Header question: paging metal experts!
03-25-2003, 09:58 PM
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Header question: paging metal experts! Is there a good way to seal slip on collectors on "race" style headers? This spontaneous question has plagued my thoughts all day. After searching the archives on this topic the only thing I came up with is, "you're gonna have trouble sealing those slip on collectors." Since this is an information exchange I will offer my humble ideas for critiquing.
Welding: How the hell you gonna get the gun of a wire feed welder around the inside edges? Every time stick welders and exhaust is mentioned together people start shaking fingers so thats out too. (no idea why on that last one, so lets make that a question too) And with TIG there's that pesky gun problem again.
Brazing: Should seal okay except I'm not sure the braze would hold at high temperatures.
JB: While it may be ok on parts of my truck, my SS... don't think so.
All this has spawned from a post by "Chris ARE 360" about those whoop a$$ lookin new Edelbrock headers. But since my car is primarily street driven, leaks will drive me nuts. Surely there has to be a way. Any ideas will be appreciated...
<img border="0" alt="[USA]" title="" src="graemlins/patriot.gif" /> Troops
<img border="0" alt="[shoot]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> Saddam
Welding: How the hell you gonna get the gun of a wire feed welder around the inside edges? Every time stick welders and exhaust is mentioned together people start shaking fingers so thats out too. (no idea why on that last one, so lets make that a question too) And with TIG there's that pesky gun problem again.
Brazing: Should seal okay except I'm not sure the braze would hold at high temperatures.
JB: While it may be ok on parts of my truck, my SS... don't think so.
All this has spawned from a post by "Chris ARE 360" about those whoop a$$ lookin new Edelbrock headers. But since my car is primarily street driven, leaks will drive me nuts. Surely there has to be a way. Any ideas will be appreciated...
<img border="0" alt="[USA]" title="" src="graemlins/patriot.gif" /> Troops
<img border="0" alt="[shoot]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" /> Saddam
03-26-2003, 01:08 PM
#2
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Re: Header question: paging metal experts! By the time you're down to the collector I
doubt the metal will be getting hot enough
to bother normal brazing rod.
I think stick welding is frowned upon for
its high open circuit voltage (40-80V); any
stray current might well fry some electronics.
MIG has a lower, constant working voltage.
If the slip-on has a long enough overlap before
you get to the slitted region, there should not
be gross leakage. My SLP Y-pipe is a slip fit
where it meets the I-pipe, and there's not a
hint of leakage there. I think it's all in the
details of the joint design, inner-to-outer tube
tolerances and the extent of the unslitted overlap
(this is what cuts any blow-past down to negligible
before you get to the relief slit).
If you have a grossly sloppy fit, you might try
some of that aluminum air conditioning tape; 1
turn, 2 turns, whatever, it will be pretty stable
where it's between two pieces of steel. If it's
too tight for that, but too loose to seal well,
might try some pipe dope (coat the inside of the
outer, and the outside of the inner, not too
heavy but enough to get a "wet seal". Then let
the thing bake itself for a while at low exhaust
gas pressure (idle for a while) and you should
get a pretty good, quiet seal. Dunno about doing
this before a cat but I'm guessing this is not
a concern here. The issue for a cat would be
poisoning from any of the goo that got snow-
plowed into the tube instead of staying between
the two.
<small>[ March 26, 2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: jimmyblue ]</small>
doubt the metal will be getting hot enough
to bother normal brazing rod.
I think stick welding is frowned upon for
its high open circuit voltage (40-80V); any
stray current might well fry some electronics.
MIG has a lower, constant working voltage.
If the slip-on has a long enough overlap before
you get to the slitted region, there should not
be gross leakage. My SLP Y-pipe is a slip fit
where it meets the I-pipe, and there's not a
hint of leakage there. I think it's all in the
details of the joint design, inner-to-outer tube
tolerances and the extent of the unslitted overlap
(this is what cuts any blow-past down to negligible
before you get to the relief slit).
If you have a grossly sloppy fit, you might try
some of that aluminum air conditioning tape; 1
turn, 2 turns, whatever, it will be pretty stable
where it's between two pieces of steel. If it's
too tight for that, but too loose to seal well,
might try some pipe dope (coat the inside of the
outer, and the outside of the inner, not too
heavy but enough to get a "wet seal". Then let
the thing bake itself for a while at low exhaust
gas pressure (idle for a while) and you should
get a pretty good, quiet seal. Dunno about doing
this before a cat but I'm guessing this is not
a concern here. The issue for a cat would be
poisoning from any of the goo that got snow-
plowed into the tube instead of staying between
the two.
<small>[ March 26, 2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: jimmyblue ]</small>
03-26-2003, 04:12 PM
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Re: Header question: paging metal experts! NAPA stocks step-down stainless band clamps.
One half of the clamp fits the actual 3" pipe while the other half is slightly larger to fit over the expanded pipe, Part# for the 3" is
733-3222...the brand is TorcTite.
One half of the clamp fits the actual 3" pipe while the other half is slightly larger to fit over the expanded pipe, Part# for the 3" is
733-3222...the brand is TorcTite.
03-26-2003, 06:01 PM
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Re: Header question: paging metal experts! Thanks for the replys fellas.
Match Go, I was unspecific in my previous post, I was particularly interested in the joints where the primarys and the collector intersect. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> Sorry about that. It may be somewhat asthetically challenged, I suppose band style clamps could be clustered on the primarys to work as well. Do they make em that small?
Though this may take a new thread, this all stems from those new Edelbrock LS1 headers seen on the Pace website. (I'm sure sponsors carry them as well.) In the description, it says that slip on collectors "allows for tuning the primary pipe length to individual engine requirements." How does one go about tuning primarys and what gains, besides fitment issues, are there to be had? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Match Go, I was unspecific in my previous post, I was particularly interested in the joints where the primarys and the collector intersect. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> Sorry about that. It may be somewhat asthetically challenged, I suppose band style clamps could be clustered on the primarys to work as well. Do they make em that small?
Though this may take a new thread, this all stems from those new Edelbrock LS1 headers seen on the Pace website. (I'm sure sponsors carry them as well.) In the description, it says that slip on collectors "allows for tuning the primary pipe length to individual engine requirements." How does one go about tuning primarys and what gains, besides fitment issues, are there to be had? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
03-27-2003, 12:27 AM
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Re: Header question: paging metal experts! Gas weld using steel instead of brass rod should work fine. This is exactly what the muffler shop guys do as well. I have gas welded the clamp on systems in the past and it works great. Just be careful to shield anything that may not be able to take the heat. You typically generate a lot in an area when gas welding.
