View Full Version : how much nitrous can go in a 2 stage?


rosm187
03-19-2006, 06:25 PM
just trying to figure out if my goals in the end are still realistic.

have a gto which will probably never weight less then 3800LB's. My goal is to have a 2 stage dry to wet combo. im shooting for 8xx/8xx hp/tq and 9's. i realize i will need all the rear, fuel, forged engine, blah blah, question is, would it be safe to run 150/250 shots of nitrous or should i plan for a direct port as a second stage? just looking for opinions.

thanks

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 06:37 PM
I think it can be done. I would use the old LS1 recipe of walbro 255 lph intank with hotwire kit and voltage blaster along with 42 pph injectors to make right around 700 rwhp. Then add a regular 150 shot wet with a stand alone fuel tank. If you dont want a stand alone fuel tank youll have to put a real fuel system in the car for tha much power.

We did do a 408 combo that made 490 rwhp on the nitrous tune and sprayed it with a 400 shot. It made 868 rwhp. The second stage was DP and it was also progressive. It was with cometic headgaskets ARP head studs and iron block. The rest of the build was pretty standard stuff.

If you arent going to bigger cubes I dont know if you will get your goal of 800+ rwtq. thats gonna be your killer unless you really tune to a nats ass and use plenty of octane. If you plan out the nitrous so its more progressive with rpm you should be able to acheive the 800 rwhp with a more mild 700 rwtq. You will have to have a cam and intake that will allow you to spin with some rpms.

But as for the question of can you get 800 rwhp with a dry and non DP wet kit. I believe so.

rosm187
03-19-2006, 07:28 PM
thx, i was only considering using the wet/dry at the track and just having the dry if i had some serious competition on the street. i want to go to a 370/383 ( eventually) but i get what your saying about the torque and thats reasonable, but a stand alone, would definently be a good idea i might look into later. thanks for the info

227Hawk
03-19-2006, 07:37 PM
My .02 is run A Direct Port as the wet for a 250H.P. Wet through the manifold will be problems in that size shot. Again i'm about to put on my 'FLAME' suit. :jest:
Hawk :devil:

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 07:46 PM
if the 383 makes 475 rwhp on motor....the dry makes another 200 for 675...then the wet only has to spray a 125 down the intake for 800 rwhp total. Thats not bad and doesnt really need a direct port.

227Hawk
03-19-2006, 08:19 PM
I'm confused the original question was a 150/ 250 wet ??
I still stand by my.02 on a 250 wet shot.
Hawk :devil:

rosm187
03-19-2006, 08:22 PM
EDIT : i was under the impression that it was best to use a dry hit first...off the line and then a wet stage maybe in second gear. also that the wet shot would be a larger one? can you elaborate on this? a 200 dry/125 wet is diferent then what i had thaught

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 08:23 PM
I agree...a 250 is too much. Im just saying if he plans on using a dry/wet combo it can probably be done without DP. Use the FJO dual stage progressive and your good to go as far as controlling how it all comes in.

227Hawk
03-19-2006, 09:06 PM
EDIT : i was under the impression that it was best to use a dry hit first...off the line and then a wet stage maybe in second gear. also that the wet shot would be a larger one? can you elaborate on this? a 200 dry/125 wet is diferent then what i had thaught
You can hit a 200 dry but with injectors and a pump you will lean spike!
That's alot of N20 for the mAF to pick-up.
Hawk :devil:

rosm187
03-19-2006, 09:12 PM
so i guess i should plan out for a dp, and leave the dry ( already have it) for street/ 2nd stage track use.
last question- with a dp, if i were to use a 200+ shot, is a fjo controller a must? i would imagine soo, i have a trick WS with multi gear lockout, or would that be no good?

227Hawk
03-19-2006, 09:18 PM
The Dry shot is better used as a first stage in my.02. I use mine on the street
as a compromise for power. And as for setting up a D.P. the FJO is one hell of
a controller!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hail:
Hawk :devil:

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 09:18 PM
you can hit a 200 dry not problem with 42 lb injectors and a walbro intank with hotwire kit. No lean spike. I have done 3 of these setups and none ever had a lean spike.

I used to run a 300 all dry. never once had a lean spike.

227Hawk
03-19-2006, 09:20 PM
you can hit a 200 dry not problem with 42 lb injectors and a walbro intank with hotwire kit. No lean spike. I have done 3 of these setups and none ever had a lean spike.

I used to run a 300 all dry. never once had a lean spike.
I'm not that 'Ballsy' I leave my dry set-ups on my car below 175 H.P.
And i'm running 42#s too. I'm just stating my.02. I do like to play it safe.
At least as safe as i can on spray.
Hawk :chug:

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 09:23 PM
I think your trick switch would work. Its certainly not as fine of a control device as the FJO but its better than an all at once on/off setup. If you hit it with a 150 dry and 150 wet you may get away with it. But you have to monitor the TQ levels and decide at what rpm you are going to hit each. I would hit the 150 dry first at 3300 or so and then the 150 wet at say 4900 and spin to 6900 or so. More if possible but I have no clue what your setup will be on motor.

If you used the FJO you could just ramp each almost seamlessly together with rpm.

rosm187
03-19-2006, 09:30 PM
reading off nitrous outlet site, the FJO is everything the trick is, but can progressively control it? a little confused, not sure if it has lock out and dual stage control, thinking about swapping the trick for it, possibly.

thanks

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 09:37 PM
they both control two stages. Its just that the FJO can control each stage progressively...either in a time based more or rpm based mode. Both have first gear lockout. the trick switch is a nice little unit for sure. But If I were reaching for the HP levels you will be reaching for...rpm based progressive is about the only way I would attempt that. You will need precise control of your tq levels in the midrange rpms.

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 09:44 PM
let me put it too you this way. if you want 800 rwhp and you make 475 rwhp on motr. Thats a 325 shot. If you just had an all in one on/off nitrous setup and activated it at 3300 rpm...your tq would probably be 900+ rwtq. If you use your trick switch and seperate tthat 325 shot over 2 stages based on rpm at say 150 shot at 3300 and another 150 at 5000...the Tq will be substantially lower...estimate around 800 rwtq. If you use rpm progressive like the FJO you can further control the rate that the 325 shot comes on and probably get that Tq as low as 700 rwhp. All three scenarios will make that 800 rwhp at its peak. Its just dividing up the hit so the tq peak is lowered.
Tq is a direct measure of cylinder pressure and high cylinder pressure is what sets of bad things. So control is the name of the game in reaching for high hp.

rosm187
03-19-2006, 09:44 PM
sweet. thanks, im def. ganna do that when time comes. appriciate the knowledge from both of you. nice rides

rosm187
03-19-2006, 09:51 PM
got it, the progressive will make it alot easier on the motor, and pretty much everything else...trans...rear...ect. you have enlightened me thanks :cheers: :cheers:

383LQ4SS
03-19-2006, 10:19 PM
got it, the progressive will make it alot easier on the motor, and pretty much everything else...trans...rear...ect. you have enlightened me thanks :cheers: :cheers:


Exactly! :drive:

Robert56
03-19-2006, 11:43 PM
Now if there was just a 3-stge progressive. with a 1st gear lock out on the 2nd and 3rd stages. Oh well, i got it figured out. At least I thought I did. A little to much torque today off the line, and broke the axle, trans output or the driveline. guess I better manage the 1st stg torque a little better. :jest:
Robert

rosm187
03-20-2006, 03:42 PM
what size shots were you running?

227Hawk
03-20-2006, 09:29 PM
Now if there was just a 3-stge progressive. with a 1st gear lock out on the 2nd and 3rd stages. Oh well, i got it figured out. At least I thought I did. A little to much torque today off the line, and broke the axle, trans output or the driveline. guess I better manage the 1st stg torque a little better. :jest:
Robert

So this was your carnage? :( Did you go wet on the 3rd stage and just go on/off? I'm wondering because my 3rd is progressive on @ 4200 locked from
1st and building into second?
Hawk :chug:

Robert56
03-20-2006, 10:12 PM
Actually, I only got to use 1st stage that was jetted for about 150. I did a higher rpm clutch dump from hell, moved about a foot or two and broke, however, that put me rolling to about half track. Also, they had just sprayed VHT for the slick guys, and man it was sticky, I was the 2nd car up. Gotta get it fixed and dialed in though, our Car Club Challenge bracket racing starts this Sunday. :cry: :)
Robert