TSP catted Pacesetter install experience/issue
06-13-2006, 08:39 AM
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TSP catted Pacesetter install experience/issue So with the help of my father-in-law (FIL), we put on the TSP Pacesetter headers with cats on the wife's '02 T/A. I thought I'd add to the existing information in hopes it will be of use to the "next guy". I also, at the end, have a question/issue and would love some feedback.
After having read, printed out, and digested numerous web pages and threads on the subject here's a list of the things I had used:
socket wrenches: 1/2, 3/8, 1/4
sockets: 10mm, 11mm, 15mm, 1/4, 3/8 (all in regular and deep depths)
wrench: 10mm, 11mm, 15mm, 1/4,3/8; I used a box/open end wrench that has a curved part allowing a ratchet effect; ratcheting wrench would work as well
many, many extensions, conversions, and universal joints for all sizes socket wrenches
sawzall (aka reciprocating saw) with metal blade (18 tooth)
exhast tailpipe expander (on loan from Autozone )
antiseize
dielectric grease
1" heater hose
wire ties
Removing all the old stuff was pretty straightforward and fit with the Pacesetter instructions you get with the headers. Getting to the rear O2 sensor clip above the tranny pan was not fun but I have somewhat slim hands thankfully. I unbolted the small bracket and never rebolted it up, just wire tied it to the fuel (?) lines that are right there after having attached the O2 sim.
While I was doing the removal, my FIL tried a dry fit of the exhaust pieces. Big problem. I suspect that when TSP designed their catted Y for the Pacesetters, they utilized the uncoated headers for determining the sizing for their piping. The issue, of course, is that when the headers are coated they're much larger in outer diamater and the TSP piping doesn't fit. That sucked and cost us roughly 4 hours of messing around. The succinct solution: Get the headers on, put the Y pipe in place and the passenger's cat pipe. Then line up the two pieces (driver's cat piece and passenger's extension) to determine how long a cut you'll need to make. Use the sawzall to cut a line along the length of each pipe such that it reaches just short of the length you need. I think ours were about 1.5" long. Use the tailpipe expander (a MUST HAVE tool) to expand the cut end on each so it slips over the headers easily and can be adjusted as needed. Don't bother trying to grind off some of the metal, it simply will take too long and probably not work.
The install of the new headers went pretty easily. No cutting at all was required which was great news. Having the passenger side coils moved up and out of the way was key, but was a pain all by itself. Someone here had suggested they only reattached three out of the five bolts/pins/whatever to keep it in place. Viable option. I unbolted the four you could see and only loosened the fifth and rotated the coil bar out of the way. When done I put all four back on but never tightened the fifth. Don't really care what happens to the bolt anyway.
The installation of the #4(?) spark plug wire sucked b/c the headers come with an AIR, presumably for earlier years. Blocked off for '02s. It was in the way big time of the wire and of putting the oil dipstick tube back on.
Attachment of the EGR lines wasn't much fun, as has been noted elsewhere. The passenger side was close enough that I bolted the side closest to the #2 cylinder and just tightened it down, effectively stretching the heater hose. Then I attached the other bolt/nut/lock washer.
The driver's EGR was simply unreachable stock. I removed the original hose and cut a piece of the new heater hose off (longer than stock) so that I could more easily attach this side. Not a big deal if you're prepared.
I used my own experience and judgement for tightening the manifold bolts to the Aluminum block and erred on the loose side. No leaks using the existing gaskets so I did ok. Will check over the next month or so. Not sure how you could get a torque wrench onto some of those but you're welcome to try.
Since we have a Borla catback on the car, I opted to spread the straight pipe between the pipe connecting to the Y and the one going up in the rear end (it has an elbow), thus giving me some extra length to do the entire fit. Again, the expander was invaluable.
I used band clamps at the header connections only but I have purchased another for the driver's side cat where the U clamp hits the floor. The aforementioned two were put on because I cut the pipes. The U's in the other locations seem to be working fine so I won't bother replacing them.
It is the driver's side cat where I have a problem and want some recommendations. The heat shield of the cat is VERY, VERY close to the brake lines and probably impacts them. Has anyone rerouted these lines because of this? Is this really going to be an issue? Can I flatten or cut off the heat shield? Other thoughts?
Lastly, the support for the stock Y pipe simply doesn't fit. For now I used some simple aluminum banding but am going to get some small metal or plastic blocks to create a buffer between the body and support and go back to using the sturdy, stock piece for peace of mind.
The TSP system overall fits quite close to the car, thus giving you good clearance and I'd say we're generally happy with it. For the price, it is a good value IMO. It also seemed to quiet down or "settle" our fully open Borla when not really getting on it. But when you want it to, it roars louder than ever and sounds absolutely beautiful. So beautiful, in fact, that the wife got a ticket on the way home enjoying it a bit too much
I didn't put this into the stickie since those things can get unwieldy but mods are welcome to append my notes if that is desired. Looking forward to thoughts on my driver's side cat clearance issue.
TIA
PS: Big thanks to jrp for the stickie info and foff667 for the Pacesetter instructions. Mirror link for foff667's instructions.
After having read, printed out, and digested numerous web pages and threads on the subject here's a list of the things I had used:
socket wrenches: 1/2, 3/8, 1/4
sockets: 10mm, 11mm, 15mm, 1/4, 3/8 (all in regular and deep depths)
wrench: 10mm, 11mm, 15mm, 1/4,3/8; I used a box/open end wrench that has a curved part allowing a ratchet effect; ratcheting wrench would work as well
many, many extensions, conversions, and universal joints for all sizes socket wrenches
sawzall (aka reciprocating saw) with metal blade (18 tooth)
exhast tailpipe expander (on loan from Autozone )
antiseize
dielectric grease
1" heater hose
wire ties
Removing all the old stuff was pretty straightforward and fit with the Pacesetter instructions you get with the headers. Getting to the rear O2 sensor clip above the tranny pan was not fun but I have somewhat slim hands thankfully. I unbolted the small bracket and never rebolted it up, just wire tied it to the fuel (?) lines that are right there after having attached the O2 sim.
While I was doing the removal, my FIL tried a dry fit of the exhaust pieces. Big problem. I suspect that when TSP designed their catted Y for the Pacesetters, they utilized the uncoated headers for determining the sizing for their piping. The issue, of course, is that when the headers are coated they're much larger in outer diamater and the TSP piping doesn't fit. That sucked and cost us roughly 4 hours of messing around. The succinct solution: Get the headers on, put the Y pipe in place and the passenger's cat pipe. Then line up the two pieces (driver's cat piece and passenger's extension) to determine how long a cut you'll need to make. Use the sawzall to cut a line along the length of each pipe such that it reaches just short of the length you need. I think ours were about 1.5" long. Use the tailpipe expander (a MUST HAVE tool) to expand the cut end on each so it slips over the headers easily and can be adjusted as needed. Don't bother trying to grind off some of the metal, it simply will take too long and probably not work.
The install of the new headers went pretty easily. No cutting at all was required which was great news. Having the passenger side coils moved up and out of the way was key, but was a pain all by itself. Someone here had suggested they only reattached three out of the five bolts/pins/whatever to keep it in place. Viable option. I unbolted the four you could see and only loosened the fifth and rotated the coil bar out of the way. When done I put all four back on but never tightened the fifth. Don't really care what happens to the bolt anyway.
The installation of the #4(?) spark plug wire sucked b/c the headers come with an AIR, presumably for earlier years. Blocked off for '02s. It was in the way big time of the wire and of putting the oil dipstick tube back on.
Attachment of the EGR lines wasn't much fun, as has been noted elsewhere. The passenger side was close enough that I bolted the side closest to the #2 cylinder and just tightened it down, effectively stretching the heater hose. Then I attached the other bolt/nut/lock washer.
The driver's EGR was simply unreachable stock. I removed the original hose and cut a piece of the new heater hose off (longer than stock) so that I could more easily attach this side. Not a big deal if you're prepared.
I used my own experience and judgement for tightening the manifold bolts to the Aluminum block and erred on the loose side. No leaks using the existing gaskets so I did ok. Will check over the next month or so. Not sure how you could get a torque wrench onto some of those but you're welcome to try.
Since we have a Borla catback on the car, I opted to spread the straight pipe between the pipe connecting to the Y and the one going up in the rear end (it has an elbow), thus giving me some extra length to do the entire fit. Again, the expander was invaluable.
I used band clamps at the header connections only but I have purchased another for the driver's side cat where the U clamp hits the floor. The aforementioned two were put on because I cut the pipes. The U's in the other locations seem to be working fine so I won't bother replacing them.
It is the driver's side cat where I have a problem and want some recommendations. The heat shield of the cat is VERY, VERY close to the brake lines and probably impacts them. Has anyone rerouted these lines because of this? Is this really going to be an issue? Can I flatten or cut off the heat shield? Other thoughts?
Lastly, the support for the stock Y pipe simply doesn't fit. For now I used some simple aluminum banding but am going to get some small metal or plastic blocks to create a buffer between the body and support and go back to using the sturdy, stock piece for peace of mind.
The TSP system overall fits quite close to the car, thus giving you good clearance and I'd say we're generally happy with it. For the price, it is a good value IMO. It also seemed to quiet down or "settle" our fully open Borla when not really getting on it. But when you want it to, it roars louder than ever and sounds absolutely beautiful. So beautiful, in fact, that the wife got a ticket on the way home enjoying it a bit too much
I didn't put this into the stickie since those things can get unwieldy but mods are welcome to append my notes if that is desired. Looking forward to thoughts on my driver's side cat clearance issue.
TIA
PS: Big thanks to jrp for the stickie info and foff667 for the Pacesetter instructions. Mirror link for foff667's instructions.
Last edited by kanwisch; 06-13-2006 at 09:46 AM.
06-13-2006, 09:05 AM
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Sorry to hear that you had so many problems. My coated Pacesetters and TSP Y-pipe bolted together. I have the cats and also the straight pipes, and both bolt together with plenty of room and great ground clearance.
06-13-2006, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LS1 Sounds
Sorry to hear that you had so many problems. My coated Pacesetters and TSP Y-pipe bolted together. I have the cats and also the straight pipes, and both bolt together with plenty of room and great ground clearance.
The whole pipe fitting thing is odd given your experience. I presume your Camaro is an '00 to '02.
10-04-2006, 12:18 PM
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It just occurred to me I should add to this. I left everything alone for a few weeks and have re-examined the setup. The close fit has gained some space so I can only conclude that the pieces have settled in some. I've rechecked the bolts and everything's still tight, so I'm not entirely sure where the extra space came from but am just happy its there.
Now we gotta deal with the rear end pinion bearing going out
Now we gotta deal with the rear end pinion bearing going out
10-04-2006, 06:39 PM
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how much clearance do u have on the driver side of the ypipe. idk if mine was put on wrong cause we did it in the dark but the bend before the cat sits 4 inches off the ground and im at stock height. Im hitting it on speedbumps lol do u think its jsut installed wrong? im gonna look at it this weekend
10-05-2006, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by p8ntmunky
how much clearance do u have on the driver side of the ypipe. idk if mine was put on wrong cause we did it in the dark but the bend before the cat sits 4 inches off the ground and im at stock height. Im hitting it on speedbumps lol do u think its jsut installed wrong? im gonna look at it this weekend
Our ride is stock height too so when I get some time I'll crawl under and get a measurement for you. But the exhaust fits awfully close to the body so I'm not sure the system itself could be improved much, at least with regard to fit on our car. If you've read extensively about these things, I presume you know everyone's fit is at least a little different
10-05-2006, 04:46 PM
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yea its the u clamp hitting but idk it just doesnt look right. im going to upload some pictures tomorrow but it fits very close to the body its pretty much perfect but the amount it hangs down just doesnt look right. u can actually see it sticking out under the car...if i cant do anything about it then o well but i would like to be able to go over bumps without having to roll over them sideways. I want to lower my car also and if i did it 1.5 inches that pipe would be sitting less then 3 inches from the ground and would most definately hit every speedbump no matter wat angle i take it at.
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10-06-2006, 07:01 AM
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Looks similar to mine. The clearance to the ground from the lowest point in the header system (driver's cat) is 3.75" (looked like 4 until I put the tape measure right on it).
Now your complaints about speed bumps have varying meanings because speed bumps vary in design everywhere. The ones I encountered while traveling in San Jose were wide and generally flat while the ones in my neck of the woods tend to be very narrow but also somewhat high. Obviously the latter are worse than the former.
Lowering is something I don't see ever doing so you're on your own there. Its just not of interest to someone at my age (generally). Besides, with only 3.75" to spare, it wouldn't seem very wise to do that given that the '02 T/A is used as a daily driver as well as drag strip ride.
EDIT: One other note about this header setup. We've got the Borla on the car as well and I am convinced that the addition of the catted headers actually calmed the Borla's sound DOWN when you're not really getting on it. This has been helpful to avoid attracting undue law enforcement attention. At WOT, however, she's a real beauty.
Now your complaints about speed bumps have varying meanings because speed bumps vary in design everywhere. The ones I encountered while traveling in San Jose were wide and generally flat while the ones in my neck of the woods tend to be very narrow but also somewhat high. Obviously the latter are worse than the former.
Lowering is something I don't see ever doing so you're on your own there. Its just not of interest to someone at my age (generally). Besides, with only 3.75" to spare, it wouldn't seem very wise to do that given that the '02 T/A is used as a daily driver as well as drag strip ride.
EDIT: One other note about this header setup. We've got the Borla on the car as well and I am convinced that the addition of the catted headers actually calmed the Borla's sound DOWN when you're not really getting on it. This has been helpful to avoid attracting undue law enforcement attention. At WOT, however, she's a real beauty.
Last edited by kanwisch; 10-06-2006 at 07:07 AM.
10-06-2006, 10:36 AM
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yea after looking at those pictures im pretty sure the pipe coming off the driver side header or the cat pipe are just on wrong and i hopefully just have to turn them a little bit. Also ive seen the ory has dents in the pipe where im having clearance issues, i guess ill just switch to that one or get a custom y if i ever decide to lower my car.