Stereo & Electronics - Tweets in the a-pillars...not good.

Been on the final stages of my audio upgrade and trying different locations for the tweets. With the x-over set on flat for the tweet there is no way they can sit on the a-pillar anywhere. Its waaaaaaay to bright with the tweets up there. The best location seems to be in the kicks. I can flush mount the tweets alone in the kicks and it sounds much much better. Not sure how you guys with tweets up there put up with it. They must be tuned way down.

You are right! I thought I was the only one. I put in some Alpine components in the front along with a new amp and all new two ways in the back and sailpanels. I tried all sorts of locations high and none sounded as good as mounted just above the 6 1/2 speakers in the door. I was pleasantly surprised that it was fairly well balanced left to right and not overly bright like you said. These tweeters seem to be more omni directional than I thought they would be plus you can adjust the angle slightly.

Usually the closer the tweet is to the mid, the more defined the soundstage. However, there are exceptions. The reason I have my tweets at the bottom of the A-pillars, is because every time I shift, my left knee was blocking the driver's tweeter as I worked the clutch. I mounted the tweet low in the a-pillar, turned the eq down, and played with the crossover point. It works rather well now. If you can mount your tweets in the kick panel, I say go for it. Before making permanent mounts for it though, I would use some double-stick foam tape, and try different locations and angles for the best sound.

Before making permanent mounts for it though, I would use some double-stick foam tape, and try different locations and angles for the best sound. Thats where I'm at. Using the tape to see where it sounds best.

Tweeter location is more about imaging and staging. If they are too loud by the a-pillar, simply reduce their volume level. It's ultimately up to the listner, though. If you like them in the door, then that's fine.

Well I went back to the a-pillar but I'm going to the front of it by the windshield.

hey i havnt got my Kappas compo... system yet but i was planning on putting
them behind the a-pillar defrost vents( the vents are worthless to me down here in TX ), and then adjust levels for balance.,
i dont like the idea of cutting holes in my panels for a set of tweeters.
just my 2 cents i will get pics hopefully but this weekend. speakers are in transit.

camcamaro1991

I've seen them in there and they look good but for me it justr seems like it to much in my face. I've got extra a-pillars just in case I hose them..lol

I have my tweeters from my Kenwood set (KFC-P603) on my a-pillars and quite frankly, they sound the best there. I tried all locations (on the dash under the windshield, on the doors, near the mids, etc) and they just didn't seem very effective. My Formula does not have the upgraded stereo from the factory so there are no tweeters on the doors.

hey i just got these off the UPS truck

2 sets of 6 1/2 infinity kappa 60.7cs components, although i am only going to use 2 cross overs and i am only goint to use 1 set of the tweeters.
now i just need to wire them in.

still waiting for more speakers to come in.
kappa 4x6's are in transit for the very back side panels in the rear.

I ran my a-pillar tweets off the headunit and amped my doorspeakers, so they are louder. Sounds badass.

Yeah. Every 1" distance from the center is a 180 deg phase shift and corresponding time lag. Usually the closer the speakers are together, the better the stage will be. But alot of times the stage is low since the speakers are low. That is why sometimes you have to seperate the tweeter and move them to the A-Pillers to bring the stage height upwards.

You can also do the same thing by placing some cheaper tweeters up high to compliment the Component set, but you usually need to play them pretty soft and low and usually set the X-over points much higher so it's more transparent. Mine was a 30 ohm resister and X-over point was set about 8.4 kHz. Helped to bring the stage back up while the tweeters are still mounted low in the kicks. Powered them off the deck.

I can't wait to get back from all my traveling and do up a really nice systems.

I got the Infinity KappaPerfect 6.5 components in the front and the 6.5 subs only in the sail panel area, and a 10" type R sub, my friends are absolutely floored at the sound quality, I'm pretty shocked and impressed as well...

Pic of the installed tweeter pods, kinda blurry, but you get the idea.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Carlos01SS/Installed%20tweeter%20and%20pods%203-30-07/100_1060.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Carlos01SS/Installed%20tweeter%20and%20pods%203-30-07/100_1061.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Carlos01SS/Installed%20tweeter%20and%20pods%203-30-07/100_1063.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Carlos01SS/Installed%20tweeter%20and%20pods%203-30-07/100_1064.jpg

didnt snootch make those?

didnt snootch make those?


???

I got them from a a member in this site, I forgot who he was though...

I can find out if you're interested...

Those are mounted in the front Sail's not the A-Pillars. If you mounted them in the actual A-pillar, you can bring the stage more forward and up a little more. Mounted in the sails isn't a bad spot and it's a much easier install. But if you ever want a little more from your sound stage, mounting them more forward with help even more. You can also bounce them off the windshield for even more flexibility in tweaking the stage.

Put em in the kick panel if you want better imaging. I also mount another set behind the rear view mirror (facing towards the window) in combination with a midbass center channel for good imaging.

Those are mounted in the front Sail's not the A-Pillars. If you mounted them in the actual A-pillar, you can bring the stage more forward and up a little more. Mounted in the sails isn't a bad spot and it's a much easier install. But if you ever want a little more from your sound stage, mounting them more forward with help even more. You can also bounce them off the windshield for even more flexibility in tweaking the stage.

I'd like to see some pics of tweeters on the A-pillars...Pardon my ignorance, but is the A-pillar the part where the sides of the windshield rest on?

More A-pillar mounting info here.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439229

Usually the closer the speakers are together, the better the stage will be.
Your leaving out one important thing.
"Usually the closer the speakers are horizontally together, the better the stage will be."

Meaning that the left side speakers image better when mounted vertically one on top of the other. Same for the right side. Our ears can hear very minute differences left to right, but are very bad in pinpointing sounds up and down. So you can mount the tweets much higher than the mids and as long as the left to right distance is small it will be hard to impossible to tell they are so far apart from one another.

Every 1" distance from the center is a 180 deg phase shift and corresponding time lag.
Are you talking about the tweeters only? That doesn't sound right, but I can't remember off hand how it's measured.

I didnt want to drill into anything so I took my alpine R component tweeters and veclrowed them next to the a Pillar on the dash facing inward toward teh center of the car

Just get an extra set, their cheap. Cutting a hole in them is easy as well, just cut a smaller hole and make sure it's centered. As you cut the hole larger you can shift it left, right, etc... so that it's exactly right.

More A-pillar mounting info here.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439229
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4204400&postcount=24
Good response there. Very good response. You've been learning on the right path.

I learned how time allignment can help and kill a soundstage back in 2000-2002 when I had a Pioneer P1R and kept constantly trying to use the time alignment to crutch a shithole of a car along when it came to SQ. The pathways just plain sucked in the Geo I had to work with. Angle was too steep and way too close/far.

Usually if you made a good change somewhere, it would screw up another point of the stage. The problem is time alignment can't fix the entire issue just like a 1/3 EQ can't make a response totally smooth or flat. It can only help to make it better. That's why you'll always hear a good installer say 90% of a system is in the install. There is just no way to crutch along a shitty install or a shitty car.

The camaro is a decint vehicle to start with due to the cab forward design and the long pathways in the kick area. BUT the dash juts out pretty far and can impede the stage too.

Your leaving out one important thing.
"Usually the closer the speakers are horizontally together, the better the stage will be."

Meaning that the left side speakers image better when mounted vertically one on top of the other. Same for the right side. Our ears can hear very minute differences left to right, but are very bad in pinpointing sounds up and down. So you can mount the tweets much higher than the mids and as long as the left to right distance is small it will be hard to impossible to tell they are so far apart from one another. Yes. I was kind of in a hurry to type it up. I tend to do that alot when I type. I have 1 complete thought in my head and about 1/2 of it goes on the paper. LOL


Are you talking about the tweeters only? That doesn't sound right, but I can't remember off hand how it's measured. Yes/No It corresponds to both vertical and more so to horizontal differences. The higher the frequency the more directional the sound becomes. So the phasing changes are more pronounced to a point. It follows along with the way our ears actually hear. In a logarithmic way. With midrange frequencies is where our ears start to work in the resonant or natural harmonic range. Sort of like the Fs for our ears is roughly around 1500-2800. There is a point where certain frequencies are much much more pronounced to us vs other frequencies.

Since tweeters are in a very directional frequency range for our ears to perceive, it's more important for the tweeters to be properly adjusted to the midrange point of being. The biggest reason is if the tweeter is more forward or backwards from the midrange time line, the 2nd-5th harmonics will make the sound sound more artificial and draw attention to it'self. Most sounds like a 280 timbre drum can carry harmonics up into the 4400-8900 Hz range. These are the harmonics you'll hear about. If they are missing or misplaced/misdirected, the sound becomes more artificial sounding.

So it really means you have to get the midrange right 1st and then adjust the tweeters to fall in line with the Midrange next.

the exact measurement for the phase change I don't know. I just have always remembered the 180 rule for 1" variance. But I learned that about 10 years ago. It may be an outdated rule of thumb.