Darton sleeve question.
07-26-2006, 07:23 PM
#1
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Darton sleeve question. I have a darton DRY sleeve block with 4.080 sleeves in it which had been cleaned up to a 4.090 bore. (420ci with a 4.00 crank) Somehow a small bolt worked its way into a head and down into a cylender and made some damage. The shop is saying that I will need to go in another .020 to clean up the damage Can the sleeves handle a 4.110 bore or is that too much for those darton sleeves? Would make it a 424 CI. (4.110 * 4.110 * 4.000 * 8 * .7854) 424.54
SOMEONE HELP! I cant afford another block..ha ha.
SOMEONE HELP! I cant afford another block..ha ha.
07-26-2006, 11:48 PM
#3
Is this an LS1 or LS6 block that someone dry sleeved for you? If so, and your block was sleeved with the Darton repair sleeve (part number 300-024) for these blocks, you are already too big. The repair sleeve is designed for a max. bore of 4.030". That leaves a .075" sleeve wall thickness. You take this sleeve out to 4.080" and you are left with .050" wall which is too thin to safely run. At 4.090" you are left with a meager .045" wall if the sleeve was bored dead nuts on center.
If you have an LS2 block with custom dry liners you may be OK. I have done a few small bore blocks for NHRA racers. The blocks I did will go safely to 4.125".
Steve
If you have an LS2 block with custom dry liners you may be OK. I have done a few small bore blocks for NHRA racers. The blocks I did will go safely to 4.125".
Steve
Originally Posted by jermzz
I have a darton DRY sleeve block with 4.080 sleeves in it which had been cleaned up to a 4.090 bore. (420ci with a 4.00 crank) Somehow a small bolt worked its way into a head and down into a cylender and made some damage. The shop is saying that I will need to go in another .020 to clean up the damage Can the sleeves handle a 4.110 bore or is that too much for those darton sleeves? Would make it a 424 CI. (4.110 * 4.110 * 4.000 * 8 * .7854) 424.54
SOMEONE HELP! I cant afford another block..ha ha.
SOMEONE HELP! I cant afford another block..ha ha.
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
07-27-2006, 12:33 AM
#4
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These were just DRY sleeves strait from darton with a finish bore of 4.080. The ones before they came out with the MID sleeves. Whats the difference between the repair sleeves and the regular DRY sleeves? Thunderracing was selling darton dry sleeves with a 4.040, 4.060, and 4.080 finish bore not too long ago. I believe these are the same sleeves.
its an ls6 block.
whats the thinnest the wall can be ans still be stable?
its an ls6 block.
whats the thinnest the wall can be ans still be stable?
Last edited by jermzz; 07-27-2006 at 12:47 AM.
07-27-2006, 02:28 AM
#5
wall thickness I'm not aware of a "dry" liner made by Darton for the LS1 before the MID sleeves came out. I'm pretty sure that LA Sleeve made liners. Or it is possible the places you mentioned used other than LS1 sleeves in an LS1 block.
The flanged repair sleeves have an outside diameter of 4.180". Much larger than this causes problems in the LS1 and LS6 blocks due to the water passage between the cylinders. In other words, there is a good chance either of breaking through into this area or the aluminum cracking in service thus leading to leaks.
To answer your thickness question, .0625" wall on the sleeves if they are well supported. Problem is they are not well supported on the common wall between the cylinders due to the coolant passage. That's why we like to see .075" wall in this application.
I'll call Darton in the morning to see if I can find out what sleeve these guys were using back then.
Steve
The flanged repair sleeves have an outside diameter of 4.180". Much larger than this causes problems in the LS1 and LS6 blocks due to the water passage between the cylinders. In other words, there is a good chance either of breaking through into this area or the aluminum cracking in service thus leading to leaks.
To answer your thickness question, .0625" wall on the sleeves if they are well supported. Problem is they are not well supported on the common wall between the cylinders due to the coolant passage. That's why we like to see .075" wall in this application.
I'll call Darton in the morning to see if I can find out what sleeve these guys were using back then.
Steve
Originally Posted by jermzz
These were just DRY sleeves strait from darton with a finish bore of 4.080. The ones before they came out with the MID sleeves. Whats the difference between the repair sleeves and the regular DRY sleeves? Thunderracing was selling darton dry sleeves with a 4.040, 4.060, and 4.080 finish bore not too long ago. I believe these are the same sleeves.
its an ls6 block.
whats the thinnest the wall can be ans still be stable?
its an ls6 block.
whats the thinnest the wall can be ans still be stable?
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
07-27-2006, 06:24 AM
#6
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How long have the MID sleeves been out? What sleeve would people use pre MID if they wanted a 4.080 or larger bore? They've been making large displacment LSX strokers since before the MID sleeves came out.
Just custom sleeves?
Well what about this. What can I tell the machine shop to check to see if the sleeves can be line bored out another .020? Just make sure the wall thickness will be .075 or larger on the finished bore?
Just for refrence, what would it cost to have that one sleeve replaced if need be?
Just custom sleeves?
Well what about this. What can I tell the machine shop to check to see if the sleeves can be line bored out another .020? Just make sure the wall thickness will be .075 or larger on the finished bore?
Just for refrence, what would it cost to have that one sleeve replaced if need be?
07-27-2006, 11:35 AM
#7
LS1 dry I've been working with Darton since 2000. Mid sleeves for the LS1 came out in 2002. Darton never made a dry liner for the LS1 as far as I recall. They don't recall making any either.
Agostino dry sleeved LS1 blocks that went to 4.100" bore, some to 4.125". That's most likely what you have but we can't be sure. I believe "sled 28" may be of help here if you can pm him.
If you can determine the finished sleeve thickness to be .075" then you have a shot.
Steve
Agostino dry sleeved LS1 blocks that went to 4.100" bore, some to 4.125". That's most likely what you have but we can't be sure. I believe "sled 28" may be of help here if you can pm him.
If you can determine the finished sleeve thickness to be .075" then you have a shot.
Steve
Originally Posted by jermzz
How long have the MID sleeves been out? What sleeve would people use pre MID if they wanted a 4.080 or larger bore? They've been making large displacment LSX strokers since before the MID sleeves came out.
Just custom sleeves?
Well what about this. What can I tell the machine shop to check to see if the sleeves can be line bored out another .020? Just make sure the wall thickness will be .075 or larger on the finished bore?
Just for refrence, what would it cost to have that one sleeve replaced if need be?
Just custom sleeves?
Well what about this. What can I tell the machine shop to check to see if the sleeves can be line bored out another .020? Just make sure the wall thickness will be .075 or larger on the finished bore?
Just for refrence, what would it cost to have that one sleeve replaced if need be?
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
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07-28-2006, 09:36 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by Steve - Race Eng
I've been working with Darton since 2000. Mid sleeves for the LS1 came out in 2002. Darton never made a dry liner for the LS1 as far as I recall. They don't recall making any either.
Agostino dry sleeved LS1 blocks that went to 4.100" bore, some to 4.125". That's most likely what you have but we can't be sure. I believe "sled 28" may be of help here if you can pm him.
If you can determine the finished sleeve thickness to be .075" then you have a shot.
Steve
Agostino dry sleeved LS1 blocks that went to 4.100" bore, some to 4.125". That's most likely what you have but we can't be sure. I believe "sled 28" may be of help here if you can pm him.
If you can determine the finished sleeve thickness to be .075" then you have a shot.
Steve
They determined the sleeve walls to be .11X thick right now with the current bore, so boring the sleeve to fix it shouldn't be a problem. Might just have them just go to a 4.125.
The board member I bought the motor said that Dave @ Cartek had the sleeves installed in a really reputable shop on the east coast and that they are LS sleeves but I'd have to call him to find out exactly what they were. He didn't go with the MID sleeves because at the time they were "touch and go."
Thanks again!
