Narcosynthesis

Both about the same price and perf. but the FLPs come with cats. Im moving to VA soon and wonder if they will give me a problem if I have no cats? But damn I like those QTP/Grotts and they are what I really want.

What would you guys do? This decision is driving me nuts.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

There are ways around emissions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I live in the Chicago area which has inspections and many of us get around it here. Make sure you have O2 sims so you don't get codes (passing the I/M 240 OBDII scan), and if they do any visuals, just make sure you have something that looks like a cat under there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you live in cali though, well, then it's not so easy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

There are also other ways to pass. But that varies state to state.

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>There are ways around emissions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I live in the Chicago area which has inspections and many of us get around it here. Make sure you have O2 sims so you don't get codes (passing the I/M 240 OBDII scan), and if they do any visuals, just make sure you have something that looks like a cat under there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you live in cali though, well, then it's not so easy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

There are also other ways to pass. But that varies state to state.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can you delete the codes with LS1 Edit to avoid buying the O2 sims?
I've been wondering this for a while... probably should post it in Computer Tuning forum though.

Narcosynthesis

I guess im not too worried about passing emissions. Ill be in Virginia with Hawaiian plates and an NewYork drivers license.

Yes im in the military. Talk about confusing the poor VA state troopers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Im going with the grotts most likely. Im just looking for feedback.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2000LS1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>There are ways around emissions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I live in the Chicago area which has inspections and many of us get around it here. Make sure you have O2 sims so you don't get codes (passing the I/M 240 OBDII scan), and if they do any visuals, just make sure you have something that looks like a cat under there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you live in cali though, well, then it's not so easy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

There are also other ways to pass. But that varies state to state.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can you delete the codes with LS1 Edit to avoid buying the O2 sims?
I've been wondering this for a while... probably should post it in Computer Tuning forum though.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can do it that way, but that will only keep you from seeing the SES light. If you turn off the cat tests (which you will need to without sims) you will fail the OBD scan and not pass emissions as the tests will not show as "complete".

I messed around with this on Edit for a while, and found that when you turn off tests they go to an incomplete state and you don't pass the I/M emissions test. The best way around this seems to be running sims and leaving the tests run. This is what I am doing currently. Now, if you just set the MIL to a type X = turned off but leave the test run, in theory you might be able to get by that way as long as you still have actual O2 sensors plugged into the harness and the Y-pipe to show activity. But since the test results will still be way outside the accepted parameters, I'm not sure what the I/M scan will say. Sims are basically a sure thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

<small>[ December 15, 2002, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: RPM WS6 ]</small>

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2000LS1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>There are ways around emissions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I live in the Chicago area which has inspections and many of us get around it here. Make sure you have O2 sims so you don't get codes (passing the I/M 240 OBDII scan), and if they do any visuals, just make sure you have something that looks like a cat under there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you live in cali though, well, then it's not so easy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

There are also other ways to pass. But that varies state to state.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can you delete the codes with LS1 Edit to avoid buying the O2 sims?
I've been wondering this for a while... probably should post it in Computer Tuning forum though.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can do it that way, but that will only keep you from seeing the SES light. If you turn off the cat tests (which you will need to without sims) you will fail the OBD scan and not pass emissions as the tests will not show as "complete".

I messed around with this on Edit for a while, and found that when you turn off tests they go to an incomplete state and you don't pass the I/M emissions test. The best way around this seems to be running sims and leaving the tests run. This is what I am doing currently. Now, if you just set the MIL to a type X = turned off but leave the test run, in theory you might be able to get by that way as long as you still have actual O2 sensors plugged into the harness and the Y-pipe to show activity. But since the test results will still be way outside the accepted parameters, I'm not sure what the I/M scan will say. Sims are basically a sure thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok... what about MAFT and deleting EGR/AIR stuff. Basically what I'm trying to do is justify to myself buying Edit earlier so I don't have to buy things like MAFT, etc when I do my exhaust (Hooker LT's > X-pipe > bullets) and then the bigger and better things later on. I know I will eventually have to invest in it but should I just go ahead and bite the $550 bullet if it will save me money in the long run? I'm also going to try and tune some better times out of my bolt ons before I touch the engine so I'm hoping Edit will help me a lot there too! Thanks again for all your help RPM, I really appreciate it.

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Narcosynthesis:
<strong>Both about the same price and perf. but the FLPs come with cats. Im moving to VA soon and wonder if they will give me a problem if I have no cats? But damn I like those QTP/Grotts and they are what I really want.

What would you guys do? This decision is driving me nuts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry I'm taking up your thread with my questions. I'll put in my opinion from what I've read in this Forum for over a year. But remember, this is not my personal experience!
FLP's: Fit great, great quality, can run cats with the turn of a wrench, have to buy the whole exhaust system (headers > y-pipe).
QTP/Grotts: Arguably #1 performance-wise, dual cutout option (expensive), can do choose to do the highest flowing, lightest exhaust system available for LS1 cars by buying just the headers and fabricating a true dual exhaust system that may outflow a y-pipe and catback, no cats.
There are pros and cons with each, but honestly... I think you will be perfectly happy with either choice you make. The people who have done FLP > y-pipe with removable cats love the streetability and the quieter, livable, everyday drivable exhaust... and the QTP/Grott owners are extremely satisified with their dyno numbers and unique dual exhuast tone (assuming they do not get the y-pipe/catback).
Hope this helps... and remember I have NOT owned either exhuast system, this is what Ihave gathered from over a year on this site. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

2000LS1... Edit is a great tool. You will have control over adjusting your a/f and such without the use of an MAFT once you have edit.

You can also remove all the AIR and EGR codes and tests, but as I said, if emissions is your concern you still may not pass the scan as the tests will show incomplete. But if all you’re looking for is to cut off that damn SES light, Edit is your tool! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Also, once you get into internal mods, there’s nothing like being able to adjust your idle through the PCM, and making changes to your timing and a/f for better idle quality with bigger cams, plus if you swap gears, change rev limiters or shift points (A4), change fan temps, etc. this rids you of the need for an HPP or a custom tune.

If you haven’t already checked out all the features, go to www.carputing.com for all the details. It really is everything it’s cracked up to be, IMO.

The only drawback is if you don’t have a laptop capable of supporting Edit, then you have another expense to consider before buying. Also, I really recommend having/getting a-tap before using Edit for things like a/f, spark/timing, etc. adjustments so you’re not working in the dark so to speak. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>2000LS1... Edit is a great tool. You will have control over adjusting your a/f and such without the use of an MAFT once you have edit.

You can also remove all the AIR and EGR codes and tests, but as I said, if emissions is your concern you still may not pass the scan as the tests will show incomplete. But if all you’re looking for is to cut off that damn SES light, Edit is your tool! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Also, once you get into internal mods, there’s nothing like being able to adjust your idle through the PCM, and making changes to your timing and a/f for better idle quality with bigger cams, plus if you swap gears, change rev limiters or shift points (A4), change fan temps, etc. this rids you of the need for an HPP or a custom tune.

If you haven’t already checked out all the features, go to www.carputing.com for all the details. It really is everything it’s cracked up to be, IMO.

The only drawback is if you don’t have a laptop capable of supporting Edit, then you have another expense to consider before buying. Also, I really recommend having/getting a-tap before using Edit for things like a/f, spark/timing, etc. adjustments so you’re not working in the dark so to speak. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ya, I've been to the site and read it "cover to cover" lol. Basically I want to see how fast I can get my car to go with bolt ons before I do internal mods. So basically do you think it would be uneccesary for me to buy Edit this early in my modding stage? (bolt ons only) or should I just wait until I do get that cam? Right now I am heavily leaning towards Edit being my NEXT mod to avoid buying MAFT and O2 sims... then exhaust (I will get rid of EGR/AIR). And BTW, in Texas they just hook up to our computer... no popping the hood for anything, they do check for cats though (they didn't last time but I'm basically stock so they would have no reason to). Will they be able to tell that I have deleted my EGR/AIR from just hooking up to my computer assuming I have deleted the codes with Edit?

<small>[ December 15, 2002, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: 2000LS1 ]</small>

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2000LS1:
<strong> So basically do you think it would be too early for me to buy Edit this early in my modding stage? (bolt ons only) or should I just wait until I do get that cam?

Will they be able to tell that I have deleted my EGR/AIR from just hooking up to my computer assuming I have deleted the codes with Edit?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Truthfully, if you don’t have any mods on the car right now that need the use of HPP type changes (shift points, fan, gears, etc.) then you might as well wait on Edit till you need it. Just don’t waste your money on an HPP if you think you’ll ever get edit in the future.

Yes, they may still be able to tell if you delete the AIR and EGR. To pass, you will first need to get rid of the SES (MIL) light. Edit can and will do that for you, but the down side is that turning off the tests for EGR and AIR will put your I/M status in an incomplete state. To pass the I/M scan, you must have no Type A or B MILs present (meaning no SES light) and all I/M tests must show complete. If you turn a test off, it will show as incomplete and you will fail. Now, I suppose you could try turning all the DTCs for AIR and EGR to a Type C or D DTC (no MIL/SES light) and leave the test run, but as there will be no activity from the EGR or AIR system I’m not sure if that will pass the test or not. I haven’t tested that yet because I still have AIR and EGR.

Basically, if your tests are all on and your I/M status is complete, and you have no MIL triggering DTCs (SES lights) you will pass the test. Hope this helps <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2000LS1:
<strong> So basically do you think it would be too early for me to buy Edit this early in my modding stage? (bolt ons only) or should I just wait until I do get that cam?

Will they be able to tell that I have deleted my EGR/AIR from just hooking up to my computer assuming I have deleted the codes with Edit?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Truthfully, if you don’t have any mods on the car right now that need the use of HPP type changes (shift points, fan, gears, etc.) then you might as well wait on Edit till you need it. Just don’t waste your money on an HPP if you think you’ll ever get edit in the future.

Yes, they may still be able to tell if you delete the AIR and EGR. To pass, you will first need to get rid of the SES (MIL) light. Edit can and will do that for you, but the down side is that turning off the tests for EGR and AIR will put your I/M status in an incomplete state. To pass the I/M scan, you must have no Type A or B MILs present (meaning no SES light) and all I/M tests must show complete. If you turn a test off, it will show as incomplete and you will fail. Now, I suppose you could try turning all the DTCs for AIR and EGR to a Type C or D DTC (no MIL/SES light) and leave the test run, but as there will be no activity from the EGR or AIR system I’m not sure if that will pass the test or not. I haven’t tested that yet because I still have AIR and EGR.

Basically, if your tests are all on and your I/M status is complete, and you have no MIL triggering DTCs (SES lights) you will pass the test. Hope this helps <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I'll just sell my '00 and buy an '01 or '02 and not worry about any of it, lol.

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by RPM WS6:
<strong>Just don’t waste your money on an HPP if you think you’ll ever get edit in the future.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See, that's just the thing... I know I will get Edit in the future and I don't want to hassle with buying the MAFT and HPP (and then turning right around and selling when I do eventually get Edit). I think I'll just bite the bullet and get Edit now.

<small>[ December 15, 2002, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: 2000LS1 ]</small>

2000LS1

Ahhh... messed up, refer to previous post please.

<small>[ December 15, 2002, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: 2000LS1 ]</small>

Narcosynthesis

aaah, my threads been hijacked. So qtp then? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

<small>[ December 15, 2002, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: Narcosynthesis ]</small>

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Narcosynthesis:
<strong>aaah, my threads been hijacked. So qtp then? <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL... sorry about that man, but I did contribute my opinion!

NX†C

get the QTP headers, i just finished putting mine on today and over the stepped dynatechs im very happy with them. the downside to flp's is you get the 2.5" y-pipe regardless, and i wanted a 3" so honestly talking with barry at QTP was worth the time for the offroad 3" y which come with turbo band clamps and the fit is great.plus the headers are simply second to none, as they have already proven themselves.

niphilli

I would not sweat the inspection in VA to much. Strictness varies from shop to shop. There will be a visual check though. I went with FLP, but I had plans of running cats from day 1

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

I just got my Thunder Racing headers on last week. The fit was INCREDIBLE. Im extremely happy with them. Ill dyno this week to see what difference if any they made of my SLPs. BTW, Thunder sells the same headers as Barry, I just went with Thunder because I have done alot of business with them and their customer service is AWESOME.

Narcosynthesis

I'm giving Barry at QTP a call on monday. Im going with his headers. I can't wait. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

NX†C

sweet deal, and plus his offroad y-pipe is badass, it fits like a champ.