Drag Racing Results - ffhp 347

one ffhp 347 ls6 with patriot stage 2 ls6 heads, one TSP 232/237 cam tuned by trevor at TSP, with LS6 intake, bassani mid length headers, borla, and 4.11 gr ran a best of 11.8 at 117 3 weeks ago. Last week my best was a 12.1 at 115 and this tonight it ran a 12.4 @ 114 with 60 degree air and 29.93 bar pressure. I'm pretty pissed seeing as how my cam only (tr 224) ran a best of 11.9 @ 116.

You can have all the power in the world but if you cant get it to the ground you wont go anywhere. What tire/wheel combo you running?

60 ft times please.

Coach

1.84 for the 11.8 pass, 1.83 for the 12.1 pass and 1.81 last night no spinning. Running 26x11.5 et streets. I realize that there should be room for improvement, but if my 60' is getting better then why is my et getting worse? I don't change much when I race and I am very consistant with my car, esp for a M6. With the old combo, weather effected my et more than my driving, if I hit a 12.0, then that is where I would be for about the whole night, maybe go a little faster if it got cooler. I want to say that it could be me, and I understand how much easier it is to blame the builder. So, if someone at ffhp would like to run my car when I move to louisville in 10 days to see if it runs the #'s then I'm game.
Really tho, I wonder if ffhp forgot to do the valve job I paid for them to do when I had them do my motor.

Your 60ft is not very good. Sounds like something is wrong for sure.

Coach

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that when I launch this set up I am around 5.5-6k, and it vibrates so bad that I am actually rolling foward in the beams (last night I went from shallow to deep when the third yellow came on). I used to launch at 4500 rpms, and no vibrations, rolling or nothing. Anyone else launching that high have any issues like this?

Any suspension mods ?

sounds like you have some other problems...maybe you should take care of them before placing the blame on someone else.

If it's vibrating that bad ,maybe you are getting knock retard?

MPH is dropping too. Maybe your lifters are going bad.

How can you blame it on the rotating assembly?

Have you done a compression test with the engine warm? If so, what were the results?
What were the cylinder leak down #s for each cylinder with the engine warm?

What's your fuel pressure during the runs?
Have you monitored your runs with a real time scanner to log for KR, LTRIMs, etc?

There are WAY too many things that could be going on to immediately blame the rotating assembly.

Also, why would you change out the exhaust manifolds now? Identify the PROBLEM first before swapping out things that are not going to solve your issue. At the minimum, I would get the problem sorted out before swapping to different headers, etc. The headers are not the issue b/c you ran 3 MPH faster 3 weeks ago with the SAME setup. Why would your Bassani's suck out 3 MPH gradually over time? That is NOT your issue at hand.

Get a compression test at operating temp, then move to a leakdown at operating temp before swapping on different parts that aren't gonna change what's currently going on.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that when I launch this set up I am around 5.5-6k, and it vibrates so bad that I am actually rolling foward in the beams (last night I went from shallow to deep when the third yellow came on). I used to launch at 4500 rpms, and no vibrations, rolling or nothing. Anyone else launching that high have any issues like this?

Why would you continue the run with a car vibrating that bad? If there's something internally wrong with the enigne then flogging it with 5.5K+ dumps and busting it down the 1/4 is not gonna help anything.

Vibrations could be due to TONS of things:
rotating assembly
clutch
broken motor mount(s) ... to name a few.

I would def be pissed also if I went from 11.9 @ 116 cam only to 12.4 @ 114 after stage 2 LS6 heads and a bigger cam. However I'm in agreement with everyone else, you need to identify the problem first. I see you are from St. Louis. Did you run your 11's at GIR in March? If so, the DA was around -200 to -1000! You say you ran your 12's with 60 degree temps and poor barometer. I haven't done the calc for that but I'm guessing the DA was at least 1000 feet. That is a fairly significant difference right there. Still the heads/cam should have picked you up 3 to 5 mph. So in bad air the worst you should be is near your cam only best time from when you ran in good air.

Well, last night was the first time it rolled out that bad. The week before it rolled a little on the last pass for the first time, which i didn't think anything of. Then on the first pass last night it rolled a little, and on the second pass it rolled a lot. I stopped after that seeing as how my car is also my ride home, I did not continue to flog the car. I was thinking headers a couple of weeks ago when I ran the 11.8, found some for cheap and thought it is easy and worth a shot. I replaced the clutch with the motor, spec stage 3, and gave both a good break in (1500 miles). It is running a little rich, no kr that I know of. I have not done a compression test since I really noticed problems last night. I'll check the motor mounts on Sunday to see if that is it.

I really hope it is not a lifter, since it was a lifter that cost me my last motor. Then all of my fears about this motor will come true. I have very little doubts with the bottom end of this motor, I know that they are almost bulit proof. I never said it was the rotating assembly It is the top end, which I paid him to fix and put together, that I am more scared of.

Hell, if it turns out to be nothing they did, then I'll post an apology to them. I do not want to be a dick (probably a bit too late), but shelling out a lot of money for a motor, and then running worse than my last one makes me paranoid.

Hey Brother. Call ffhp(Brad). Most shops want there set ups to run well. I am sure they can help you. It could be something simple. ;)

Coach

I never said it was the rotating assembly It is the top end, which I paid him to fix and put together, that I am more scared of.

Hell, if it turns out to be nothing they did, then I'll post an apology to them. I do not want to be a dick (probably a bit too late), but shelling out a lot of money for a motor, and then running worse than my last one makes me paranoid.

The heads are produced by Patriot. The cam by TSP. All FFHP, I assume based on your post, was install the items?

Why even start a post that insinuates "x" place did this or that until you have actual data to support it? It's obvious that none of us, including you, really know what is going on with your car. I think it's only fair to first gather information through a post that ASKS for help instead of first insinuating "X" place wronged me but I dont' really know what's going on with my setup. Off my soap box now...

All we know is:
-It makes a bad vibration that started out soft and is now much more severe at high RPMs.
-You ran slower on two seperate days prior to the fastest times 3 weeks ago.

That is far too little info to assume it's secondary to FFHP or any other person that did work on the car.

Are there any noises that the car is making? Ticks, knocks, billowing of any smoke (white, black, blue).

How does it drive otherwise (aside from the shaking)?
Does it only shake at high RPM launches?

Any metal shavings in your oil?
Poor idle compared to normal?
Backfires, stutters, etc?

There is tons of data still not accounted for before we can try to get you in the right direction. The more info you can give us the better :cheers:

The heads are produced by Patriot. The cam by TSP. All FFHP, I assume based on your post, was install the items?

Why even start a post that insinuates "x" place did this or that until you have actual data to support it? It's obvious that none of us, including you, really know what is going on with your car. I think it's only fair to first gather information through a post that ASKS for help instead of first insinuating "X" place wronged me but I dont' really know what's going on with my setup. Off my soap box now...

All we know is:
-It makes a bad vibration that started out soft and is now much more severe at high RPMs.
-You ran slower on two seperate days prior to the fastest times 3 weeks ago.

That is far too little info to assume it's secondary to FFHP or any other person that did work on the car.

Are there any noises that the car is making? Ticks, knocks, billowing of any smoke (white, black, blue).

How does it drive otherwise (aside from the shaking)?
Does it only shake at high RPM launches?

Any metal shavings in your oil?
Poor idle compared to normal?
Backfires, stutters, etc?

There is tons of data still not accounted for before we can try to get you in the right direction. The more info you can give us the better :cheers:
Yeah, you're right I should not insinuate nothing, or even have brought their name into it. But, too late now. My apologies to ffhp for even bringing them into it. After 19 months of my car being down I am more than a little frustrated by its performance, and I tend to let that shit get to me.
The heads are Patriot, and let me give you a little history on what happened. I installed the heads in the summer of 04, took the car to Chi town to get it tuned, and shortly after that was getting on it to merge into traffic when I heard a nice smacking noise. Which turned out to be one mushroomed lifter, one bent pushrond, one totally fragged rocker arm, one scarred cam and two scarred pistons. Anyway, along with the motor, he offered to fix my heads, and install them with the top end for a great price on top of the motor.
On with the shit at hand. There is some valvetrain noise, not a lot but some. I figured, along with a mechanic friend of mine that it is normal, especially with big cam, dual springs, and harland sharp rocker arms. Hell we could be wrong, and I just screwed it up even worse by racing it. I'll put a stethoscope to it to see if it is all the same or louder anywhere. It idles great, better than the old cam. No smoke, and the occasional stutter under normal driving conditions, and it did give me a nice backfire last night on my last pass coming out of first. The vibration is only at high rpms, and since I never launched it at that high an rpm is why I asked if it was normal. Have not noticed any metal in the oil, but have not checked in 2 weeks. No lifter tick, no smoke, and is there any thing else you would like to know.
Really tho, thanks SO much for the help. I tend to get pissed and fly off the handle, especially once I am frustrated. And I passed frustrated 3 months ago

The valvetrain is likely normal with that type of setup. However, did the valvetrain noise change significantly in anway since your fastest run 3 weeks ago?

The occasional stutter that you get, has that been present since your fastest run 3 weeks ago?

Regarding the backfire, did you ever have this before in the 3 weeks prior?

Is the vibration at high rpms only when you're holding high RPMs for a launch or will it vibrate if you're crusing down the road at high rpms also?

The valvetrain is likely normal with that type of setup. However, did the valvetrain noise change significantly in anway since your fastest run 3 weeks ago?

The occasional stutter that you get, has that been present since your fastest run 3 weeks ago?

Regarding the backfire, did you ever have this before in the 3 weeks prior?

Is the vibration at high rpms only when you're holding high RPMs for a launch or will it vibrate if you're crusing down the road at high rpms also?


"SCALPEL" ???? nice name, i like it!!! :judge:


PS. allready tired of the Z? WTF Levi?

:endhijack:

Ok, so upon further review I stuck a stethoscope to all the cylinders. It would seem that the "slight valve train" noise, that my friend and myself heard is, indeed, coming from piston #3. Which is the same piston that caused all my head aches 20 months ago :bang: . It is making a ticking sound that is very audible under the stethoscope. None of the other cylinders are making that same sound.
Next wednesday I am going to take it to a local performance shop to have him give it a listen, to see if he agrees with what I hear. Then, if it is indeed screwed, I'm more tempted pay him to fix it, than give ffhp a call. After all the crap I have been through with them, it may end up being more worth the piece of mind to pay someone else to fix something that I paid to have fixxed already. Granted, with my move coming up, it may not be till late summer until I can afford to fix it. Which makes another season wasted. But, it beats the hell out of waiting another 2 years for the money to buy another complete motor
Thanks all for your help, and putting up with my BS. :chug: cheers to you for helping me out, and trying to keep my hopes up that it is something else. I'll keep y'all updated if you are intrested. To use internet lingo, this is sooo teh ghey :gay: