Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific - bigblock or smallblock.....

:bang: as the title says... I have the option of using a bigblock thats already assembled and sitting in the shop or a smallblock which is in pieces right now.. I 'm not gonna list the size of either engine as I would like to get a couple money runs with the car once I sort it out :) which ever I do go with is gonna be sprayed, but I really dont know if I want the extra 100lbs plus a bigblock brings to the table... my father has me rethinking the smallblock option as I can have a more reliable,driveable bigblock that will still make good power on the bottle :confused: I dont know what the hell to do... I could have the best of both worlds and buy an aluminum block for the bigblock engine, but I really dont want to spend the $$$$ :bang: as far as a run down of the car, its a 94 camaro thats gonna have a 25.2 cage in it and stock suspension on a tiny 325 drag radial and/or possibly a 29.5x9 or 30x9 radial slick...


jay

BBC, its a no-brainer.

BBC, its a no-brainer.
damn thats was quick..lmao..

Turbo SBC....

Turbo SBC....
turbo bbc

BBC all the way!

BBC no shit

No replacement for displacement.

well the smallblock has been put into play... my fathers friend(our engine builder) picked it up this morning so I guess I'll have to see what it makes on the dyno before I choose.. I think the big block will just sit until I have some $$ to start the build on my other car... car number 2 will be a 25.2, 10.5 tired outlaw style car, so the big block with twins turbos will suit it better...

any of you big block guys know how much your cars weigh?

jay

'95 camaro with full interior, power windows and locks all working lights weighed 3100# with a Gen VI GM block (540") and aluminum heads.

No replacement for displacement.

well, there's always a big turbo or 2 smaller twins!!! :judge:

well, there's always a big turbo or 2 smaller twins!!! :judge:

Well you can put those on a BBC just as easily as a SBC.

Well you can put those on a BBC just as easily as a SBC.

of course, i was just saying there is a replacement. but there's always an addition! :)

in a Camaro shell? I want to see this....twins!!!

'95 camaro with full interior, power windows and locks all working lights weighed 3100# with a Gen VI GM block (540") and aluminum heads.


damn you, thats pretty light consider the extra 100lbs for a big block.......was that race weight with you in it or just the car alone?

I actually have 2 bigblocks that I can choose from, one of them is in my fathers buick right now... we'll see...worst case senerio is we fit the car for both a smallblock and big block and just use motor plates :drive: :devil:

jay

With the room in a F body, I'd say sb.

that was the car w/out driver (the car in my avatar) the big block fit pretty good actually once you clearance the cowl. run a crab cap distributor and a crank trigger and all is well..

damn you, thats pretty light consider the extra 100lbs for a big block.......was that race weight with you in it or just the car alone?

I actually have 2 bigblocks that I can choose from, one of them is in my fathers buick right now... we'll see...worst case senerio is we fit the car for both a smallblock and big block and just use motor plates :drive: :devil:

jay
well wht sort of bbc?...cid, type of heads, etc..?

With the room in a F body, I'd say sb.


The BBC doesn't take up much more room.

http://www.porteighty.biz/uploads/incar5.jpg

Its not that bad. I actually think it easier to work on a 4th gen with a BBC than to work on an LT or LS motor.

I wouldnt want to make turbo headers for a BBC, is there enough room to do it? I know there are some SBC ebay headers that will fit, just have to cut the flange off and weld a v band....

Well you can put those on a BBC just as easily as a SBC.

Here's how GMMG did it.

http://www.pbase.com/donbe/image/360707/large.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/donbe/image/360708.jpg

Heres one with a blower. Its not street legal but it does show some options 4th gens have.
http://www.porteighty.biz/uploads/blower.jpg

If you've got a saw-all, 5 pound hammer, welder, basic tools and a will anything can fit.

Where?

Well, I have a BBC and a ls1 with twin turbo.
If I could afford it, I would put a TTls1 where the 427 is in one second.

BBC 550hp 14mph hwy. 700r4 9" 3:50 11:1 comp. - been very reliable
(till I blew the trans)

ls1 TT 700hp 25mph hwy. m6 9" 3:50 only 8# of boost and has been
very reliable, and way more driveable... crazy fast.
cars like Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hide.

Ok if I could do a aluminum bbc with twin turbo........... :drive:
that would be the way to go.

no replacement for displacement man

no replacement for displacement man


The cool thing about superchargers / turbochargers...
every 14lbs of boost is like double the displacement.

350ci -----14lbs boost---is like-----700ci.
On the plus side also, when your driving mello you can still get the 346 mpg.

:bang: as the title says... I have the option of using a bigblock thats already assembled and sitting in the shop or a smallblock which is in pieces right now.. I 'm not gonna list the size of either engine as I would like to get a couple money runs with the car once I sort it out :) which ever I do go with is gonna be sprayed, but I really dont know if I want the extra 100lbs plus a bigblock brings to the table... my father has me rethinking the smallblock option as I can have a more reliable,driveable bigblock that will still make good power on the bottle :confused: I dont know what the hell to do... I could have the best of both worlds and buy an aluminum block for the bigblock engine, but I really dont want to spend the $$$$ :bang: as far as a run down of the car, its a 94 camaro thats gonna have a 25.2 cage in it and stock suspension on a tiny 325 drag radial and/or possibly a 29.5x9 or 30x9 radial slick...


jay

Figured a SBP guy would go BBC and claim SBC. :lol:

I'd go BBC if it were a race-only vehicle.

The cool thing about superchargers / turbochargers...
every 14lbs of boost is like double the displacement.

350ci -----14lbs boost---is like-----700ci.
On the plus side also, when your driving mello you can still get the 346 mpg.


So with that math
454ci-----14lbs boost----is like----908ci. :eek2:

"Small Blocks are for Gas Mileage and Big Blocks are for Horsepower"


I see a problem with your quote, your only pushing 650hp out of your big block, Im getting 700hp out of my small block (at low boost) and I still get 25mpg hwy. :) Guess all that extra BB weight kills the handling AND the mpg :jest:

Here's how GMMG did it.

http://www.pbase.com/donbe/image/360707/large.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/donbe/image/360708.jpg


What type of intake is that for the BB? Where can that intake be found?

did the arizona speed and marine place have that intake? I remember something similar, but never looked into details as they were pricey....

Figured a SBP guy would go BBC and claim SBC. :lol:

I'd go BBC if it were a race-only vehicle.


lol.. I just saw this..I'm not one to bullshit like that but point taken :jest: as it sits I may be going with nothing... the car might be sold once its finished and rolling(which will be very shortly)..

jay

"Small Blocks are for Gas Mileage and Big Blocks are for Horsepower"


I see a problem with your quote, your only pushing 650hp out of your big block, Im getting 700hp out of my small block (at low boost) and I still get 25mpg hwy. :) Guess all that extra BB weight kills the handling AND the mpg :jest:


One thing you have to realize is my heads/cam aren't really that radical and I have no boost. Also in the future I'm looking at a 250 hp shot of nitrous so do the math and see what I'll be pushing out of that BBC then.

BBC..all the way---Bigger is Better...... :jest:

nothing like the instant torque of a big block as soon as you step on the gas

I agree with Billy. Nothing better than that instant torque of a big block.

I said BBC. Mostly because its a track car by the look of it more than a street car.

If its going to be doing a lot of miles and street crap I would say small block. An SBC is capable of laying waste to most everything on the street anyway and probably much eaieier to hook up in less than optimal conditions in addition to being more economical. Likely more emmisions compliant too in mild form.

If you have a dedicated setup, though, then those advantages become pretty irrelevant, and the BBC just makes more power.

I would say a small block would be an easier transition. Also with the technology that manufacturers are developing, Small blocks could make as much power as a big block. Another reason why I would choose a small block is that, for me, it would be a better all around vehicle. It is easier to make power with a big block, but I think that the small block is more versitile.

Either choice would be nice Jay, the small block would be more impressive (low8/high 7's), BBC cars are automatically considered to be fast, and rightfully so! That's a nice Camaro you got there (This is Juan Silver Camaro you just did!) and either set-up I'm sure would workout!, I'd like the SBC! Good Luck! Great job on my car by the way!

Either choice would be nice Jay, the small block would be more impressive (low8/high 7's), BBC cars are automatically considered to be fast, and rightfully so! That's a nice Camaro you got there (This is Juan Silver Camaro you just did!) and either set-up I'm sure would workout!, I'd like the SBC! Good Luck! Great job on my car by the way!


glad your happy with the car bro...

it looks like the big block guys are gonna get their way as it's just not cost effective for me to rebuild the smallblock we have for boost... we have a 572 with all good internals with low compression that was built with turbo's in mind, thats what will be going in the car... more then likely i will put that in and hit it with a couple stages of nitrous until I can get some $$ together to put a nice 106mm turbo and efi on it :devil:

jay

Hey, when is your planned move to South Carolina going to take place.

the best of both worlds, aluminum small block with big block displacement !

Heres some info for ya. If big blocks are the big dog on the block then how come in the NSCA and the NMCA, strictly race cars, the small blocks with turbos are the cars that have to weigh in the heaviest and have the most restrictions on them. They clearly make the most HP. again in certain applications if your planning on making over 2500hp then id go with a big block. But right now the big guns in those divisions like Pat musi and vinny budano run big blocks and if the turbo guys wernt restricted they would clean there clocks, and they have, thats why they restricted them. Not to long ago a guy with a twin turbo rob reager, beat up on musi and his 700 plus ci big block on 3 stages of nos with his 388ci TT set up that he ran all year long no maintanence, musi on the other hand went thru several motors trying to beat him. Then they changed the rules. Thats funny to take, a big block guy crying to limit the TT guys. Pathetic. One other interesting FACT, theres a big block in every trash truck made. Thats a good thing for that motor.J/K

BBC is better for most people. If you've got enough money you can get alot of hp out of a 6 cyl. But for the budget racer the hp to $ ratio is greater in the BBC than SBC route.

Hey, when is your planned move to South Carolina going to take place.
we have hit a couple bumps in the road... so as of right now i dont have an exact date... if we can clear up some issues were having with the land and our building, then we would still try and get down there by the end of the summer and try to be up and running by the fall...we'll see.. its getting cold up here in ny and i really am sick of the cold..lol...

jay

The cool thing about superchargers / turbochargers...
every 14lbs of boost is like double the displacement.

350ci -----14lbs boost---is like-----700ci.
On the plus side also, when your driving mello you can still get the 346 mpg.

Actually MORE than doubles it, on an 8 cyl. engine anyway.

Also, is your TT LS1 an actual LS1 block and heads or newer type?


.

Its got the stock 02 ls6 block, st II lq9 heads a mild cam.
At 8lbs of boost it puts out twice the power of my 427 and gets twice the mph.

If money and emissions is no mater it is a no brainer.

More cubic inches and more strength the BBC wins hands down :D

I have looked at all the combos. N2O, turbo, blower. Some of the turbo SB do put out big power but big turbo setups cost more than a deceint BB motor and N20. Not to mention the fitment issues with a V-8 turbo. Hell maybe he should go with a V-6 Buick and turbo as cubic inches dont matter with turbos.

Some of the turbo SB do put out big power

Yeah, like 2,300 FWHP, daily drivers. Gotta love it.


.

SBC :judge:

Racing-Following NMCA Extreme Street over the years....

This is what I have come up with... Mind you these are motors that ride the edge... and this is just my opinion....

Small blocks can run the numbers (ET wise), and even out run bbc's if set on kill with the weight they can run at... but they tend to break often... (burn up pistons)

Big Blocks don't need to be on all out kill, nor can they... The 10" tire, no wheelie bars, and weight they run at seems to keep it a level field.... They tend to run more MPH....

On a side note - Big Blocks tend to be hard on valve train....

Through my racing years I have found that Small blocks hate me... I have burnt up more than I can remember... I have run just as quick with them.... but I have also thrown a lot of burnt up blocks in the trash....

I am sure this is too much information and I am bored....

I voted small block because your engine compartment is pretty tight. If I were starting from scratch, I'd look at a big-inch LSx-based smallblock with nitrous. Like 440+ cubic inches. Check out the new GMPP LSx performance block for under $2000...

Jim

I voted small block because your engine compartment is pretty tight. If I were starting from scratch, I'd look at a big-inch LSx-based smallblock with nitrous. Like 440+ cubic inches. Check out the new GMPP LSx performance block for under $2000...

Jim


Nitrous is a pain in the ass on the street, haw bout turbos. :drive:
then all you need is a 346ci.

Actually MORE than doubles it, on an 8 cyl. engine anyway.

Also, is your TT LS1 an actual LS1 block and heads or newer type?


.

How does it double it at all? I certainly wouldn't expect it to. If you are running 14.7 psi of boost, that in no way means you are introducing an additional atmosphere into the cylinder. Boost is a measurement of restriction at the intake manifold, and only increases cylinder filling due to the greater pressure differential between the intake and the cylinder. There are very few engines out there running anywhere near 200% volumetric efficiency, boost or no boost. Care to enlighten me on why my thinking is wrong?


Heres some info for ya. If big blocks are the big dog on the block then how come in the NSCA and the NMCA, strictly race cars, the small blocks with turbos are the cars that have to weigh in the heaviest and have the most restrictions on them. They clearly make the most HP. again in certain applications if your planning on making over 2500hp then id go with a big block. But right now the big guns in those divisions like Pat musi and vinny budano run big blocks and if the turbo guys wernt restricted they would clean there clocks, and they have, thats why they restricted them. Not to long ago a guy with a twin turbo rob reager, beat up on musi and his 700 plus ci big block on 3 stages of nos with his 388ci TT set up that he ran all year long no maintanence, musi on the other hand went thru several motors trying to beat him. Then they changed the rules. Thats funny to take, a big block guy crying to limit the TT guys. Pathetic. One other interesting FACT, theres a big block in every trash truck made. Thats a good thing for that motor.J/K

That doesn't tell me that big blocks are worse than small blocks. That only tells me turbos make big power. Strap a set of turbos on a well built big block, and watch all of the SBC guys start crying.



To the original poster, I would go big block. Obviously aluminum would be the preference, but even if I only had a cast iron one around, I would still drop the big block in there. Big blocks are becoming a rarer and rarer breed, and I think the coolness factor would be enough for me. Plus, there is that instant torque feeling that has been mentioned in this thread before. If it needs to be streetable, just don't go ape shit with the cam. Even a mildy built BB is going to make substantial power.

Big block! and yes size matters! :drive:

I voted big block as I have a complete 468ci ready to go into my project..in hindsight I wished I picked something to put it in that didnt weigh 4500lbs...but have always had an eye for the mid-80s trucks...good thing is since its a BBC with even the extra wieght I should be able to outrun 95% or more of whats out on the streets..its a 10.5-1c street motor.

Typically BBC stuff is going to be more expensive too...budget is always a driver.

Good Luck!

turbo bbc
x100!!! :engarde: