JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Firebird lighting options have been talked about a lot in the past, but not recently I think. So I'll go through the basics. There are different stages according to price and the amount of work you want to do.

The most basic is what I have at the moment. I took some Wagner stock lights and cut out the back bulb area and sealed in some Silverstar H7 bulbs. If you have a dremel it's pretty easy to do. It's a brighter white and it's definetly an improvment over the stock bulbs. Bulbs were $20ea and I had the housings. A full write up by someone else is here:
http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums...star+headlight

On my install I used High Temp Copper RTV just to make sure they stayed put.


If you don't want to do the work and can spend more, you can get conversion housings for around $70-$90 that uses a removable bulb. They use metal housings with glass lenses.
eurolamps (dot) com/eurolamps/camaro_headlights.htm

The next step would be to mount projectors into the stock pop-up housings using a regular bulb. Most HID projectors can be used with slightly modded halogen bulbs like the H7. I have some Bosch E46 projectors and they use a D2S bulb, but the Silverstar H7 can be made to fit. They look pretty awesome at night and the beam pattern is great. They also seem brighter than the same bulbs in the stock housings. If you care about looks, this setup looks super nice at night. It's almost like the HID's.

There's 2 main ways to do this. The cheaper but more work way is to get used projectors and make a housing that will seal them up and fit them into the stock location. This will pretty much only cost the price of the projectors and bulbs. A fellow named WS6 did this on the LS2 forum.
Note that he used the E46 projectors as well. They fit and are awesome units. His pics are gone, but I still have all of them. I'll post a few below.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

The more expensive way (maybe) would be to buy an already sealed and ready to go projector such as the HL68137 90mm Low Beam Lamp with H9 bulb from Hella. These run about $60 for each projector.
www (dot) rallylights.com/hella/90mm_modules (dot) asp

The European ECE version is more desirable due to the H7 bulb and the cutoff pattern but they cost about double. So the American SAE is the better choice. I believe you can get a Silverstar in the H9 size and the cutoff pattern can be changed if you feel the need. I have a ton of info on this light. Here's a great page of info on it:
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hella-90mm/
(moderator, this is a FAQ, nothing is sold here)

I know at least two guys who've done this:

TXHorns281
http://www.afbforums.com/index.php?&...CODE=12&CID=47




and skytower31:
Non sponsor info



Keep in mind that if you have an extra $300 laying around just about any of the above projectors or housings can be fitted with an HID bulb and ballast. Although using an HID bulb in the stock housing isn't recommended due to the light scattering and possibly blind oncomming traffic. Projectors are the way to go if you want HID.

I have an "on again-off again" project of making some fixed lights for my LS1. I'm making them completely from scratch. The lenses, filtering, venting, adjustors, everything except the projectors which I mentioned above were the E46 units. I plan to use modded H7 bulbs (Silverstars) at first and then later on upgrade to HID. I'm also converting them to bi-xenon with custom solenoids. That way both high and low beam will be HID. It's a hell of a thing to do, but I've learned a lot. So if you have any questions, let me know.

BlackHawk T/A

iTrader: (3)

Wow that looks awesome

02SilverWS6

I like the euro lights better with the HID, IMO.

Clean install though

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

HID is always better if you can afford it.

Have you compared the 2 projectors. What are the differences you noticed? Was it just the cutoff pattern?

Matt_C

JasonWW - Thanks a lot for starting this thread.
TXHorns281 has an excellent setup I'm envious of.

I've learned a fair amount tonight, just from reading the different links you've provided.

Everyone that has done this has had to make their own "cover" to fill in the area left over from the stock rectangular hole right?

...I figure if I mess with this, I'm just going to go all out and get real HID, rather than the halogens. Aside from the extra money, is this a bad decision? Or just an expensive one?

Is it true that the Bi-Xenon is really just a single projector that can do both low and high beams? I would consider this pointless considering the T/A already has 4 separate lights. What I don't understand is why they are the same price. If you can buy a Bi-Xenon that does both hi and low beams, why not buy 4 of them instead of 2 lows and 2 highs? The only disadvantage to this that I can see is the extra connectors you have to buy with the Bi-Xenon setup. Would this be a problem for fear that the little motorized shroud that moves out of the way for hi-beams would break and you'd be stuck with brights?

Here's what I'm considering right now... please point out any errors in my thinking.

For the main lights I would need either:
(2) HL68139 low beams
(2) HL68140 high beams
(4) HL87203 wiring harnesses
(4) HL97300 mounting plates
-OR-
(4) HL68141 Bi-Xenon high/low beams
(4) HL68141SC "shutter control" connectors
(4) HL87293 wiring harnesses
(4) HL87229 "power" connectors
(4) HL97300 mounting plates

For the fog lamp replacement I would need:
HL68142 90mm fog lamp including boot...
HL78175 12V 55W bulb
??? no wiring harnesses or mounting plates necessary?

More questions:
What exactly is a ballast? I see it is included in the super-high prices of these projectors.
Would there be any extra wiring that I would have to do for these lights?

And thanks in advance for the help. I've been completely impressed with the level of expertise and helpful nature of everyone on this site.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Yes, there is no kit for installing projectors into the Firebirds. Also keep in mind that when the lights are on it will be night so you really won't see much of the gap around the rectangular mounting location. Making a surround to finish them off isn't really necessary unless you want to turn them on in the day or just to please yourself. I'm the picky type that would fab up something just to give it a finished look. It's up to you though.

HID is a whole other animal. It will require specal wiring circuits just to support the increased load during the 1-2 minute ignition phase, but after that they only consume about 35watts. I would recommend you go to http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/ and read all the FAQ and beginners stuff to understand them better. You used to be able to read stuff without registering, but I guess they changed it. There's tons of info there.

It's true that most bi-xenon use a movable shroud to acheive both high and low. Usually the bi-xenons cost more, but it depends on the model and if they are new or used.
I'm not sure what you mean by buying 4 bi-xenons. First you have to keep in mind that a seperate high beam HID is not recommended because it takes a while to come up to temperature. No factory vehicles use a seperate HID high. If you want an HID high beam (I do) then you will have to use a movable shield to change the cutoff height. If you want to use HID low beam projectors and matching high beam projectors, then you will have to use a halogen bulb in the high beam. Besides, do you want to spend $600 on just ballasts and bulbs? That's too rich for my blood. There's no reason why you can't get 4 of the low beam Hella 90mm and just use the inner two aimed higher or else remove the shield from it. Just use a halogen bulb in them. On the low beam you can use the HID.

You also have to keep in mind that the Hella's use a H9 bulb, so you either have to find a rebased HID bulb to fit it or else mod the Hella to accept the D2S bulb.

I'm not vary familair with the part numbers, let me get back to you on that or you can just describe the parts.

The ballast is basically a transformer. It's going to boost the nominal 9 or 10 volts up to 20,000+ for the bulbs to light off and then the voltage goes down some. I'm a little foggy on the exact numbers, but I'm sure they are listed in the FAQ on that site I mentioned.
Yes, you will need extra wires and relays for the lights.
Also, there are quality ballasts out there and there are junk ones that should be avoided. Some have the ignitor module built into the ballast and some are external. Again, read up on the FAQ page. I'll post some more links later on.

For now, I would focus on getting good projectors into the car with some modded Silverstars. They are an awesome upgrade. Then when you are ready and have the money, get good ballasts and bulbs. They should just swap right in (depending on the projector you choose). You only lose the $40 or whatever on the bulbs. Plus if an HID goes out on you, you can pop the halogen back in temporarily. Seriously, the Silverstars in a good projector look great. Bright white and it still has the color at the cutoff to give it that blue twinkle as your car approaches. Any color bands at the cutoff depend on both the bulb and projector plus tweeking the sheild.

Matt_C

Okay, I've read up some of the FAQ sticky's on the HIDplanet website... that is some good information. I've given up on the HID high-beams, but will probably get a halogen projector.

I'm almost convinced to take your advice at the bottom and get some decent projectors and put halogen bulbs in them... a few questions first:

-Question 1-
Quote:
"You also have to keep in mind that the Hella's use a H9 bulb, so you either have to find a rebased HID bulb to fit it or else mod the Hella to accept the D2S bulb."
--When I went to the Hella website you posted
I believe they have some that already have the D2S bulb. HL68139 is a low-beam HID Xenon lamp with a D2S capsule (capsule = bulb right?), with ballast and adjusters. Am I missing something with this or did you not know it existed. It appears to be the full HID setup.

-Question 2-
...If I get the regular Hella halogens (HL68137), which come with the H9 bulb, if I want to switch to HID, I will need to replace the entire lamp (capsule, bulb, projector, everything) right?

-Question 3-
I compared the dimensions of the two (HL68137 & HL68139), and they have a different depth and capsule. I'm fairly confident that the capsule is the bulb that makes this so much more expensive with the D2S HL68139... but is it capsule that makes the depth difference?

If so, this leads me to -Question 4-
Couldn't I just get the halogen lamp (HL68137) and the D2S replacement capsule (HL78400) and save over $350 ?

HL68137 Halogen low-beam lamp $59
HL78400 D2S replacement $102
vs.
HL68139 HID low-beam D2S lamp $538

See replacement capsules at *Non sponsor link

If it appears so, I am led to -Question 5-
If the D2S replacement capsule is rated at 35W, and the halogen lamp runs at 65W with the H9... do I have a problem?

Again, thanks for the help.

HAZ-Matt

iTrader: (8)

I'll take a crack at these questions. Don't take it as the gospel.
I want to say that the D2S Hella 90mm is a new (well to me at least) addition to the page, but I could be mistaken. I don't remember it from when I was reasearching this stuff a year ago.

Did you check out these links:
*Non Sponsor Links

You should be retaining the projector, and replacing the H9 bulb with the D2S capsule which will require some modification.

The D2S one has to be bought with the D2S capsules and ballasts. The H9 housing option is good if you want different ones or have the ballasts and capsules already.

"The dual light source (H9/D2S) labeling on the front glass made several of us wondering a long time if Hella actually used the excact same optical parts, and just replaced back plate so that it accepts the 2mm shorter D2S bulb. But a closer inspection have showed that the optical surfaces of the projector are different. The variance is not easily seen by a naked eye.
The H9 unit has a slight cutout of where a D2S wire should go through reflector, just like OEM HID projectors have. The 90mm unit, in general, is designed for a high output light source (e.g., the H9 bulb). The beam pattern is reportedly DOT-compliant ("harmonized beam") with the H9 bulb at 1870 lm (at 12.8V) - in terms of light output at the various test points decreed by existing US regulations. Actual bulb lumen output on the highway at say, 14.0V would be 136% of 1870 lm, or 2543 lm. A D2S capsule, with 3200 lm output, only produces 26% more lm than the H9, at highway voltage, so optics would not be oversaturated, which can typically happen when original light source is much weaker than an HID bulb."

Ballasts?

I don't follow the question, but typically the wattage of HIDs is lower than a halogen.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the D2S is an HID bulb and is the most common one. And yes, I know all about the HL68139 (I have detailed pics if you need them). They are the complete setup, but I didn't mention or recommend them because their "Hella" expensive. $538 each. So a pair would run $1076. If you have the money and don't want to do as much work then they are a pretty good choice. Keep in mind they are deeper and you may have trouble fitting them if they can fit at all.

No, I wouldn't screw you on that. You can modify the back part where the bulb fits so that it will accept the D2S bulb. HAZ-Matt posted 2 good links. *Non sponsor information
Jon Broomfield (Skytower) has actually done the modification, I haven't. So you can contact him for details and pictures on how he did them. He sent me some pics a while back, I'll post them at the bottom.

No, the housing contains a movable shield inside and is just bigger overall.

Yes, that is what I was trying to steer you to. You would need 2 of the HL68137 housings for $120 total and about another $300 for good D2S bulbs and Hella Ballasts. So for about $420 compared to the $1076 for the Bi-xenon kit. You can run the regular H9 bulbs in them for a while if you want to see how you like them while you save up money for the HID upgrade later on. I'm a poor boy so I can't buy everything at once. The lights I'm building from scratch use a D2S bulb so I'm modding an H7 Silverstar to fit them and then later on when I have the money saved for HID parts ($300), I'll do the upgrade.
No problem there. Keep in mind that the HID bulbs use a lot more current when starting up than the 35w they consume after they startup. So ideally you want to upgrade the wiring going to the ballast, not go through the headlight switch and instead use the headlight switch to activate a 30A relay to power the ballasts. This will reduce the strain on your headlight switch and possibly keep it from burning out over time. It will also send a higher voltage to the ballasts and costs very little. So I highly recommend doing it that way.

2002 Trans Am

Jason since you seem to be an expert on this. Would the following products create a true HID setup?

Pair of Philips D2S bulbs
*Non Sponsor

Philips Ballast
*Non Sponsor

Bosch E46 projectors
Where the hell do you buy these things?

Wiring harness
Where to buy?

Old headlight assembly for mounting...anything else?

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Trust me, I'm no expert. I just read a lot. Well, I do a lot of research and save good links, too.

Yea, the bulbs and ballast are what constitute an HID system. I'm not familiar with that new Ultinon 6000K bulb. In general, the Philips 4300K don't have any yellow in them. The Sylvania 4300K usually do have a little yellow. As they burn in they will get even whiter. I guess the Ultinon 6000K is a good one. It is made by Philips so I don't see a problem with it. It is a bit more expensive, though.

That particular ballast is a real good one. It's 3rd gen Hella with built in ignitor. There is a slightly better one though for our cars because the room is so tight. It's the same ballast but from the Audi. It has a longer lead and the plug is angled 80*. I put a comparison picture below.

The E46 projectors are from BMW. The BMW E46. Don't even try to get them from a dealer though. way too expensive. I got mine used on e-bay.

A wiring harness can be made.

If you don't want to build it, Jon mentions a guy who sells them for $80.


I've seen a few other places sell them as well from $50-$80. I plan to make my own. It's easy.

That's about it.

You can get all those parts here:
hidtech.com
They should have some E46 projectors. I don't see any listed on their site right now, so you'll probably have to ask. They typically run btween $150 and $200 for a pair.
They have the Philips 4300K D2S bulbs and Hella ballasts (have to ask about the Audi version) for $279. They have a lot of high quality stuff. Check it out.

2002 Trans Am

Thanks for the info...I have these in my plans one day.

2002 Trans Am

E46 projectors $100

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Wow, that is a nice price. I couldn't find them earlier.
They are compact and have a nice color band at the cutoff line. They are made for the HID D2S bulb, so you don't have to mod them.

CULATR

iTrader: (96)

those e46's will they fit in the housing without cutting the back out?

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Here are some pics from VVS6. He bent the metal back a little, but I don't think he had to cut anything.

ShowstoppaTransAm

very good info

jorgez28

Ok so does the H7 bulb directly plug to the factory wiring for the stock headlights???????

jeremymcclure

OMFG. I think i just found the headlights for my porsche fron end conversion!!!

thank you so much!!