redformulaws6

iTrader: (9)

I didnt know where to post this quetion, but i noticed that alot of forced induction members use meth injection, so i thought you guys would be the ones to ask. I live in the desert area of california, and my car seems to heat up pretty bad at times, even with my hp tuners programmed to have the fans fun on automatically. i have the lingerfelter aluminum intake, and i feel a difference in power with the intake, however, it can get hot at times. wondering if meth injection kit would be beneficial for me???

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

i believe snow sells an 'na' kit. it would fill the same need as any NA cars that need to run race gas for their compression etc.

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

Useful if you are pinging on pump gas, or if you tuned to take advantage of alcohol's cooling properties. A modest nitrous shot would probably be more effective, and maybe some hood vents.

Jim

Draco

Methanol will cool your IATs, creating a denser air charge entering the engine. cool air = power.

Methanol per LB of air will make more power then gasoline (higher specific energy), if you tune timing and fueling properly.

As stated, Meth can also be used to eliminate any pinging and KR that might be experienced in a hot N/A setup.

Yes you can benefit slightly. Will it be as effective a power adder as nitrous? no way, but it will definitely be safer.

1fastz

iTrader: (16)

so meth on N/a motors is safe, but isnt as beneficial as nos. but still...how much added power are we talking about?.. becuase meth kits are cheaper than nos and safer, so im leaning on getting a meth kit as well.

FormulaFire

iTrader: (20)

I don't think it would be worth the gains really.. the main thing with meth is it will allow you to make more power without detonating. For a little more you can pick up a simple dry kit.

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

Meth is "safer" than nitrous because it just richens your mixture without adding any oxygen. Nitrous is a chemical supercharger, and must have the right amount of fuel added for a safe burn. Without the right amount of fuel, that extra oxygen starts oxidizing other things, like your pistons.

My point is that if you add in the right amount of fuel to go with the nitrous, and keep the nitrous amount modest, it is as "safe" as meth, and will make more power. Try adding a 75 shot. It will give you about 110ft/lbs. more torque, and if your run a quality kit, you'll benefit from nitrous' cooling properties as well.

To confuse things, you could always run a wet kit with nitrous and meth! There's a match made in heaven for hot climates.

Jim

chuntington101

i dout you will cool the intake temps much! they will already be cold thanks to running a vacum! a decent meth kit should let you run more timing or compresion though.

id personal go for the tried and tested (on N/A as well as FI) water injection set up! this will permit you to run the engine a LOT harder than with just pump gas! also might be worth looking into direct water injection. this will let you tune the exsact amount of water each cylinder gets (think you would set it using EGT and dept). this will let you run more timing and more comp.

just worth a not it statesthat water injection is banded in F1! so there much be some gains to it!

thanks Chris.

PS, you would see better results from runing N2O, but then do you want to???

Draco

This totally depends on how much you spray, and how well you tune the car to take advantage. Its not just a matter of installing the kit and spraying it. On a near stock car, I'd think you could make up to 20 HP especially in a hot climate. On a full heads/cam setup with high compression heads, maybe 30. Forced induction cars are seeing anywhere from 20 to 50 HP when they add methanol injection and tune for it.

Check my results... I'm making 520 rwhp with NO intercooler on a stock bottom end. I'd never risk going over 450 rwhp without an intercooler or methanol, because the IATs just get too hot and the motor will detonate itself to pieces.

With methanol you are taking advantage of its properties as a fuel to make more power. WIth nitrous, you are cramming more oxygen into the engine (and the fuel to go with it) - this gives nitrous more potential as a standalone power adder because you can easily add up to 200 HP worth of oxygen/fuel (more if you are a nutbar).

Honestly, methanol works best if your engine is being pushed to its detonation limits. On a non forced induction car, this is rarely the case, and nitrous will be a much more effective power adder (and quite safe if you set it up right) for the time and expense involved.

eviltwins

We're talking about using it to combat detonation, not just to add power. If you spray nitrous into a N/A motor that already knocks, what's going to happen?

Water injection on a naturally aspirated engine is very iffy. You're displacing some air and fuel in the cylinder so you need to bump up compression or timing just to make up for the lost power from injecting water. Methanol will fight detonation just as good or better than water, and let you make more power on pump gas.

DeltaT

iTrader: (5)

The original question never mentioned knock problems, but my answer covers knock, engine cooling by using meth, and an alternative source of additional power he might be interested in that can work well in hot areas.

Whenever I mention nitrous, it's with the assumptions that:

A: The motor is in good shape to accept nitrous
B: It's done correctly, with the right mods and in prudent amounts

Jim

chuntington101

why is water injection iffy on a NA engine???? and whats the diffrence to using it on NA or FI??? you are suing it for the same perpous, to combat knock not cool the intake!!!!

also you are only adding a very small volume of water. you use somthing like 10% tops on a full blown FI motor so you want need that much on a high comp NA set up! and how much of the fuel air mix will you loose runing say 5% water(to fuel)???? not a lot!

Chris.

Julio

Your problem is controlling the volume. Its trickier on an NA.

Another issue is distribution and temp. On a forced induction motor there is plenty of temp created by the mere compressing of air. Every psi= 11 degree's approx. So 10 PSI = 110 DF above ambient. Remember the words flash/atomize.. so on a blown motor its a piece of cake.

Not saying it doesnt work, dialing it in.. thats another deal.

And treat it like if you were building a fuel system for your vehicle. If you displace 10% of your fuel.. the system for what ever reason doesnt work.. you'll be in trouble real fast.