MavrikTA

iTrader: (27)

Ive been doing some research and I would LOVE to be able to run 8lbs of boost with the STS system. The only way I have seen people do it, however, is with Methanol injection. Is there not a FMIC built(understandably difficult on these cars) that is effecient enough to use instead of Methanol? Has anyone done 8PSI without Methanol? How did you get away with it?

enginjoe

iTrader: (11)

There are several FMIC kits that will get you 8 psi. Just search this forum and you will see alot of info. TRT has one for example.

I am running meth to get 8psi right now, because I couldn't fork over for the intercooler yet. My plan is to have an IC, with the meth as insurance for high boost situations.

SSnakekiller

iTrader: (8)

Search for OBX intercooler. That is what a lot of the guys are running. It will allow you to run 8-9, maybe 10 if timing is tuned way down. Install is a bit involved though. Here is an install from about 2 yrs ago: OBX FMIC Install

The thing is though, the intercooler only brings your IATs down (which is definitely a great thing, but is not as effective as methanol).

With methanol, you have 3 main benefits.

1. Very cool intake air temps.
2. High octane characteristic to keep detonation under control.
3. Added fuel for dual stage boost (switch between 5 and 8 psi).

Since your motor is stock, you have high compression. Methanol keeps your combustion in check under high boost because of its cool charge and high octane characteristics. Also, with the intercooler alone, you can only run one level of boost (at least with stock pcm setup).

Of course there are negatives with the methanol system too, such as what if it fails, or having to refill it...but if set up correctly, it is very safe and effective.

MavrikTA

iTrader: (27)

Nice. This is the kind of information I need. When I did a search, all the info was too specific to application. The general concept and theories(cost vs. benefit analysis) is what Im needing. I actually think that one setting would be better. No one knows how to tune up here and I would be worried about having a dual setting tune. Seems like double the risk.

SSnakekiller

iTrader: (8)

No one knows how to tune there? How far are you from STS?

MavrikTA

iTrader: (27)

About 2hrs. The problem is, STS does not have a dyno. They sell "generic" tunes with a programer set up for the particular application. I just dont trust that beyond the base 5psi tune. There are too many additional variables when the boost goes up, I think.

Silver02Z28

iTrader: (2)

Alky works for me at 8psi. No need to use an FMIC.

smoke20

iTrader: (2)

i have been mulling this very decision myself, i like the cost of meth but if it fails your dead meat, and you have to keep adding meth, i got rid of nitrous because of the hassel, for everday driving i want the intercooler. its always there you dont have to retune your eng for it . so you can set up for 7-8 psi and run it all day.

MavrikTA

iTrader: (27)

Smoke20, that is exactly what I am thinking. 8PSI is not HUGE and I would love to just bypass the hassel and risk of Meth. But the way people talk, I get the impression that maybe it cant be done and that Meth is actually safer. For everyday driving and tuning purposes, I would think that the IC would be the best for guys like us.

SSnakekiller

iTrader: (8)

You're thinking correct in terms of less to deal with, but there is no retuning your engine with meth. You tune your engine for low boost (5psi) and that serves as your base tune. Then, when you use the meth, the meth supplies the extra fuel, so all the tuning is with the meth itself and not the pcm. You can tune the engine as well to make it very precise if you plan to run high boost all the time, but that will limit your use of 2 stages.

MavrikTA

iTrader: (27)

That makes sense. So basically, one could purchase the tune for a base setup(5psi) and be ok under low boost setting, but the additional "tuning" for 8PSI would be in finding out how much Meth to add to the increased air. Correct?

KySilverado

iTrader: (7)

My experience has been add as much meth as it will stand and and pull fueling for correct AFR.

TrakDay

iTrader: (7)

I am not turbod, but I am Procharged. I run an intercooler and spray methanol and was making 10.5psi with both on my previous setup. I am not a huge fan of running any form of FI without an intercooler. Even with methanol, I think the benefits of the IC are still worthwhile.

gametech

iTrader: (1)

Last week at the track, it was in the mid 90's. The IC brought the IAT's down to 125 through 4th gear. The meth injection in addition to the IC brought IAT's down to 75 by the end of the 1/4. I normally just run WW fluid, but this time I tried pure meth. I was shocked that it dropped IAT's 20 degrees below ambient temps. However, the reason I know what IAT's are without meth is because my pump didn't come on one of the runs. Luckily, I had my timing vs IAT table set to pull several degrees if it went that high, because in addition to temps going up, my A/F went up from 11.5 to 12.7 under boost. I figure the meth may cool better than the IC, but the IC doesn't have moving parts to fail.

SSnakekiller

iTrader: (8)

WW fluid is only partially meth, maybe 40%, most of the rest is water..
So it sounds like using pure meth dropped IAT's even more than meth/water combo...interesting. But using pure meth should make your AFR very rich...
You should meth tune the car with whatever mixture you plan on always running...
For example: meth tune it with 75/25 meth/h20 or 50/50 with the wideband
If you change that mixture in the future, it will change your AFR. So going from WW fluid to pure meth should have altered your AFR...

Why did your pump not come on on one of the runs? wtf?

smoke20

iTrader: (2)

just to demonstrate the diffence of IC - i have no IC my IAT is over 165 by the end of an 1/8 mile run, 5psi set up.

smoke20

iTrader: (2)

i ment to install meth you need to tune eng , i understand once it is tuned you dont need to any longer, but it is a cost most people dont associate with installin meth.

RW99

Gametech, which meth kit are you using? Any idea why it failed on one of the runs?

Setting up the IAT vs. timing table seems like a good answer to anyone worried about methanol supply failure. A nice, automatic safety check. How hard is that to do?

SSnakekiller

iTrader: (8)

You don't NEED to tune the engine. If it is already tuned for 5psi, you dont need to tune it for meth. If it is not already tuned for 5psi, then it should be.
Adding meth in no way requires tuning your engine for it unless you really want to or if you are ONLY running high boost and want to dial in your exact air/fuel ratio.

SSnakekiller

iTrader: (8)

Very easy to do...and actually a great idea. However, IAT's at low boost can reach 160's or even 180's if the system is very hot and if the outside temps are very hot. At low boost, it is usually okay for it to reach this temp. So if you are running 5psi without meth and 8psi with meth and you get IATs in the 160's on 5psi for example, you wouldnt want to detune that part of the timing table because you will need it for 5psi.

If you are running pure meth and single stage boost or supercharger, then this method is fine.