View Full Version : Remove Baffles, WS6 Hood?


02RedWS6RamAir
03-09-2006, 07:01 PM
I did a search and couldn't find anything. Would it be worth the trouble to remove the baffles from the inside of the hood to improve air flow? I'm sure this has come up before, sorry if it's a re-post.
Thanks :)

HPP
03-09-2006, 11:09 PM
I'm sure this is covered somewhere in this site, but it's really easy.

Pop your hood and look at the bottom front section. You'll see a number of small rivets. Drill them out (I think it's an 1/8" bit, but it's been a long time since I did mine, you might need to eyeball it). Once all the rivets are drilled out, just reach in from behind and pop them out. They are glued in as well as riveted so you will have to apply pressure to break the glue. The front was tougher than the rear.

Be advised that the inside of the hood is white. I wanted to take my grill inserts out to have 4 smooth holes, but the white was just too much (on a black car), so I put the grills (not the baffles) back in for now. Once I get around to painting the debaffled insides I'll take them out.

Cumbias
03-09-2006, 11:23 PM
A guy named Brian Green made a kit to replace the baffles with smooth tunnels that connected dirrectly to the air box with no gap in between. You could order the tunnels black or color match your car. But he stoopped making it and only sells the gasket and a feew other pieces last time I checked. Maybe you can find one on ebay.
It was called the BG Ram Air.

KillerKlown
03-09-2006, 11:26 PM
I'm sure this is covered somewhere in this site, but it's really easy.

Pop your hood and look at the bottom front section. You'll see a number of small rivets. Drill them out (I think it's an 1/8" bit, but it's been a long time since I did mine, you might need to eyeball it). Once all the rivets are drilled out, just reach in from behind and pop them out. They are glued in as well as riveted so you will have to apply pressure to break the glue. The front was tougher than the rear.

Be advised that the inside of the hood is white. I wanted to take my grill inserts out to have 4 smooth holes, but the white was just too much (on a black car), so I put the grills (not the baffles) back in for now. Once I get around to painting the debaffled insides I'll take them out.

"Rear" baffles?? I only see 1 set in front of the grill, where are the rear baffles located, I must be blind! Posta pic if ya can please. :hail:

BriancWS6
03-09-2006, 11:28 PM
It's easy as pie to remove them. I did it to both of my cars. Did it really help? Who knows, can't hurt though.

HPP
03-10-2006, 10:54 AM
"Rear" baffles?? I only see 1 set in front of the grill, where are the rear baffles located, I must be blind! Posta pic if ya can please. :hail:

My camera isn't working right now unfortunately, but if you look at the bottom of the front of the hood you'll see the rivets I mentioned and you'll notice there's a lot more than would be there for just the ones you can see behind the grill inserts.

Each intake has a single front baffel, and behind them, is 1 large rear baffle. If you reach around from behind and inside to feel the baffles, the rear is the one you feel.

So in stock form the air is going through the grills, hitting the front baffles, being shunted down, hitting the bottom of the inside of the hood and being shunted back, then hitting the rear baffle, being forced up to the top of the inside of the hood, and then over the baffle and down again to get under the airbox, where it then has to change direction once more to go up and through the airfilter to get down the intake. lol This is why people say it's only for looks and nothing more. Nutty engineers. Wonder how much crack they went through working on that. :smokin2:

Anyway, just drill out all the rivets, reach in from behind and press the (rear) baffle forward till it pops, then fish it out, then take out your grill inserts and from either the front or the back, whichever is easiest depending on your hand and arm size, push on the front baffles individually and then fish them out the back as well. They will be a lot tougher. Just take your time and becareful. :)

WhiteBird00
03-10-2006, 02:18 PM
The stated reason for the baffles is to prevent water from getting into the intake. Has anyone every experienced a problem (wet filter, etc.)?

02RedWS6RamAir
03-10-2006, 02:29 PM
Thanks for all the info guy's! I will probably drill out the rivets when I get some time.

It's easy as pie to remove them. I did it to both of my cars. Did it really help? Who knows, can't hurt though.

That's what I was wondering as well, how much if any gain?

The stated reason for the baffles is to prevent water from getting into the intake. Has anyone every experienced a problem (wet filter, etc.)?[/QUOTE]

Any Takers on that one?

KillerKlown
03-10-2006, 03:22 PM
My camera isn't working right now unfortunately, but if you look at the bottom of the front of the hood you'll see the rivets I mentioned and you'll notice there's a lot more than would be there for just the ones you can see behind the grill inserts.

Each intake has a single front baffel, and behind them, is 1 large rear baffle. If you reach around from behind and inside to feel the baffles, the rear is the one you feel.

So in stock form the air is going through the grills, hitting the front baffles, being shunted down, hitting the bottom of the inside of the hood and being shunted back, then hitting the rear baffle, being forced up to the top of the inside of the hood, and then over the baffle and down again to get under the airbox, where it then has to change direction once more to go up and through the airfilter to get down the intake. lol This is why people say it's only for looks and nothing more. Nutty engineers. Wonder how much crack they went through working on that. :smokin2:

Anyway, just drill out all the rivets, reach in from behind and press the (rear) baffle forward till it pops, then fish it out, then take out your grill inserts and from either the front or the back, whichever is easiest depending on your hand and arm size, push on the front baffles individually and then fish them out the back as well. They will be a lot tougher. Just take your time and becareful. :)

Thanks! That cleared it up much better. Yeah, what where they thinking?! :eyes:

HPP
03-10-2006, 04:32 PM
The stated reason for the baffles is to prevent water from getting into the intake. Has anyone every experienced a problem (wet filter, etc.)?

Any Takers on that one?

I don't drive my car in the rain. :)

I've heard from other people though that they've never had a water problem. Other mods, like the Fast Toys Ram Air (which makes a channel from under the chin) would be worse than debaffling the WS6 hood, but no problems with that AFAIK.

Also, the LT1s didn't have all that bloody baffling and were essentially a true straight shot from the openings to the manifold.

Akuma
03-10-2006, 06:14 PM
I have the Brian Greene system. I love it!!! not only does it debaffle, but he has inserts that smooth out the whole nostril area so there isn't any turbulence. His kit also comes with a hard foam spacer so it become true ram air (between the nostrils and the air lid). There is a rain plate for the kit but I never wanna get wet so I just run into the car and get in. (you have to pop the hood to put the rain plate in) I have driven the car in torential downpours and have not had a single problem.

02RedWS6RamAir
03-10-2006, 06:44 PM
...think my baffles are on borrowed time. :devil:

Raven97
03-11-2006, 10:46 AM
Also, the LT1s didn't have all that bloody baffling and were essentially a true straight shot from the openings to the manifold.

not true the LT-1 ramair hood DOES have baffles and therefore is NOT a "straight through" design

02RedWS6RamAir
03-11-2006, 04:25 PM
Baffles are gone! Took about 45 minutes. I don't really expect to much of a performance gain, however it looks llike it will breathe allot better.

When I have another day off I will take it apart again and spray the whole inside flat black. If you look you can see inside, dosen't look that pretty. :)

JCS30TH
03-12-2006, 10:41 PM
I have the Brian Greene system. I love it!!! not only does it debaffle, but he has inserts that smooth out the whole nostril area so there isn't any turbulence. His kit also comes with a hard foam spacer so it become true ram air (between the nostrils and the air lid). There is a rain plate for the kit but I never wanna get wet so I just run into the car and get in. (you have to pop the hood to put the rain plate in) I have driven the car in torential downpours and have not had a single problem.

I agree. I did not know he stopped makeing them though?

Cumbias
03-14-2006, 12:59 AM
It suprised me too. I was planning on getting one (this was before I had my car) to put on my planned WS6 purchase. I later found out why, too expensive to manufacture. He was barely making any money and the compan that helped him was losing money. I read the whole story on ls1.com. Kinda disapointing for a few WS6 owners (and WS6 seekers like myself)

black01_WS6
03-15-2006, 10:55 AM
as far as getting water in the engine the water would have to go up through the filter and then enter the engine. while some people may experience wet filters in a monsoon type rain, it seems almost impossible for the water to get in the engine. I have had this done for 2 years and never had a wet filter. I live in florida and we see some heavy rain.

DrEvyl
03-15-2006, 11:11 AM
The stated reason for the baffles is to prevent water from getting into the intake. Has anyone every experienced a problem (wet filter, etc.)?

I live in Seattle and my WS6's hood is debaffled... I've driven it in the rain numerous times and not had a problem.

Cumbias
03-19-2006, 03:58 AM
would just deblaffeling the hood make a diffence in the rain factor in Southern California.
now, most of the time we don't get rain, but the few times we do it can get real wet (if you know what I mean), a street that i have to cross on my way to school always become a river. That ruled out the FTRA and SSRA. The top of the hood only get in water for about 3 secs at the most.

blazinws6kush
03-22-2006, 12:13 AM
When I made a 1200 mile round trip to Norcal in my car, i got water in my engine when it was pouring rain. Trust me, you WILL get water in your engine if you drive fast in the rain and if your WS6 hood is debaffled. I had to drive 55 mph on the freeway when it was raining so i wouldn't get rain in my engine. I pulled over halfway through the trip, bought duct tape and taped the inside of my hood. Anytime it rains i just use duct tape to seal my hood. Im just glad nothing happened like a blown head gasket 600 miles away from home!

Cumbias
03-22-2006, 02:04 AM
What if you leave the front honeycomb inserts. Would that be enough?

HPP
03-22-2006, 09:27 AM
What if you leave the front honeycomb inserts. Would that be enough?

You'll need to do that unless you spray paint the interior anyway (or unless you have a white car). It looks hideous otherwise.

BBATCAR
03-24-2006, 12:10 PM
I've had mine debaffles 3 years, no problems, even in heavy rain. Barely any drops the air box, for insurance I got some rain shields.. I do believe you get high speed performance and I get 25 miles more per tankful ever since I did this mod..

HPP
03-24-2006, 12:49 PM
Wouldn't it reduce mileage? More air means more power through more fuel.

BBATCAR
03-24-2006, 01:02 PM
Wouldn't it reduce mileage? More air means more power through more fuel.
I thinks it has to do with air/fuel mixture... I do know consistently I get 25-30 miles more per tankful, then before the mod... :)

HPP
03-24-2006, 01:22 PM
True enough, mix is important. But that's what the PCM is supposed to handle.

But if you're at WOT and off closed loop a lot of the time, I guess it could be getting a little richer than ideal. But even then, in theory, the PCM should still be able to make ideal power mix for any amount of air it gets, whether it be a little, or a lot.

Not saying it's not happening for you, just pondering the technicals. lol

BTW, where did you get that sealing kit?

BBATCAR
03-24-2006, 01:50 PM
PM'ed you the info

PDQ-TA
03-24-2006, 02:39 PM
Hey,Hey there are no secrets here. Share with the rest of us the info on the kit to seal the hood. Thanks :lurk:

WADDISME
03-24-2006, 03:32 PM
Info on the hood seal kit please!!! I just order the intake deal from Shane (tranzam00), so debaffling seems like a good idea for me.

PDQ-TA
03-27-2006, 03:42 PM
Still looking for some info on this kit - Anyone?

02RedWS6RamAir
03-29-2006, 02:59 PM
Hey,Hey there are no secrets here. Share with the rest of us the info on the kit to seal the hood. Thanks

Yeah, what he said. :)

TTT for seal kit info.

BBATCAR
03-30-2006, 11:06 AM
fbody99@shaw.ca

http://community.webshots.com/album/44929351NTfDIv

B-MAN
03-30-2006, 11:43 AM
My friend had a big problem with water being sucked in through his intake. Only during very heavy rain fall though.

BBATCAR
03-30-2006, 11:54 AM
My friend had a big problem with water being sucked in through his intake. Only during very heavy rain fall though.


If you're worried about that, then that is when the "Rain Shields" come into play, Zero water!! air still plenty from under the car

WhiteBird00
03-30-2006, 12:08 PM
Maybe I'm wrong here and someone who knows the physics of fluid dynamics would know better, but isn't removing the baffles rather pointless? If a certain volume of air is entering the nostrils doesn't the same volume have to come out the other end regardless of how many bends there are in the path? Or am I missing the point?

BBATCAR
03-30-2006, 12:21 PM
Maybe I'm wrong here and someone who knows the physics of fluid dynamics would know better, but isn't removing the baffles rather pointless? If a certain volume of air is entering the nostrils doesn't the same volume have to come out the other end regardless of how many bends there are in the path? Or am I missing the point?

This is what I do know... I feel a stronger pull at high speeds and I get 25-40 miles per tankfull, better gas mileage ..

WhiteBird00
03-30-2006, 12:48 PM
Is that extra mileage between a regular ram air hood and one that's debaffled? Or between a stock hood and a ram air one? I just ordered one of those composite plastic WS6-style hoods and it would be great if I could tell "she who must be obeyed" that I'm going to get better mileage with it.

HPP
03-30-2006, 01:06 PM
Maybe I'm wrong here and someone who knows the physics of fluid dynamics would know better, but isn't removing the baffles rather pointless? If a certain volume of air is entering the nostrils doesn't the same volume have to come out the other end regardless of how many bends there are in the path? Or am I missing the point?

Restrictions always reduce flow. This is why we seek mandral bends in exhaust tubing, and as few of them, and as slight, as possible. It's why CAI's for just about every car out there smooth the inside of the tube, reduce bends, and if possible, shorten the intake distance.

Such restrictions cause turblence. Turbulence interrupts flow.

I'm trying to think of the best way to explain it. Go to a pool, or even fill up your bathtub, and stick your hand in and push or drag it along and notice what happens. While water overflows around the edges and fills in the area behind your hand, it also gets pushed forward. The effects of which (a wave) can be seen pretty far ahead of your hand. And the faster you move it, the farther out that wave front gets.

The water is getting pushed ahead by your hand, and it can't compress, but because of the water off to the side, it can't get out of the way fast enough either, so it just pushes the water in front of it, and so on, until you get far enough out that the pressure is low enough that it can get out of the way.

Air is much the same. Air can be more easily compressed, but not by a car moving through it at normal car speeds.

That baffle is basically your hand. Some air can get over and behind it, but mostly it's just swirling around and building up in front, getting pushed along, and pushing the air that it in turn contacts as you move.

Removing the baffles removes that restriction and opens up a striaght shot. Basically allowing more CFM of flow.

That said, the hood internals aren't ideally shaped and will create flow and drag issues of another kind if all you do is remove the baffles and nothing else. But it's still less restriction in the system over all.

Now the real question is about the demand on the other side. You're not force feeding the engine. The car's not going fast enough. But, you may be helping the engine get the air it needs more easily. Kinda like applying a given suction to a straw, and then the same suction to a larger straw, you're making it easier for the engine to get what it wants in the short time it has to pull air in.

However - if it's getting all it needs anyway, then debaffling would have *zero* effect of any kind what-so-ever. Which may be the case.

Someone in the Advanced Tech forum noted that he saw a tested and measured increase of 3" in the manifold, but he was using a camaro with a custom front breather where the endire catfish mouth was turned into an intake ram, and sealed to the lid. That's a much larger opening with a much better connection (no turbulence on the back end since it was sealed to the lid). It's encountering so much more air at any given speed than we will with our much smaller openings.

Many people were questioning his gain. It almost certainly came from simply de-restricting the intake tract. We won't see even that much gain, which is still rather little anyway, because our openings are so much smaller.

WhiteBird00
03-30-2006, 01:27 PM
The straw analogy is like the one used on the ramairhood.com site where I ordered the hood. They claim that adding their ram air hood is like drinking directly from the glass as compared to through a straw (i.e. little or no restriction).

So, is there any way of testing (besides seat-of-the-pants) whether removing the baffles actually improves performance? A dyno won't help because you're sitting still so the ram air has no effect. If the air isn't being compressed significantly at normal highway speeds then it would seem that smoothing the flow wouldn't increase the amount of air that the engine takes in. Or would smoothing the flow increase the compression of the incoming air?

HPP
03-30-2006, 01:40 PM
If you wanted to test, wire up a pressure sensor directly in the manifold, block the hood, drive around and get readings for various conditions. Then unblock the hood and re-test.

If the air isn't being compressed significantly at normal highway speeds then it would seem that smoothing the flow wouldn't increase the amount of air that the engine takes in. Or would smoothing the flow increase the compression of the incoming air?

I think you mis-understood me.

No, you won't increase the compression of the air by smoothing it's path. That's not really the issue though. My point about compressiblity was that it's (relative) lack of compressibility means that the baffle in the hood would act as your hand in the tub/pool. The air hitting it would get caught and pushed, and in turn push the air it hits, and so on, *rather than* flowing through to the back of the system (the mainfold).

As for any benefit - it'll be small at best. All you're doing is trying to decrease lack of flow efficiency. But the way it's being done doesn't offer much intake opening area. It's also quite possible that enough are is getting through the filter from under the nose that the holes in the hood have even less (as in virtually no) effect.

This is why the flat hoods make the same power as the WS6 hoods. The difference is marketing.

y2k_ta
03-30-2006, 07:30 PM
This is why the flat hoods make the same power as the WS6 hoods. The difference is marketing.

I like hearing that :)

WS6HUMMER
04-13-2006, 10:41 AM
A guy named Brian Green made a kit to replace the baffles with smooth tunnels that connected dirrectly to the air box with no gap in between. You could order the tunnels black or color match your car. But he stoopped making it and only sells the gasket and a feew other pieces last time I checked. Maybe you can find one on ebay.
It was called the BG Ram Air.

I have this "BG Ram Air" it was on my car when I got it. I actually just removed all of it from the old hood and I need a new gasket, do you have a link to his current site? I'm transferring this very same funnel system to a new factory hood (had a fender bender and broke part of the old hood)

Cumbias
04-14-2006, 03:51 AM
You can still puchase certain parts at ls1 speed (http://www.ls1speed.com/catagory.cfm?catagory=induction)
and at afterthought auto (http://www.afterthoughtsauto.com/bg-ram-air.html)

Captainofiron
04-14-2006, 11:30 AM
not true the LT-1 ramair hood DOES have baffles and therefore is NOT a "straight through" design

That is true, even the stock ones do. The baffles for a S- curve and then come out on top and go into the air box. I drilled a few holes to make some straight through flow, but it rains alot down here and the TA is my daily driver, so I dont want to suck a puddle

Captainofiron
04-14-2006, 11:35 AM
Maybe I'm wrong here and someone who knows the physics of fluid dynamics would know better, but isn't removing the baffles rather pointless? If a certain volume of air is entering the nostrils doesn't the same volume have to come out the other end regardless of how many bends there are in the path? Or am I missing the point?

Yes its true, but the baffles themselves have at least some cross sectional area this therefore takes away from the crosssectional area of the intake ports or nostrils, plus without the baffles it lowers the intake air velocity meaning cooler air(probably hardly a difference) and it would be a higher density. Man my head hurts, remembering all that from Thermodynamics and Fluid mechanics brought back some bad memories.

WS6HUMMER
04-14-2006, 12:12 PM
You can still puchase certain parts at ls1 speed (http://www.ls1speed.com/catagory.cfm?catagory=induction)
and at afterthought auto (http://www.afterthoughtsauto.com/bg-ram-air.html)

Thanks! :cheers:

Coy
04-14-2006, 01:14 PM
This was just covered yesterday in the external forum...

y2k_ta
04-14-2006, 06:54 PM
This was just covered yesterday in the external forum...

Maybe so, but this thread has been going on since March 9th.