Adnectere

So what would be the mods necessary to turn a t56 into a sequential manual. Ignore the clutch assembly for right now as well as electronics. I only mean the actual act of gearshifting. Would it be to revise the shifter selector assembly/shift rail connection and then put in the appropriate force (motor/hydraulic)?

calhoon

iTrader: (6)

I must assume by sequential you mean an automated control. There controls exist today and are generally called sequential because that is how the logic that operates them is limited. The trans, however can be skip shifted easily.
Before you go and strain your car crafting thoughts, look up an Aston Martin Vanquish.It has a fully automated T56 in production. This includes the operation of the clutch as well.

Adnectere

Hit the nail on the head. I'm not sure what to call it. An automated or a row-your-own would be the ideal. I love stick because you can keep everything in the sweet spot, on the cam, using the powerband, etc. But sometimes I just want an auto. I'd love to have a stick, but simply pushing the gear stick isn't what makes a stick in my mind, it's being able to use the powerband as you see fit.
The clutch and electronics can be worked out. I didn't want to get involved with them in this discussion. Basically something would act on the fork or pressurize the slave. In my mind, you have the clutch actuator of some type and then the shifting actuator of some type and electronics to control them. I can build the electronics myself, but that's for later. I want the idea now. The A-M T56 is what makes me know it can be done, I just need some expert help from ls1tech.com and maumee,oh to help refine the idea!

blown2kss

It seems that ford has this technology already, and have used this in a race mustang. The mustang is privately owned by a co. called techno tiger. from what I researched it appears that tremec is working on this same thing for the t-56.

Is this possible to replicate, or is it just too costly right now.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

I would just love to go with a true sequential gear box, but it would cost way too much to put in an LS1 and I doubt it would be too street friendly.

calhoon

iTrader: (6)

The Aston Martin set up is as street friendly as any transmission gets. The Race car you refer to is Carol Holfelders(sp?) Mustang.It not only has automated manual transmission controls( sterin wheel-mounted paddles) but a steering wheel controlled throttle and brake system. It uses a modified Aston Martin automation set up behind a mod motor ford.The trans is a specially-built Tremec T56. It has been operated by Tiger racing in the Speed World Challenge series for several seasons.

ls1mongrel

iTrader: (32)

I think the cost would be too high for a smg tranny to hold the kinda power ls1s put out !

calhoon

iTrader: (6)

What kind of power are you talking about? The Aston Martin is rated at425, the new Viper is rated at 505 (more like 550) . Carol's car is over 800.

blown2kss

this would be an awsome setup, does anyone have any more info.

Adnectere

Everyone, great ideas. It's not that I'm interested in buying something, and we all know it's doable and been done in multiple areas, I'd be more interested in doing it myself. I can design out the electronics, and the clutch seems easy enough, it's simply the guts of the tranny and shifting them. I thought today maybe to follow the skip-shift idea and have a solenoid act on levers, but I'm still almost thinking that either the shift selector assembly or a force acting on the input would be better. Modifying the SSA still seems like the best idea to me. Of course, if that gets too complicated, a new SSA/shift rail might be needed. Calhoon, this is where you being the t56 bada** put in your two cents and let me know about the SSA or getting a new one made or the levers via skip-shift style. Sky's the limit for us.

calhoon

iTrader: (6)

I think you need to simplify to the lowest system deeds. An actuator( piston) thet loads fore/ aft AND can rotate side to side.The T56 is a sigle rail linkage unit so one attachment point / one actuator is good. From there you need sensors to let the controller know where you are and when you get to where you want to be. The system can be filly electric= simple but not fast enough
Hydraulic with electric( solenoid) controls. Air may be an option but again( I think) too slow.

calhoon

iTrader: (6)

Here's a hydraulic one.( pic attached?)

Adnectere

Didn't get the pic Calhoon. Most are electrohydraulically actuated. Just hydraulic force activated via electronics. I'm cool with that. Assuming that you've got the necessary force, the question is where to distribute it? You know the most about the t56 it sounds like. Does one put in multiple levers and actuate them like the 1-4 skip. Or does one create a new Shift selector assembly/shift rail lug unit?

Adnectere

Oh, on ls1gto someone said "Somebody on one of the boards explained the mechanics of it (having had one of the transmissions apart before) and it is simply a solenoid with a push bar that moves you from the first/second 'line' to the 'third/fourth' line. "...does this mean the lugs on the shift rail and the ssa?

Adnectere

I may be a very smart moron. Why bother with redesigning internals if an assembly can be mounted via the shifter's location to move a small rod w/the spherical end that (I think) the shifter has on the end. Doesn't this mesh with a bushing attached to the end of the shift rail?

blown2kss

any more news on this yet.

svsgt1

Not to start an old thread but I actaully designed a complete system for another gearbox but in the end I never went with it for several reasons. The concept behind it is very simple, but the execution is the difficult part. Yeah basically you attach some actuators to where the shift rod usually sits and have it act in a manner tha the shift rod woudl normally act. I designed my system to be able to be hand actuated when you didn't want to use the paddles/buttons (also as a failt safe is the elctronics or actuators fail) and I designed it using electronically controled valves with pneumatic actuators. You can get the force and speed needed out of these but hydraulics is really the best way to go as the pneumatic system is not as strong or consistent. You can mount all different types of sensors to the actuators to ensure that the gear engagements is at the right spot, but the hard part is the shift speed. It is easy to design in how to make the system shift faster or slower depending on how you are driving by reading in the RPM and the changing the flow accordingly. The real problem is how fast or slow do you really want the system to operate. The human feel is what is lost and has to be loosely simulated when it comes to speed and feel. For example you don't want to jam the stick into gear at a slow speed as you will break synchros eventually. The system ha sto be designed so that the speed is correct for the current conditions. Now this is not hard to build and to adjust over some testing but my best guess is that you will break something befor eyou get it right. But it woudl be a fun project.

What I would like to really design is a sequential shift mechanism with a drum attache dto the shift forks to have a true sequential gearbox, with helical cut gears, and synchros. If someone can make this conversion for cheap it would be by far the cheapest sequential gearbox on the market, and cool as hell.

Adam

blown2kss

So the transmission would have to shift at different speeds depending on the driving conditions. Is it possible to have different modes, and would it be possible for it to shift gears in under a second.