtied Utes as El Caminos in addition to the GTO.


Thanks for clearing that up.

:)

LOL. You not gonna go chasing WRXs are you?
No, but the roads in Utah just plain suck! :)

Hopefully they saw the hype that the Camaro concept was getting and needed an out to take another look at a new TA.

I'm with you on the Ute. I've thought about taking a trip there in part to bring one (or a Maloo) back. Of course, it doesn't hurt that I've always wanted to visit Australia.

In hindsight, if it had been this car instead of the Monaro I think GM could have moved 18,000 of them annually easy with just a bowtie on the grille and a different name.

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/ute/s/img_vzIIsute.jpg

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/ute/ss/img_vzII_ssute02.jpg

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/SSZute/img_ssz_interior.jpg

It's lighter, faster, handles better, has the head-turning looks, comes in two or four doors, rear or AWD and can do 90% of what a truck can do and everything a muscle car can do. It's also cheaper than the Monaro. No brainer.

I took one for a spin in Sydney and it was absolutely lovely. I recommend Australia as it's a good vacation, and the beer is exceptional.

Why of why GM would you not give us this AND the GTO. It wouldve been fantastic.

Sharp looking truck, This is what GM needs to do, Bring back something different & exciting..I think these would sell well if it had 400 ponies :)

the gto is being redesigned for a different platform. thats wht was posted on this board somewhere.

Many Aussie muscle enthusiasts rebadge modern Holdens as Chevrolets, I saw a few when I was down there.

http://www.kisser.net.au/davidc/images/ute/g3wc/ute_front.jpg

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/ute/ss/img_vyIIssute_01.jpg

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/ute/ss/img_vyIIssute_02.jpg

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/ute/ss/img_vyIIssute_04.jpg

The bowtie and chrome bar look right at home on the Ute SS. A real 21st century El Camino we'll probably never get. :(

Sharp looking truck, This is what GM needs to do, Bring back something different & exciting..I think these would sell well if it had 400 ponies :)

Here are the specs.

Holden Ute SS (two-door)
Final drive ratio six-speed 3.46 / automatic 3.08
Front and Rear Independent Suspension
Weight - six-speed 3,567 pounds / automatic 3,580 pounds
Maximum Bed Payload - 1,455 pounds
Maximum Towing - 3,527 pounds (both transmissions)
Base price in US dollars - $28,874.22

Imagine it with an LS2.

The Monaro's base price in US dollars is $47,502.62 and we got it for $33,190. Imagine that kind of decrease on the price of the Ute.

It really blows we didn't get it here.

I like the Ute's overall characteristics, I think it would be a hell of a successor to the el camino line if it was named that. In a practical sense though while initially pretty neat, i think it's novelty would quickly wear off and suffer in our market. It seems it would have a really narrow market, especially when many consumers want lots of interior space.

I like the Ute's overall characteristics, I think it would be a hell of a successor to the el camino line if it was named that. In a practical sense though while initially pretty neat, i think it's novelty would quickly wear off and suffer in our market. It seems it would have a really narrow market, especially when many consumers want lots of interior space.

18,000 a year wouldn't have been much, and it's cheap. Dodge sells that many muscle wagon Magnums when everyone said that would flop.

I can't be the only one who would love to have a muscle car that can tow and haul while using less fuel than a fullsize truck or suffering the poor driving dynamics of a truck.

Here in AZ (and the south in general) they would sell every one of them they could build.

plus it comes in 4-door, no? that would kick ass, it couldve been the next syclone as well w/ the awd.

In hindsight, if it had been this car instead of the Monaro I think GM could have moved 18,000 of them annually easy with just a bowtie on the grille and a different name.

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/ute/s/img_vzIIsute.jpg

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/ute/ss/img_vzII_ssute02.jpg

http://www.holden.com.au//images/uploads/gallery_images/SSZute/img_ssz_interior.jpg

It's lighter, faster, handles better, has the head-turning looks, comes in two or four doors, rear or AWD and can do 90% of what a truck can do and everything a muscle car can do. It's also cheaper than the Monaro. No brainer.

I took one for a spin in Sydney and it was absolutely lovely. I recommend Australia as it's a good vacation, and the beer is exceptional.

That's what GM should have used and called it the SSR instead of the overweight / underpowerd truck that they have now. It could have competed against the Lightning and the RAM SRT-10 and had a fighting chance due to it's reduced weight.

Oh well. GM probably had the 2009 camaro in the plans and knew they needed to 'throw us a bone' and figured the GTO would hold us over for a few years while they get the camaro (and dare I say Firebird) back to the market.

They didn't spend a lot of money re-engineering it, and it was a temporary fix.

Many Aussie muscle enthusiasts rebadge modern Holdens as Chevrolets, I saw a few when I was down there.

http://www.kisser.net.au/davidc/images/ute/g3wc/ute_front.jpg

The bowtie and chrome bar look right at home on the Ute SS. A real 21st century El Camino we'll probably never get. :(

Umm, I'm pretty sure that the shot of the green Ute is a PS job. I seem to recall someone adding the Chevy grille when news of the Monaro coming stateside first got out.

And as for them rebadging Holdens as Chevys... well most Holdens are already sold in LHD form in the Middle East as Chevrolets. IIRC the Commodore is sold as the Lumina, and the Statesman is sold as the Caprice.

I would so get a Ute (El Camino) if they imported them to the states!

Umm, I'm pretty sure that the shot of the green Ute is a PS job.

It's not, I know the guy that owns it though another site I moderate.

We all know ppl have a different taste but personally i liked GTO's & i always will :)

PS. GM should bring the legend back the "Firebird" the true muscle car :cool:

peace

PS. GM should bring the legend back the "Firebird" the true muscle car
Technically, Firebirds, Camaros, and Mustangs are not muscle cars, they're pony cars.

Muscle cars came about when manufacturers put high output engines into mundane midsize family cars. I.E. 1964 Pontiac Lemans + 389 ci engine = GTO. There would have been no GTO without the Lemans.

Today, the closest we have to a "musclecar" is the 06 Impala SS with the 5.3L. That is, if it weren't FWD :bang:.

Technically, Firebirds, Camaros, and Mustangs are not muscle cars, they're pony cars.

Muscle cars came about when manufacturers put high output engines into mundane midsize family cars. I.E. 1964 Pontiac Lemans + 389 ci engine = GTO. There would have been no GTO without the Lemans.

Today, the closest we have to a "musclecar" is the 06 Impala SS with the 5.3L. That is, if it weren't FWD :bang:.

Actually the closest things we have to musclecars are the Dodge Charger SRT-8, Chrysler 300 SRT-8 and the GTO. The closest thing we have to a musclewagon is the Magnum SRT-8. And honestly it can be argued as to whether or not the F-bodies and Mustangs are musclecars. Some consider pony cars to be small musclecars, some say there were no musclecars after '72, others say '74 etc... It's a topic of debate.

can someone explain the difference to me between a muscle car and a pony car?

can someone explain the difference to me between a muscle car and a pony car?One word...Semantics!

I've always relegated the designation "pony car" to cars which aspired to be muscle cars, but didn't have the power to back it up.

can someone explain the difference to me between a muscle car and a pony car?

Pony cars are cars conceived to compete directly against the Mustang. Hence the Camaro/Firebird and Challenger/'Cuda are pony cars. Pony cars can be muscle cars and vice versa.

They should have done it like this concept from many years back :devil:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d193/danny2tek/1999-Pontiac-GTO-Concept-FA.jpg

I'm not really feeling that concept, funny thing is the new camaro kind of looks like a more practical evolution of that, maybe it's the beer talkin.

They should have done it like this concept from many years back :devil:

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d193/danny2tek/1999-Pontiac-GTO-Concept-FA.jpg

I remember that ugly ass piece of shit. It was a non running concept shown 5 or 6 years ago or so. Supposedly the guy who designed it said "before I joined this project I didn't know anything about GTOs." Suffice to say everyone in the room was silence. Obviously judging by how ugly that piece of shit it, he STILL doesn't know anything about GTOs. What a fucking disgrace that thing is. As I said, it was a non running concept. Knowing GM, they were probably pondering FWD and the same old lame ass 3800 pushrod V6 and 4 speed automatic.

damn that is hidious ive looked at it before but just looking at it .. wow where did this jerk off learn to design cars im sure i can do better :P

I think the Ram Air 6 concept was the best GTO concept ever. It got rave reviews on both sides of the Pacific so we know they did something right. It's a shame they didn't go all out and produce it, but I'm sure it would have been cost prohibitive. Or maybe not. I guess we'll never know.

I am sorry but if you look at that ugly fucking GTO concept above it looks pretty similar to the ugly fucking Camaro Concept, But 10yrs to late....This car should have been built long ago to stay ahead of the game. But NO, Lutz & Co are Old fucking GOATS themselves that don't know what we want..So from now on to me, GOAT=LUTZ And the GOAT Dies after 06, Maybe someone else should be out of production too?