Hot Rod Power Tour/ Pump Gas Drags/ Drag Week - Pump Gas Drags - This makes no sense...

The rules state that entrants must use DOT tires in the back. That makes sense, as these are supposed to be "street cars."

But you can run any tire up front (i.e. skinnies). That makes no sense at all! Not only is that not legal to do on the street, but all of the manufacturers of skinnies say "don't do it, track only, it's dangerous, they're not meant for that, your warranty is void, etc, etc."

The whole point behind the operation (i.e. a competition for legit street cars) is ruined by this. I think next year they should require DOT tires on all fours and make this competition legit again.

Do you know how many guys run around the streets on front runners? I think that's getting alittle picky. Then they would have to make another rule to run DOT wheels too. There are alot of us running DOT front runners but most 15x3.5" wheels are not DOT legal. How many cars there do you think could actually pass a full inspection anyway?

Do you know how many guys run around the streets on front runners? I think that's getting alittle picky. Then they would have to make another rule to run DOT wheels too. There are alot of us running DOT front runners but most 15x3.5" wheels are not DOT legal.

Yes, that's the point: to eliminate that. I know people do it, but they're all fooling themselves. That stuff isn't legit street car gear. The manufacturers all warn how dangerous it is to run those up front on the street and how they aren't designed for it. I for one take them seriously.

How many cars there do you think could actually pass a full inspection anyway?

That's much trickier, since inspections vary state to state. I think they already have a requirement that the car must be registered and therefore passed inspections. I don't know if they have anything in place to check that they haven't altered the car since inspection, though.

The bottom line is that this is a question of what the purpose of the Pump Gas Drags is, and if running skinnies up front violates that purpose. From what I read of the rules and of their mission statement, this policy is IMHO a contradiction of their stated purpose.

No one wants to read about or watch 12 second cars. :eyes:

So they allow some stuff thats not "street leagal"

N20 is not street legal but lucky for me they allow it :)

No one wants to read about or watch 12 second cars. :eyes:

So they allow some stuff thats not "street leagal"

N20 is not street legal but lucky for me they allow it :)

I think you'd still see 9 second cars with DOT slicks on all fours... maybe even stuff in the 8's. What I don't want to see is people winning "street car" competitions with something that is in no way a street car. That's the whole point of this competition; they make it very clear in all the rules and descriptions that the purpose is to find "legit" cars.

I'm not going to make this a N20 argument because that'll turn into a flame war right quickly. :mad:

(puts away 10 ft pole)

Well, ET streets are DOT legal too. I think it's probably more along the lines of streetable rather than a something like an everday street car on normal radial tires.

Something that fill up on pump gas, drive to the track, run, and drive home. Not necessarily completely street legal, otherwise you'd only be seeing a lot of stock cars running each other, since almost any mod you do you car isn't legal.


If there's too many rules and restrictions, a lot of people that would normally particpate won't, keeping it simple is the best way.

Well, ET streets are DOT legal too.

Precisely. By "DOT legal" I didn't mean to imply radial tires (though they have a separate class for that). You can still run slicks and be DOT legal, just not skinnies.

Precisely. By "DOT legal" I didn't mean to imply radial tires (though they have a separate class for that). You can still run slicks and be DOT legal, just not skinnies.

They might be dot legal, but you can check the site and see that they're not recommended for normal driving either. They're basically slicks, besides, skinnies won't make a huge difference, maybe a couple of tenths. It's not something to get that worried about IMO.

They might be dot legal, but you can check the site and see that they're not recommended for normal driving either. They're basically slicks, besides, skinnies won't make a huge difference, maybe a couple of tenths. It's not something to get that worried about IMO.

Yes, I see that they're not at all practical for most street driving, but I have to pick my battles here. :)

They do have skinny tires that are regular street tires. My friends run them. They are just cheapies that have a like H speed rating.

The reason they allow "skinnies" is probably because it isnt safe to take a spare tire or a 125 tire and run 160mph on it.

They would rather have a skinny that isnt going to blow out at 130mph than a radial tire that does.

What you are saying is you would rather a guy run a donut spares than a "skinny"? Donut spares are street legal but you have to use some common sense. Because this is what racers do....push the edge of safety and the rules for more speed.

What you are saying is you would rather a guy run a donut spares than a "skinny"? Donut spares are street legal but you have to use some common sense. Because this is what racers do....push the edge of safety and the rules for more speed.

No, I'm advocating no skinnies; i.e. actual tires.

So then how thin? They make ACTUAL tire that are only 135 and are about 4.5" wide. See where the problem lies if you try to regulate it....

So then how thin? They make ACTUAL tire that are only 135 and are about 4.5" wide. See where the problem lies if you try to regulate it....

That is a problem. How about "at least as wide as from the factory?"

The point is that every manufacturer I've ever seen has emphatic and repeated warnings all over their wheels that say "don't run these on the street." So it seems kinda wrong to allow them in a "legit street car" competition.

M/T makes street legal front skinnies.

They are bias ply and they are DOT legal with legit tread and all.

Nice tires, but a little heavier than their racing skinnies.

I run them on the front, with M/T drag radials on the rear.

I have the MT 8 ply DOT fronts on my car.

M/T makes street legal front skinnies.

Well, okay then. Is there any reason not to require DOT tires on all fours, then?

You want them to regulate a wheel/tire combo at least as wide as it came from the factory? Thats a really stupid idea. There are plently of 15x4/15x5 wheels that are DOT legal, and most of the people i see that run a skinny use a DOT approved tire anyways...so really what are you complaining about? Actually as far as I am concerned, your whole gripe here is poorly thought out. 1st...older cars came with skinny factory wheels...some in 5-6inch width, newer ones come in 8-10 inch, so if you would try to regulate your bad idea it would be an unfair advantage. 2nd...Every state has different inspection regulations/laws...to start making silly regulations to have a car that would need to pass a true 100% compliant inspection, this would give a distinct advantage to the cars that reside in the more leniant states as well. 3rd...Like already stated there are ALOT of skinny wheel and tire combinations that are DOT legal, so why are you stuck on having NO skinnies?

Heck if were gonna start putting stupid regulations on everything, we might as well start micro-classing everything, and that would lead everyone that races to have practically identical cars...sounds like fun right?

You want them to regulate a wheel/tire combo at least as wide as it came from the factory? Thats a really stupid idea. There are plently of 15x4/15x5 wheels that are DOT legal, and most of the people i see that run a skinny use a DOT approved tire anyways...so really what are you complaining about?

1) If there are DOT approved skinnies to run, then the competition for “legit street cars” should AT THE VERY LEAST require that everyone run DOT legal tires on all fours.

why are you stuck on having NO skinnies?

2) As a separate point from the above, I don’t think it is “legit street” to run wheels that are not recommended/approved for street use. Go read Weld and Bogart’s web sites; they say DO NOT USE THESE ON THE STREET.

Actually as far as I am concerned, your whole gripe here is poorly thought out. 1st...older cars came with skinny factory wheels...some in 5-6inch width, newer ones come in 8-10 inch, so if you would try to regulate your bad idea it would be an unfair advantage.

Okay, you have a point there. I hadn’t thought that out. If some cars come with factory skinnies, then limiting cars to a factory width won’t work. I guess the only way to do it would be to have a minimum set width.

2nd...Every state has different inspection regulations/laws...to start making silly regulations to have a car that would need to pass a true 100% compliant inspection, this would give a distinct advantage to the cars that reside in the more leniant states as well.

But that is already the case. The rules already require that the car be registered and so those who live in more lenient states already enjoy this unfair advantage.

Heck if were gonna start putting stupid regulations on everything, we might as well start micro-classing everything, and that would lead everyone that races to have practically identical cars...sounds like fun right?

That’s not a fair evaluation. Just because I’m advocating adding a rule for a specific reason doesn’t mean that I want to add thousands of rules and make everyone the same. That doesn’t at all follow from what I’ve said. I made it quite clear that I was basing my thoughts on the mission statement of the pump gas drags: to race legitimate street cars.

To run wheels that say all over them NOT SAFE FOR THE STREET and WARNING WARNING DO NO USE ON THE STREET and WILL GO IN A STRAIGHT LINE ONLY and WARRANTY VOID IF YOU DON’T TRAILER THE CAR TO THE TRACK…. Well, that just doesn’t strike me as fitting in with the whole “legit street car” thing.

it's about the pump gas!!!!!! :bang: thats what the premise was when started.

so what if the front tires are not "dot" legal! did you not see that last years winner had wheely bars? how many daily driven street cars with 8ft wheely bars do you see running around? :confused:

it was to see how fast cars can go on 91 octane period!!!

the rest of it is about safety!

it's about the pump gas!!!!!! :bang: thats what the premise was when started.

Nope, you're wrong. I read the article in the issue of Hot Rod when they started the thing. They had a mission statement and they said it was for legit street cars, not gutted race cars. They said they would veto any cars that were not "legit" enough. (I forget their exact wording)

No wheelie bars this year.


They pick who they want, its invite only.


Here are the cars for this year.....http://hotrod.com/eventcoverage/113_pump_gas_drags_field_cars/

it was to see how fast cars can go on 91 octane period!!!

the rest of it is about safety!

Wrong, wrong wrong!

http://www.hotrod.com/upcomingevents/113_0401_pump/index.html

Relevant quotes:

To do that, you've got to meet the rules, send in the application form by February 18th, and convince us that you've got a real street car.

if you're closer to the 7s than to the 9s, you've got some big talkin' to do to prove that your ride isn't just a bogus Pro Stocker with headlights. The Pump Gas Drags is all about bringing reality back to the street-legal drags. Show us that your car is fast, legit, and NHRA legal

So there you have it: The most pure race of real street cars that we could engineer.

All competitors must have current street registration, a legal rear license plate with current registration decal,

So, to reiterate, it is NOT just about pump gas, period. It is about LEGIT STREET CARS.

so why is it called the "pump gas drags"? :confused:

seems you just need something to cry about? get over it and move on with your life!!! :gay:

so why is it called the "pump gas drags"? :confused:

seems you just need something to cry about? get over it and move on with your life!!! :gay:

I'll note that you simply ignored my proof and threw out a baseless insult. :)

It's the Pump Gas Drags, not the DOT Tire Shootout.

It's the Pump Gas Drags, not the DOT Tire Shootout.


LMAO ! :hail:

I'll note that you simply ignored my proof and threw out a baseless insult. :)


no! i just don't wish to argue with someone with lack of basic intelligence! :jest:

now go back in the woods and argue your point with your wife/sister!

no! i just don't wish to argue with someone with lack of basic intelligence! :jest:

Another insult! (still no argument) Do you think I will cry?

It's the Pump Gas Drags, not the DOT Tire Shootout.

So you want it to just be about pump gas and not about legit street cars? And you think your viewpoint agrees with Hot Rod's mission statement more than mine?

Touche' with your post above, I see your point.

I agree with you. I was very interested in participating in the PGD but missed out.

Touche' with your post above, I see your point.

I agree with you. I was very interested in participating in the PGD but missed out.

I think you could do it. :burn:

Stinks they only do it once per year.

They said they were interested, but I had tech problems with my pics and I missed out.

Oh, just in case there’s anyone out there who still wants to deny it, here’s some more from the horse’s mouth (i.e. Hot Rod Magazine).

http://www.hotrod.com/eventcoverage/113_0511_pump_gas_06/

While lots of people interpret that the intent of the PGD is simply to find the quickest car that can run on pump gas, the truth is that we've always wished it to be a test of real street cars you'd find at a real cruise night--stuff more like sleepers than not. It's an invitational so we can make that judgment call on a car-by-car basis, but this year we're going to tighten up both our personal selection criteria and the official rules. First off, there will be no wheelie bars. Second, we've made the tough call to limit the tire sizes, and racers now must choose from one of two types of tires--DOT slicks no bigger than 30x12.5, or any DOT drag radial. While Drag Week(TM) will have an Unlimited class next year that can get totally ludicrous with tube-chassis race cars proving their mettle on the open highway, we want to see the Pump Gas Drags(TM) stick with mostly stock-looking musclecars and trucks with small tires and outrageous powerplants.

A couple of points. Most DOT legal tires like say a M/T ET Street are rated as an LT (Light truck tire), as the requirements for certification are MUCH less stringent than a passenger car tire. So, my guess is that if you certified some of the front runners as LT tires, they'd be legal too.

As for running front runners and skinnies on the street. I and I'm sure many other have done so. I drove a car for years with them. They certainly have limitations. But if you want to get off in the weeds that they aren't DOT legal thats fine. But, how many folks are going to run a DOT legal drag radial or bias ply in the rain for instance. Unless you like ending up upside down in a ditch it isn't a smart move either, as they suck in the rain.

Point being that many of the skinnes probably could be DOT legal, but there isn't a reason to spend the time/money doing it. Fact is they work, and folks are going to use them.

I see it as a non-issue.

So what you're saying is that there are too many loopholes to make it work?

Yeah, I pretty much figured that out. That's why I changed to wanting a minimum size. :)

Do you even have a car that would be competitive at PGD? Or do you have a car that MIGHT be competitive if the rules were bent in your favor? What difference does it make.

"Bent in my favor?" Nice try. How about corrected to match the original and openly stated purpose of the competition?

Driven on skinnies for a few weeks at a time before.. Nothing wrong with driving on skinnies.

Peace,
Josh

My fully streetable daily driver T/A actually drives better with the skinnies than the regular street tires. While I am sure it does not handle the twisties as well and most certainly would not stop as fast, I have yet to test those theories in my daily driving. What I do notice is the car seems to get better mileage, rides smoother, and most noticable, does not dart all over the road and require both hands on the wheel like it does with the 285/40's. Oh, and mine are the 8 ply rated DOT approved MT also.

I know Weld 15x3.5 front runner has stamped in it "for drag racing use only"
Weld WILL NOT warranty the wheel if you take a turn too fast and the wheel breaks on the street.
My cousin is a rep for Weld and gets about one call a month from someone driving frontrunners on the street and the wheel breaking in half cause they took a turn at 40 or something........and now they want the damage to thier car fixed.

This warranty is void if:
....
2.

Wheels used on applications beyond its stated load or on applications other than the wheels specified use.
3.

Wheels that in the opinion of Bogart Racing Wheels have been used on streets or highways.
4.

...

Why are Bogart Racing Wheels not intended for street use?

Bogart Racing Wheels are built for a specific application (racing), we remove as much mass (weight) as possible, while maintaining enough structural integrity to be sure that Bogart Racing Wheels will survive through their intended purpose.

Yes... "streetable." Riiiiiiiight. :rolleyes: