BitViper

iTrader: (63)

Ive got a 2002 stock except for the FIPK and the Dual/Dual exaust

I read someones post tag line who noted that they got a bump of ~10hp....on a stock set up...

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

10 peak is very possible. What you will also gain is driveability, and good power/torque under the curve.
I say its defentially worth it.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

make sure you get a FULL tune, not just WOT.

this should be in the tuning section

rons 00z

iTrader: (10)

yeah no kidding i've noticed alot of non-advanced tech questions in this section lately.

BitViper

iTrader: (63)

Question... when you say..
This is a a dyno tune Correct? not An LS1 Edit or Preditor tune

Sorry gents for posting in the wrong section...Ive contactse the Md for this forum and asked him to moe it.....but I really wanted an "Advanced and technical response" not just the rank and file "sure dude...go for it" answer

Thanks

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

i think you're a bit confused.

LS1 edit is a program used to edit the PCM (aka the cars computer).. HPtuners and EFIlive are better programs, also used to edit the PCM.. they do not contain any tunes, they're just tools... just like microsoft word doesnt have any memos in it, you use it to create memos.


a "dyno tune" is the generic term people use for when their car gets tuned on the dyno.


theres a couple problems with every dyno tune (even mustang dynos)... the one he his refering to is that the tune is generally only done at wide open throttle.. so you dont get any kind of part throttle tuning.... another problem is that the car isnt loaded or driven the same as when it goes down the street, so even if you did a part throttle tune on the dyno, it woudlnt be perfect.

but, you also have to realize, almost no shop, and really no professional shop, is going to spend the hours upon hours driving your car to tune part throttle perfectly... unless you like spending ALOT of money.

anyhoo, to answer your question... unless this is a max effort stock internal car, no... its NOT worth the money to get a tune done to your car.... go buy headers, stall/gears, suspension, ect.. then when you're using what you already have, add some interal parts for power, like a cam and heads, and go get tuned..... until then, the cost outweighs the gain IMO.

BitViper

iTrader: (63)

Thanks...

I'm not trying to max out my HP....but searching for better response a bit more USABLE torque at daily driving speeds....2000 - 4000 rpm

My biggest problem is that I'm in CA. and so headers are a no go...legally..a cam is a possibility..but even with a cam I guessing I'll gain 10 - 20 and thats gonna cost 1000 bucks...so if for 250 or I can get the same..it makes sense

slow

iTrader: (7)

on a stock car 10 hp is easy to get, you don't really need lots of part throttle tuning on a stock car, change the PE multiplier, and play with timing and 10+ rwhp is very easy to find on most cars.

Ryan

Cheatin' Chad

iTrader: (3)

Guys that bring me automatic equipped cars seem to enjoy the tune on a stock(ish) car the most.Getting the vehicle to shift the way they want makes them happier than 8-12hp almost everytime. I agree with Slow. The 10hp is pretty easy to pick up.
You can get more out of an emissions cam than 10-20hp.Find yourself a good shop to deal with and go with a cam and tune that suits you.

good luck with the car

slow

iTrader: (7)

Correct, creating good calibrations for the part throttle, and WOT shifting, gives a customer a good representation of the money spent.

Ryan

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

So, why go to someone to tune your car that'll end up costing you $450~550 when you can buy the software and do it yourself for $650? Then, you can get everything the way you like it and have the ability to adjust for future mods. Let's be honest...you're not going to be totally done after the tune, are you???

BitViper

iTrader: (63)

Your assumption is that I KNOW WHAT ID BE DOING

yeah eventually Im looking at an old man cam cheaTR or the 224/224 but thats next year...Im just looking to throw a couple bills away at teh car for short term gain...

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I'll help you as well as most of the other guys on here...and then until you get the old man cam, you can learn like everyone else here. By then, you will know what you're doing.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

Nobody is assuming that you know what you're doing. Quite the opposite, we realize that noone knows what they're doing when they first start tuning. The problem is that myself and many others have started off buying a tune only to realize it was a waste of money when we had to learn to tune for ourselves later anyway. Buying the tuning software now before you have a lot of mods lets you learn at a slower pace than waiting until your combo is beyond the realm of a canned tune and then trying to learn.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

changing the PE is the wrong way to change your WOT A/F. if it is tuned correctly that will command the a/f exaclty.

BitViper

iTrader: (63)

Frankly..Im at that stage in my life ..and finaces..that Id rather throw money at someone whos capapable and good..and have it be done right..the first time..or be able to return and say FIX IT RIGHT...than to spen MY time..twiddling the car...I got way too much life in my life to spend that way.....

I am BTW always amazed at how many people are so well versed ..its amazing...Im impressed..

slow

iTrader: (7)

Did I ever say I expected a different value out the tailpipe vs my PE table?

Do you keep your cars commanding a 1.25 Equivalence ratio or richer? (11.7 air fuel ratio on gasoline)

"Setting" the PE table to something more realistic, ie, 12.5 or so, "Commands" a leaner mixture, Nobody will argue this fact, I did not say "rape" the PE table for WOT fueling (like so many old ls1 tuners do/did) like I take your post calling me out as doing wrong.

Attached is the PE value from a stock 2002 car, using 14.62857 as the stoich value for the fuel converted to air fuel ratio.

0 11.94549285
400 11.94549285
800 11.94549285
1200 11.9169803
1600 11.9169803
2000 11.9169803
2400 11.9169803
2800 11.9169803
3200 11.9169803
3600 11.702856
4000 11.702856
4400 11.702856
4800 11.702856
5200 11.60316164
5600 11.41742049
6000 11.41742049
6400 11.41742049
6800 11.41742049
7200 11.41742049

I find 11.7 or richer a bit rich for a NA application for performance reasons. This does not even factor in COT.

I took a stock 2000 TA last week, with just changing the PE table to command a 12.5 air fuel, picked up 10rwhp on a mustang dyno in 1 pull, backing up my theory of changing the PE table to a more realistic value will make good power on a stock car. The air fuel was exactly the 12.5 as commanded in the PE table.

Ryan

MrDude_1

iTrader: (4)

have you looked at a stock PE table?

lets pretend you have everything ideal, in an ideal world where the mathematical engine model matches the engine exactly.

the stock PE table is commanding it WAAY rich.

have it command something a bit more realistic, and then match that. mine is "commanding" 12.7 right now.. when i was stock, just with that change, i saw a mph diff at the dragstrip. im not tuning the car that way, but it is the correct way to command the AFR.. yes its true that the correct way to tune the AFR is different.. but thats not what is being referred to.

BitViper

iTrader: (63)

Looking at the above two posts......I rest my case....and defer to my orginal statement...
I have NO idea what you guys are talking about (My own limitation..not yours)..I dont care...

But I still am amazed!

383ss

iTrader: (14)

sorry guys, I didn't state that clear enough. YES I know the stock PE table needs modifying. once you set it to 12.8:1 or whatever you want, you should NOT use it to adjust the a/f. I have seen tuners take the pe to a 10:1 or 14:1 to get correct 12.8:1 fueling on the dyno. that is what I am saying is wrong.