Racer's Lounge - Holy crap

I dont even know if this is allowed in here because it is politically related, but its not meant to start a political discussion. I just found this very interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change&pl=true

Has anyone seen this?

Yeah I watched maybe half of it a week ago...I really dont know what to think of it to tell you the truth.

Alot of the physics and chemistry involved makes perfect sence. But some of the conspiracy is very questionable.

That is some very well put together propoganda.

how do you explain the disapearance of a 6ton jet engine made with titanium. Im not trying to take the side of whoever made this, id just like to be able to come up with how hes lying. The towers did fall at freefall...how the hell does that happen?...was the video with flashes and explosions coming out windows fake? idk

bah..i'm not a big fan of conspiracy.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
more on the "conspiracy "

Popular Mechanics has it correct. These conspiracy theorist are a bunch of jackasses. Sheesh

The planes were booked for an international flight. They were full of gas, the crashes themselves didn't do any serious structural damage, but the hundreds of burning gallons of gas melted the structural supports, which caused a chain reaction.

This is going to turn into one of those "magic bullet" things. :eyes:

Im not going to say your wrong but did you watch the video? even if the fuel was hot enough to melt the supports (which doesnt make sence because jet fuel burns at under 2000 degrees and steal melts at higher temps) how do you explain the towers falling at freefall speed?

Have you gone to the PM website yet? It was one of their biggest stories months ago.

This is going to turn into one of those "magic bullet" things. :eyes:

That was actually made plausible by the Discovery Channel a few years back. They had tests and a lot of variables matched up and it did work..

I whent to the PM website and got the answer to just about every question I was looking for except the part about freefall...and I would also like some sort of an explanation to why there was molton steel found in the basement around supports. What was burning hot enough to melt steal?

The last half an hour of the documentary is interesting.

Man some of you guys will believe anything you read even without any solid proof, then others miss the statements that seem to clarify things.

And if you would have actually paied attention to the PM article, you would have seen that other things were burning other than the jet fuel, the jet fuel was just the catalyst and other things were burning such as carpet and furniture and some of the fires reached temperatures of over 1800 degrees F.

From the article:

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

i read that i guess i was just under the impression that 1800 degrees still wouldnt melt steel but weaken it. Im thinking maybe the people messed with the video and it fell slower than 10 seconds because I cant think of any other explanation for the freefall theory.

Well the reality of it is that we are not experts and neither are most of those people in that video, and neither are probably 90% of the conspiracy theorists. Most of them go off of quotes taken out of context and crazy ideas that they heard off the internet, which usually can't be trusted. I think we just need to trust the true experts and believe what they say. WHy? Because they are EXPERTS, thats what they do.

What I am trying to say is, there is no way that after watching that video you can come to any kind of conclusion. It is all tricky editing to make their theories look true.

This is all my opinion, and only that, everyone is entitled to one.

hey the matrix looked real with good editing! Get my point? dont be a damn fool and believe every cleverly presented pile of shit you come across on the internet.

hey the matrix looked real with good editing! Get my point? dont be a damn fool and believe every cleverly presented pile of shit you come across on the internet.


Or the administration. :)

^Then wheres the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon through a 16ft hole? Where did that dissapear, into thin air?

The government had a lot to gain from this, and so did alot of poeple. Open your eyes and you'll see.

All of you asshats that believe that the greatest atrocity commited on US soil in a loooong time was manufacted by our own government need to go move to the Middle fucking East. Now.

I'm pretty sure that NONE of you little punks lost anyone on 9/11 because if you did, your ass wouldnt be sitting here mindlessly trying to tell everyone that Americans were behind those attacks. No, your ass would be in the Middle East, avenging your loved ones deaths. You fools are disgusting.

^Then wheres the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon through a 16ft hole? Where did that dissapear, into thin air?

The government had a lot to gain from this, and so did alot of poeple. Open your eyes and you'll see.

you have such an open mind that your brain fell out

Even CNN couldnt report that a plane hit the Pentagon. Did you not see the same pictures as I did? Im sure there is a big part of you that doesnt want to believe it, and thats ok.

By the way, I am no little punk. I work for a 58 billion/year company and I am responsible for certain aspects for the Midwest.

Even CNN couldnt report that a plane hit the Pentagon. Did you not see the same pictures as I did? Im sure there is a big part of you that doesnt want to believe it, and thats ok.

By the way, I am no little punk. I work for a 58 billion/year company and I am responsible for certain aspects for the Midwest.


I think you are the one that needs to open your eyes, it is easy to beleive conspiracy, but their evidence is just as weak as you think the governments is.

And who cares who you work for, for all we know you are making that up. BTW, I work for 100 trillion dollar/year company. They own the world.

Dude sadly there’s as much backing behind the 'proof' that they let it happen just as much as the 'proof' that they didn't.

They arn't little 'punks', they are people with at least a fucking brain. We don't run the government by going along with everything they tell us you have to question it, how the hell do you think we got to be the united states in the 1st place, questioning and over throwing the goverment..

Think of it on a smaller scale... When you wonder why some politicians make those laws that make you say 'What the hell?'. Now why the hell would they make a stupid law that you find completely illogical. Now why would they kill thousands of people just for a little money?? To you it seems illogical but to them its otherwise.

I guess if your family died and the goverment came in and said it was suicide you'd believe every word of that and not question it huh... :confused:

The Video brings up some pretty good points that i've never seen or heard before. Not to say they are all true but who knows. All they would have to do is just release a video tape on the pentagon of any of the cameras. Altho there would have to be ALOT of people in on this for it to end up that way.

I Don't know what to believe but quite frankly i dont really care all that much anymore.

Or the administration. :)
I'm pretty sure GW Bush was flying both planes... :rolleyes:

All of you asshats that believe that the greatest atrocity commited on US soil in a loooong time was manufacted by our own government need to go move to the Middle fucking East. Now.

I'm pretty sure that NONE of you little punks lost anyone on 9/11 because if you did, your ass wouldnt be sitting here mindlessly trying to tell everyone that Americans were behind those attacks. No, your ass would be in the Middle East, avenging your loved ones deaths. You fools are disgusting.

Hey jerk off I dont know if that was directed towards me but since im the one that started the thread im assuming it is. Also I can only find one guy that believes the conspiracy and you said "asshats" meaning plural. But if you are adressing me let me make this clear. I dont believe in the conspiracy bullshit I was just trying to find ways to disprove the stuff they were saying in the video. And you dont know shit about me or who I am so before you call me a little punk you can honestly go fuck yourself. I live in northern NJ and I have a few close friends that lost friends/family and my father was involved in the cleanup crew. Not one of the people I know that lost someone close to them is "avenging their death in iraq" because you my friend are the FOOL and you would realize that your not directly avenging anyones death. The war in Iraq was not meant to avenge deaths. If you believe that more than .1% of anyone that goes over there even gets a glimpse of someone who was involved in 9/11 your mistaken.

I'm pretty sure GW Bush was flying both planes... :rolleyes:

No, hes the second coming of Jesus. :eyes:

I was just trying to find ways to disprove the stuff they were saying in the video.


Fantastic. Then I wasn't talking to you. Thanks for caring though.

No, hes the second coming of Jesus. :eyes:



pft, The Goverment told me so. It must be true!! :rotflmao:

pft, The Goverment told me so. It must be true!! :rotflmao:
Glad to see youve changed your mind! :jest:

anybody else notice how through the nineties the democrats (clinton, pilosi, berger, kennedy, more...) were talking about regime change in Iraq based on Hussein's WMD, now they pretend they never said it?

By the way, I am no little punk. I work for a 58 billion/year company and I am responsible for certain aspects for the Midwest.

holy shit can i have your autograph? :givesfuck

Why would you want my autograph? I sit in an office all day, travel quite frequently and deal with different companies on a daily basis. Not too much excitement.

It seems just because I have voiced my opinion, this thread has turned against me. Dont know why, but it has. Oh well.

Why would you want my autograph? I sit in an office all day, travel quite frequently and deal with different companies on a daily basis. Not too much excitement.

It seems just because I have voiced my opinion, this thread has turned against me. Dont know why, but it has. Oh well.

Probably since you implied that you have a job with a govt contractor that you have inside conspiracty info :rolleyes:

Why would you want my autograph? I sit in an office all day, travel quite frequently and deal with different companies on a daily basis. Not too much excitement.

It seems just because I have voiced my opinion, this thread has turned against me. Dont know why, but it has. Oh well.

okay i was a little sarcastic. nobody is on your side because your beliefs are irrational. there would be no way to cover up a "conspiracy" this big, every member of federal government would have to be in on this little secret to pull it off. thats every congressman (535) plus all of their staff (535x10) plus all the officers and fireman on the scene and their familys that im sure they told about the events (umm 500?x4 for their families) thats just a few numbers, anyway do you really think 6000 people can keep a secret that big?

and nobody gained anything from that. The current administration has lost support and a shit ton of money in the process.

i could go on for hours how irrational this shit is, but i really should get back to writing my 3000 word term paper "Cognitive distorions and Logical Fallacies in Arthur Millers Death of A Salesman "

Yeah, maybe I did loose it. I dont know. Some of that damn conspiracy bs is a little hard to swallow though and well put together. Maybe I shouldnt have watched it.

Yeah, maybe I did loose it. I dont know. Some of that damn conspiracy bs is a little hard to swallow though and well put together. Maybe I shouldnt have watched it.

its easy to get caught up in a clever story.


if the government couldnt cover up a president getting some head from an intern, do you really think they could cover something like this up :eyes:

anybody else notice how through the nineties the democrats (clinton, pilosi, berger, kennedy, more...) were talking about regime change in Iraq based on Hussein's WMD, now they pretend they never said it?

I remember those days.CNN and the rest of the liberal media never bring that up though.

Today they're saying the opposite of what they said in the 90's about immigration also.

I just don't understand why the government won't release the video tapes they took from the hotel, hwy department, and gas station close to the pentagon.
If they wouldn't withhold shit like that, videos like this would be way less likely to surface.

As far as the WTC collapses...I don't see anything fishy about them. The steel didn't have to get to "melting temps" for the buildings to fall. It just had to get hot enough to weaken the steel. When you have thousands of tons of falling steel and concrete, it's going to crush whatever is beneath it...including itself.

I just don't understand why the government won't release the video tapes they took from the hotel, hwy department, and gas station close to the pentagon.
If they wouldn't withhold shit like that, videos like this would be way less likely to surface.

As far as the WTC collapses...I don't see anything fishy about them. The steel didn't have to get to "melting temps" for the buildings to fall. It just had to get hot enough to weaken the steel. When you have thousands of tons of falling steel and concrete, it's going to crush whatever is beneath it...including itself.

yeah it doesnt take a civil engineer to tell you what happens when you fly a fucking several hundred ton plane at several hundered miles an hour at a really tall building, of course that shit is gonnna fall down

Got into this same arguement with someone I work with... conspiracy theories make me laugh :P I think I'll hafta send him this PM link, this stuff is great :D

Got into this same arguement with someone I work with... conspiracy theories make me laugh :P I think I'll hafta send him this PM link, this stuff is great :D

haha send him my email and he can tell me ALL his crazy ideas lol. some chick just gave a speech in speech class about all that hippy crap and how capitolism is evil and we should be a socialist country. when she was done she asked if we had any questions. . .well lets just say i ripped her a new one with "logic"

haha send him my email and he can tell me ALL his crazy ideas lol. some chick just gave a speech in speech class about all that hippy crap and how capitolism is evil and we should be a socialist country. when she was done she asked if we had any questions. . .well lets just say i ripped her a new one with "logic"

^ I love when people do that, although I havent had the chance to in a long time.

It is not that this was possible but that people will refuse to be believe it is possible.


Having known people in the military and family in the military with intelligence knowledge, I KNOW that conspiracy theories are based on possibilities. These theories are not just from those radicals looking to make one side or the other look bad but these are also considered as options to achieve goals. Point is, if it is possible then someone in Intelligence has thought it up. And if someone thought it up then it is not only possible but also probable is would/could be used.

IMO this is a very plausible explanation. But even if this is the TRUTH then it will not matter because people as a whole will not want to believe it.




Jack

*If you consider many of the snide posts saying it is BS these are more than likely cases where someone is incapable of believing the possibilty. These types of people need a conformist situation where everything fits nicely in to place and it would shatter their world to find out otherwise. If you understand that then you will understand how a used conspiracy can work even if the facts would show it. "No one wants to believe".

I just don't understand why the government won't release the video tapes they took from the hotel, hwy department, and gas station close to the pentagon.
If they wouldn't withhold shit like that, videos like this would be way less likely to surface.

I'm not surprised that they don't release much film footage of the pentagon, it's a pretty high security area, don't you think?

It is not that this was possible but that people will refuse to be believe it is possible.


Having known people in the military and family in the military with intelligence knowledge, I KNOW that conspiracy theories are based on possibilities. These theories are not just from those radicals looking to make one side or the other look bad but these are also considered as options to achieve goals. Point is, if it is possible then someone in Intelligence has thought it up. And if someone thought it up then it is not only possible but also probable is would/could be used.

IMO this is a very plausible explanation. But even if this is the TRUTH then it will not matter because people as a whole will not want to believe it.




Jack

*If you consider many of the snide posts saying it is BS these are more than likely cases where someone is incapable of believing the possibilty. These types of people need a conformist situation where everything fits nicely in to place and it would shatter their world to find out otherwise. If you understand that then you will understand how a used conspiracy can work even if the facts would show it. "No one wants to believe".

:chug:

It's not that conspiracies don't happen. I'm pretty sure there a many many conspiracies that do happen. Actually I'm pretty sure of quite a few. But this one, based on the obvious facts, is just not believable. Also, I do work in engineering, and to me, the way the buildings fell made total sense, and from a national security standpoint, of course they don't show the pentagon much. If you want conspiracies, do some searches on what democrat politicians had to say about Saddam Hussein and Iraq in the 90's compared to what they say about Iraq now. Oh, and not just the politicians, but the major media outlets that don't point out those inconsistencies that you can easily find with a little honest objective homework instead of just being a sheep.

Click for Google search of "1998 Democrat Iraq" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=1998+democrat+iraq)

I'm not surprised that they don't release much film footage of the pentagon, it's a pretty high security area, don't you think?

The Hwy department camera only looked down the highway...it should show the plane flying over and taking out the light poles.;)

If they are so concerned with the security of the Pentagon and the cameras pointing in it's direction, why would they be allowed in the first place?

:chug:

It's not that conspiracies don't happen. I'm pretty sure there a many many conspiracies that do happen. Actually I'm pretty sure of quite a few. But this one, based on the obvious facts, is just not believable. Also, I do work in engineering, and to me, the way the buildings fell made total sense, and from a national security standpoint, of course they don't show the pentagon much. If you want conspiracies, do some searches on what democrat politicians had to say about Saddam Hussein and Iraq in the 90's compared to what they say about Iraq now. Oh, and not just the politicians, but the major media outlets that don't point out those inconsistencies that you can easily find with a little honest objective homework instead of just being a sheep.

Click for Google search of "1998 Democrat Iraq" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=1998+democrat+iraq)

When in doubt, blame it on the democrats. :eyes:

http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0303a/rummy2.jpg

When in doubt, blame it on the democrats. :eyes:

http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0303a/rummy2.jpg

Did I blame the democrats? No.

What I pointed out is that they are blaming Bush for something that they agreed with him on ahead of time. But you don't want to admit that.

Oh and nice picture. I guess because there is a picture of when they met face to face, that means Rumsfeld is on Hussein's side...talk about :rolleyes:

:chug:

It's not that conspiracies don't happen. I'm pretty sure there a many many conspiracies that do happen. Actually I'm pretty sure of quite a few. But this one, based on the obvious facts, is just not believable. Also, I do work in engineering, and to me, the way the buildings fell made total sense, and from a national security standpoint, of course they don't show the pentagon much. If you want conspiracies, do some searches on what democrat politicians had to say about Saddam Hussein and Iraq in the 90's compared to what they say about Iraq now. Oh, and not just the politicians, but the major media outlets that don't point out those inconsistencies that you can easily find with a little honest objective homework instead of just being a sheep.

Click for Google search of "1998 Democrat Iraq" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=1998+democrat+iraq)


Let's keep this on topic and not change the direction. ALSO, this not meant to be a political thread so please let us try to keep 'parties' out of it.

The Hwy department camera only looked down the highway...it should show the plane flying over and taking out the light poles.;)

If they are so concerned with the security of the Pentagon and the cameras pointing in it's direction, why would they be allowed in the first place?

Good point... :)

One thing that I never heard of before was how some of the highjackers were still alive and not even in America or had been. How did we find out who the highjackers were?

One thing that I never heard of before was how some of the highjackers were still alive and not even in America or had been. How did we find out who the highjackers were?

There's only one that I know of, that's the one in court right now all over the news. As I understand it, FBI found him out maybe, and he also admits it in court as well as wishing more people died etc admitted in court recently.

There may be more though that I'm not familiar with.

That was the most i've watched on the 9-11 attacks... still very sad and almost brings a tear still... am I missing something though...? If the planes fuel buring and sht couldn't really bring them down...Couldn't of the bastards that took the planes have brought something with them to add to the dmg...? And what is this video Trying to prove..? Am i understanding that there trying to pin this one bush and somewhat his brother..??? This thread is going to turn into Bush fans agaisn't the world of course..I just wanna know wtf the point of this video was...People still lost there lives...What was up with the Flight 93 thing...I didn't know they never found body's, and that hold other plane landing else where...? And my final question... Why not release the black boxs off the planes?

Let's keep this on topic and not change the direction. ALSO, this not meant to be a political thread so please let us try to keep 'parties' out of it.

Good point. In regards to when we were attacked, there was a law passed in 1998 warning of attacks on us upcoming. It is called the Iraq Liberation Act, which was supported by everyone in government at the time.
Anybody that wants to know this FACT, go to google and type in:
1998 Iraq Liberation Act
[/soapbox] :)

There's only one that I know of, that's the one in court right now all over the news. As I understand it, FBI found him out maybe, and he also admits it in court as well as wishing more people died etc admitted in court recently.

There may be more though that I'm not familiar with.

I mean the pictures of the hijackers. At the end of the video they showed that some of the accused hijackers werent even on the plane and were in other countries.

Oh, I don't know, I didn't watch much of the video, it seemed to be non-factual and propoganda. One thing I did just notice, is Jman that started this thread has 8 posts lol. Seems to me he is part of the propoganda machine trying to spread this bs anywhere he can, even places he doesn't normally go. Kind of proves my point to me a little more if to nobody else.

well with music by DJ Skooly and Swae it has to be truthful....doesn't it?

but i can see this getting locked in oh say 5-8 more posts.

well with music by DJ Skooly and Swae it has to be truthful....doesn't it?

but i can see this getting locked in oh say 5-8 more posts.



If it turns into Political BS then it will get locked pretty quick.

Myself, I watched all of it and found many interesting points.

I was also cnfused with some as well.

As to the Bush thing... I can only speculate.

Bottom line is whoever put it together belives (as they stated at the end) that we have people in power that are tyrants and will go to whatever ends to get what they want. I know this is true in history but I cannot say if this video is facts put together to show a point or mere propoganda.

I have some questions as to the 'facts' they presented. 1.) Could the trade Centers have fallen from the fires? 2.) Could the cellular phones worked at 38,000 feet in 2001 with those planes? 3.) Why wasn't there more from the Pentagon to show a 757 hit it and not a missile? 4.) Then there is the Gold, all 160 Billion dollars worth, what happened and was there really only 200 million dollars in gold found and was it in trucks?

I think if we use this as a way of examing the information they gave in the video then we can determine for ourselves what the 'facts' are. After all we have a lot of very knowledgeable and intelligent people here.



Jack

Did I blame the democrats? No.

What I pointed out is that they are blaming Bush for something that they agreed with him on ahead of time. But you don't want to admit that.

Oh and nice picture. I guess because there is a picture of when they met face to face, that means Rumsfeld is on Hussein's side...talk about :rolleyes:

LOL! :gay:

LOL! :gay:


This type of stuff gets a thread closed. "plain and simple".

Wow, I just listened to a great interview with an investigative writer. He was talking a mile a minute rattling off names and happenings. WWW.PeterLance.com is his website which he says has some timelines etc.
Unfortunate that useless posts like that mentioned can get a legitimate discussion closed, too bad they can't just be deleted since they are obviously useless.

^Then wheres the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon through a 16ft hole? Where did that dissapear, into thin air?

The government had a lot to gain from this, and so did alot of poeple. Open your eyes and you'll see.

Good argument, but I'll take this time to refute it. An airplane is a tin can (actually aluminum). It is hallow. The structural supports that reinforce the wing and fusalage are less than 1/8 inch thick. Basically its the middle brown thing in a paper towel roll with wings. The ONLY solid parts of an aircraft that ever survive a crash w/fire are the engines and landing gear.

What did they find at the pentagon? Hmm engines and landing gear.

But lets discount that later....how did this huge plane fit into a 16ft (or so) hole? Well easy...when Mr. Hijacker learned to fly, he learned on a single engine tiny trainer...not a giant airliner. He missed...he hit the ground before the Pentagon and the airplane rolled/cartwheeled into the building. Thus only the solid parts of the aircraft that were tossed into the building made holes. I think PS reported that the hole in the Pentagon was created by the landing gear.

Seriously, anything thing else you need cleared up on the aviation side of 9/11 let me know.

edit:
http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images2/pentagon_hole2.jpg
thats the hole made by the landing gear i believe.

http://www.directionsmag.com/gisresponse/images/maps/dc/16_Pentagon_after_800.jpg
after clean up, you can see where the aircraft hit the ground infront of the pentagon. i am sure if the aircraft actually hit the building the kind of damage everyone is looking for would be apperant. thank god it missed though.

also here is the remains of flight 93:
http://www.dailyamerican.com/flt93/image/Flight%2093%20crash42_Copy27.gif

not much left is there? does that make it a missile also?

This type of stuff gets a thread closed. "plain and simple".

I'm done in this turd of a thread.

Good argument, but I'll take this time to refute it. An airplane is a tin can (actually aluminum). It is hallow. The structural supports that reinforce the wing and fusalage are less than 1/8 inch thick. Basically its the middle brown thing in a paper towel roll with wings. The ONLY solid parts of an aircraft that ever survive a crash w/fire are the engines and landing gear.

What did they find at the pentagon? Hmm engines and landing gear.

But lets discount that later....how did this huge plane fit into a 16ft (or so) hole? Well easy...when Mr. Hijacker learned to fly, he learned on a single engine tiny trainer...not a giant airliner. He missed...he hit the ground before the Pentagon and the airplane rolled/cartwheeled into the building. Thus only the solid parts of the aircraft that were tossed into the building made holes. I think PS reported that the hole in the Pentagon was created by the landing gear.

Seriously, anything thing else you need cleared up on the aviation side of 9/11 let me know.



after clean up, you can see where the aircraft hit the ground infront of the pentagon. i am sure if the aircraft actually hit the building the kind of damage everyone is looking for would be apperant. thank god it missed though.

Why didn't we see 2 or 3 holes from at least 2 engines and maybe landing gear? Also, there did not appear to be any markings on the ground from any pictures I have seen. But the last picture yu posted I did not see??? I do not know why???


And ROSS87T I did not mean to offend you but it would be nice to have an intelligent discussion on this.

Oh, I don't know, I didn't watch much of the video, it seemed to be non-factual and propoganda. One thing I did just notice, is Jman that started this thread has 8 posts lol. Seems to me he is part of the propoganda machine trying to spread this bs anywhere he can, even places he doesn't normally go. Kind of proves my point to me a little more if to nobody else.

Uhh well yes I only do have 8 posts but ive been a member for a year. And I was a lurker for at least 2 years before that. I do not own an LSx car so thats the reason why I dont need to ask many questions about them but I have learned more from this forum than I have anywhere else. But hey im sorry if im not allowed to post something that I found interesting because im not a member of the "i have a million posts and feel superior" club.

And ROSS87T I did not mean to offend you but it would be nice to have an intelligent discussion on this.

I think we were having one until politics were brought up.