Disaster strikes solid roller, possibly wiped out cam..
06-04-2006, 02:01 PM
#1
Disaster strikes solid roller, possibly wiped out cam.. We've been excited to get the car to the track and with the final build parts coming monday it looked like we could hit the track Friday. Last night we fired up the car with the new exhaust and dialed in the vacuum system. I had noticed more valve train noise than normal but I thought it was normal for a solid roller. I pulled the passenger side valve covers and adjusted the lash, it was very very close maybe .02 out and left the driver side for the next day. I pulled the driver side valve cover and all looked fine. I lashed 1 3 5(exhaust and intake) and 7s intake. I rolled the motor over to check #7 exhaust and something didn't look right. There was definitely too much play in the valvetrain. Tried adjusting the adjuster and it wouldn't take the lash out.
Pulled the rockers and the pushrod was straight but the lifter end had some wear. At this point I am assuming that either the lifter is damaged or the cam lobe is gone. Either way its not going to be pretty.
Pulled the rockers and the pushrod was straight but the lifter end had some wear. At this point I am assuming that either the lifter is damaged or the cam lobe is gone. Either way its not going to be pretty.
06-04-2006, 02:18 PM
#4
Originally Posted by ShevrolayZ28
Given his cam size, obviously the solids were called for.
Sorry to read of your setback, Phil. Hang in there.
Sorry to read of your setback, Phil. Hang in there.
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06-05-2006, 12:05 PM
#12
I don't think a larger pushrod is the answer....just adds additional weight to the valetrain which is only a negative if its not needed. The solid roller in my AFR 225 headed 383 has worked flawlessly....with 5/16 pushrods as well. You might have a geometry issue the the heads, shaft system, or simply a pushrod that wasn't heat treated properly. Was that side of the pushrod against the rocker or the lifter?....Whichever it was needs to be replaced even if it looks perfect by eye which I highly doubt. Look closely over ALL the pushrods in that engine....look for signs of wear more than normal. If its some sort of geometry issue I would imaging there would be others that might be showing some irregular wear. As I said....going to a larger pushrod tube isn't the answer. MANY a high performance SBC running solid rollers with 5/16 pushrods unless yuor running some ridiculous amount of spring pressure (greater than 650 lbs. over the nose) which would be uncalled for with the weight of the LS valvegear and an 8000 RPM rev limit.
Good luck sorting things out...
Tony M.
Good luck sorting things out...
Tony M.
06-05-2006, 12:41 PM
#13
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It's been tested several times that larger diameter pushrods will gain horsepower as they remove deflection so i'm going to have to disagree with Tony there. Although we would be in aggreance that this is most likely not the cause of the problem at hand.
It sure does seem like those are two different pushrods or that one got beat to death and removed material from it, wow, that's crazy.
Also, I assume you meant .002 out on your original post and not .02 out. .02 is quite a drastic change. Good luck!
It sure does seem like those are two different pushrods or that one got beat to death and removed material from it, wow, that's crazy.
Also, I assume you meant .002 out on your original post and not .02 out. .02 is quite a drastic change. Good luck!
Last edited by DAPSUPRSLO; 06-05-2006 at 12:48 PM.
06-05-2006, 12:45 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by Phil99vette
I need to call my engine guy, looks like I may need thicker pushrods. Looking at the lifters they appear to be setup for the one size up in pushrods.
Do those lifters have priority oiling to the roller wheels?
06-05-2006, 12:51 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by Phil99vette
2 pushrods, both sitting on counter notice the height difference
Notice any excess metalic flakes in the oil lately? That pushrod looks like it's been beet up pretty good. Look at the crooked whitness mark that's been cut in it!
06-05-2006, 01:06 PM
#16
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
Usually the lifters have a 5/16 recieving hole which would be just fine if those push rods are 5/16 diameter. If those pushrods are a 3/8 diameter I see no step down and the pushrod end is too big for most typicall lifters. My isky redzone lifters are set up for a 5/16 ball end on the pushrod and i'm going to be running 250/700ish spring pressure on the street.
Do those lifters have priority oiling to the roller wheels?
Do those lifters have priority oiling to the roller wheels?
The wear on the shorter pushrod, shown in the photo, looks to have been shortened by wear, and some of the worn metal got stuffed into the oil passage.
*Disclaimer: There's a pretty good chance I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. I'm just trying to learn and participate in the discussion.
06-05-2006, 01:11 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by ShevrolayZ28
I'm thinking it might be the other way around. IE 5/16" pushrod that has been run in a 3/8" receiver.
The wear on the shorter pushrod, shown in the photo, looks to have been shortened by wear, and some of the worn metal got stuffed into the oil passage.
*Disclaimer: There's a pretty good chance I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. I'm just trying to learn and participate in the discussion.
The wear on the shorter pushrod, shown in the photo, looks to have been shortened by wear, and some of the worn metal got stuffed into the oil passage.
*Disclaimer: There's a pretty good chance I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. I'm just trying to learn and participate in the discussion.
None of us know 100% what happened there, but we all try to help out however we can
06-05-2006, 01:12 PM
#18
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
It's been tested several times that larger diameter pushrods will gain horsepower as they remove deflection so i'm going to have to disagree with Tony there. Although we would be in aggreance that this is most likely not the cause of the problem at hand.
Just thought I would further clarify my statement because there are also combinations that would run better with a heavier spring/ larger pushrod combination, but are much more short term drag race oriented....not the typical dual purpose applications most of the readers on here are running or looking to build.
JMO of course...
Tony
06-05-2006, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Agreed....but only when the spring pressure, RPM, and length of pushrod dictates that move (to the larger pushrod). I always try to use the lightest valvetrain components and the least spring pressure I can reliably get away with that still gets the job done in a combo I plan on putting some miles on (such as my Vette for instance). People that read these boards can read a blanket statement like a soild roller needs a 3/8 pushrod and 3/8 pushrods are better when in reality there are applications that can easily get by with a 5/16 and in some ways would be beneficial due to requiring less valvespring spressure to control its mass. A 3/8 pushrod is significantly heavier even though it doesn't sound like a big difference on paper.
Just thought I would further clarify my statement because there are also combinations that would run better with a heavier spring/ larger pushrod combination, but are much more short term drag race oriented....not the typical dual purpose applications most of the readers on here are running or looking to build.
JMO of course...
Tony
Just thought I would further clarify my statement because there are also combinations that would run better with a heavier spring/ larger pushrod combination, but are much more short term drag race oriented....not the typical dual purpose applications most of the readers on here are running or looking to build.
JMO of course...
Tony
. My car is a street strip setup, but no daily driver by any means and haven't even implemented this combination yet so it's hard for me to speak with 100% knowledge of what's going to pan out. I do have to rely on my short block builder though for this as i'd trust just about anything this guy has said and he seems to think I'll be fine driving around on the street with bigger then most would run lift and spring pressure wise. I'm speaking of Erik at HPE. I would've run 7/16" pushrods if I could've but didn't have enough room in my heads for them and the back of the trunion strap (to the push rod cup side) hit the pushrod and i'd rather use a 3/8" pushrod then grind even .005 from my rockers. I'm using 1.95 rockers though and will have very very fast valve action hence the need for my larger pushrods. This motor will only see 7500 rpm to. Most would indicate weight on the lifter side of the valve train is irrelevant (within reason ofcourse).
