A-man930

iTrader: (2)

Have any of you LT1 builders out there used these or heard of them being used in an LT1 buildup with a cam on the ragged edge of streetability? And what exactly do they mean by "adjustable valvetrains only"? does that just mean adjustable rockers? Thanks.

http://www.rhoadslifters.com/

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

What do you consider a BIG cam? You can make 450RWHP with stock lifters, then move to a solid lifter.....IMO I wouldnt use em.



David

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

Like I said, on the ragged edge of streetability. And I realize that you can do without them, I'm asking about the advantages that they offer when used with an agressive cam, (better vaccum, smoother idle, less of the traditional "low-end loss for high-end gain" tradeoff, etc...). Are these claims credible? Let me just say straight out, I'm no valvetrain expert by any strech of the imagination, so if someone feels I need some education, please feel free.

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

Bump...

firetird

iTrader: (1)

you should probably worry about the rpms that you will be spinning and the pressures from the springs. stock lifters work great for almost all cams. as far as your description of a cam, thats a matter of opinion. my 250+ duration cam in my stock block is fine for the street. i think if you have to ask yourself the question, "what lifters" then you shouldnt be building a street car with a cam thats is "on the ragged edge of streetability." remember, larger isnt always better.

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

Good answer, and I don't have any particular cam in mind for my setup (which is quite a ways in the future). Again though, will these lifters tame a wild cam and eliminate some of the problems that come along with it? As far as the "larger isn't always better" idea, I know, but if these things work as advertised, I should be able to raise spring pressure, up the RPM limit, and therefore make more power without having an "un-streetable" car, am I correct?

firetird

iTrader: (1)

youre sort of on the right track but you cant just decide to turn more rpms to make more power, its not that easy. you have to have the the right setup. meaning, spring pressure is basically not in the equation. you pick the cam you want and get the springs that match. then, depending on head flow and cam profile (other things are involved as well but i dont want to get too specific) you will spin the motor to a certian rpm to achieve maximum power. if you decide to go with "stronger" springs, you really wont hurt anything other than longevity of the motor, unless you go waay overkill. so basically, i wouldnt think that those lifters are going to help you on any street car. i could be wrong but i know that the stockers will work with larger sized cams (cams that are honestly too big for ported stock heads) so why spend the extra money on something that will work just fine. im all about using stock parts to there limit. Factory parts are stronger than most people give them credit for.

Cliff notes:
no those lifters wont tame a wild cam and no they arent worth the money on a street car IMHO.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

I would never use them.

flame

iTrader: (13)

Its obvious from reading above that the responses weren't what you're looking for. I looked into those lifters after seeing the article in HotRod or some magazine last year. To me it sounds like they will tame a cam down to keep low end power and idle vacuum. I had installed a CC306 cam and was going to give them a try but have gone to a smaller cam now. I would also like to see some real life results with these in an LT1. Somebody needs to be the guinea pig and try them out.

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

HotRod Aug 2005 "Bleeding Roller Lifters"

In this article, an LS1 was first baseline tested, then fitted with a TPIS ZL-15 (236/241 deg. duration @ .050 inch; .602"intake/.568"exhaust lift... big). Crane Roller rockers were installed and the combo was tested again, results showed a loss in bottom-end and a gain up top as expected. Power occured 600-700 RPM higher, and vaccum was @ 10 inches at 800 RPM... too low for the computer to handle. After the Rhoads lifter install, vaccum climbed to 15 in. hg, idle was stable, and more torque was produced than even the stock cam. After this the article adresses the problems encountered with the alloy block's higher expansion so I don't need to go there. Anyhow, the article concludes with this paragraph.

"Rhoads lifters by themselves definately tame a wild cam on a late model combination, but when combined with compitent recalibration, the results were even better, with the hefty one-two punch yeilding outstanding results througout the entire rpm band."

Let me clarify myself here, I know it isn't as simple as just spinning the motor faster, obviously you have to have a well-configured combination of parts in order to take advantage of more rpms. What I'm seeing in these spiffy lifters is a chance to take advantage of a setup that makes gobs of power at 7 grand, but still have some semblence of sanity, (you know, enough to operate power brakes and give the computer a chance to manage the thing) and possibly even enhance the low and mid-range output that a high-rpm combo would otherwise sacrafice. I realize that I can do allot with stock parts, and there is much money to be saved in doing so, but as I said, this project is a ways away and I'm only trying to do some research well in advance. And yes, someone does need to be a guinea pig and just try them so we can quit BSing Thanks again.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

Some of us have, and were not impressed. More noise, and very little, if any, improvement seen anywhere. I would not waste my money.

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

So you have tried them? Or you know someone who has? I have heard of the "sewing macine" noise, but that doesn't really concern me. I'd be interested to see the combo that you (or whoever you know) had when the Rhoads lifters were tried out, the article I read was pretty cut and dry... they proved effective, and HotRod is generally a pretty trustworthy source wouldn't you agree? Now I realize that they hadn't messed with anything besides the valvetrain, I wonder if head/intake alterations would have negitively affected the outcome? Please understand, I'm not calling BS on you or your opinion, I'm trying to learn here, and I need a little more in-depth answers than "I would never use them" or "they don't work", fair enough? Thanks

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

Should I move this to the advanced tech forum?

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

Bump...

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

HotRod is generally a pretty trustworthy source wouldn't you agree?

Uh, let me think....No. They are not new. Those things have been around for twenty years or so. Ever since they came out (I have been in business for 34 years), I have had a customer or two try those things every time another magazine article about them hits the stands. Not one of them made any more power, drove any better nor had enough more vacuum to have power brakes when they didn't before. If there was anything there, they would be widely used by now. Most concluded they wasted their money.
if you can find a shop in your area that builds fast EFI cars, I would recommend listening to them instead of car magazines or internet message boards.

Good luck, Ed

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough, evidently you have some realavent experience, and I respect that. But what I don't get about all this, is that there were dyno numbers put up, and the whole operation was performed at TPIS' place... now would you say that they know a thing or two about fast EFI cars? And on a side note, I'd say HotRod has been around for 50+ years for a reason.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure why you bothered to ask about them. Sounds like you just need to buy a set.

TwoFast4Lv

iTrader: (8)

I am with Ed here You do not want the truth you want us to support you buying them.

Just get them and enjoy them

A-man930

iTrader: (2)

eh, I guess I'm at least somewhat guilty, . I'm going to set up a link to this thread in the advanced tech section. I asked in the first place because I wanted to see some verification that they worked, evidently you've seen them not work... fair enough, if they don't, then they don't. But no one seems to be able to tell me why they don't! I'm only so convinced that they do because I saw a dyno-certified test of them that showed them working... regardless if it was in a magazine or not, dyno #s don't just spontaniously go up for no reason. I'm sure you know what I'm getting at, you're not stupid (quite the opposite evidently). When it comes time to actually build the thing, I'll consult a builder in person, I'm using a message board because there are builders on here... for free. Thank you for your input Ed, and I may be consulting you for some of your tuning services when it comes time. Thanks again.