brownsugar

I have a 1999 SS camaro with a six speed. No mods to speak of except a high flow lid and skip shift bypass.


I'm thinking about forced induction (FI). I have been doing some research on the STS rear mount as well as ATI intercooled supercharger and Powerdyne superchargers. The price for a basic Powerdyne (no intercooling) system and an STS rear mount are about the same. The ATI (intercooled) is a few grand more. With that in mind, I have a few questions for those of you who have put FI on your LS1's.

1. Which is more reliable, STS turbo or Powerdyne/ATI superchargers as far as the engine holding together? I'm not going to the strip, but imagine some rolling start races from time to time.

2. The supercharger suppliers say that no tuning is needed for there systems. Is this true? I'm skeptical about adding boost without a tune of the fuel curve.

3. All three systems say that new injectors are not needed until you get up to around 5 or 6 psi. Any experience there?

4. The STS with methenol injection is capable of 500 RWHP supposedly. Anyone running thiws setup?

5. Any DYNO's on the Powerdyne, ATI Procharger, or STS with/without
Methenol?

I don't have a garage of my own, nor do I have unlimited funds. This FI system needs to be reliable and not cause any other issues if possible. I know the tranny is a little weak and the rear end as well. I'm not planning on snatching second too often so hopefully this will not be an issue. Anything else I've overlooked?

Any help in this decision making process is greatly appreciated.

TransAm6383

iTrader: (1)

First off..no powerdyne..count that out now..ive never once heard a good think about those and they are slow.
1.They are both low power(in a sense) and should be alright..both have there pros/cons
2. No tuning? BS..if you want your engine to fall apart then sure..but I wouldnt go with any type of FI without a tune..
3.Youll want at least 42lbs injectors..to be safe...and not lean out your engine.
4.Sure..but for how long? meth makes it much more reliable..and its going on my turbo setup..but with a forged motor.
5. No My friends 94 camaro put down 430rw on an ati P-1 with headers.

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

Who told you no tuning was necessary? Also go Procharger D1SC.

EPP

iTrader: (22)

http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...php?service=66

Some of the info above may help you out. Bob

52172

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like you don't want to spend too much money I would just go with the 4000 dollar sts and get it tuned with 42 pound injectors and you should be able to run up to 7 or 8 lbs of boost without the intercooler. You can always add on an intercooler when budget permits and up the boost. You should see 450 rwhp without the intercooler and about 7 lbs boost on a stock motor. If you have the money the ati disc kit is awesome and has lots of potential up to 800 rwhp with a different intercooler, but like you said it a couple thousand more. Depends on what your goals are and how much power you want. If you think you will be happy with 450 rwhp then go sts non intercooled, but like most people boost is addicting and chances are your gonna get used to the 450 and want more. You could always upgrade the turbo and buy an intercooler or you could go ati and not have to get an intercooler just change pulleys.

I like the power under the curve of a turbo vs centrifical supercharger there is a lot more torque sooner.

XpEdItIoUs

iTrader: (44)

Tuning should be on the top of your list after doing any kind of F/I.

99SS-T

iTrader: (5)

First thing is u need to decide exactly how much money u have to waste on teh setup. If ur limited to less then 5k then u should just get heads and a cam. U can easily make 450 with that combo. IF u are lookin to make more then that or u wanna have the ability to easily make more powerr in the future using the setup u start with then go FI. Both methods are great for power, IE super or turbo. There is always hidden costs though. Not sayin the people that sell the kits lie just that there is alot of things ull hasve to get to keep it all together. Any FI taht doesnt have a intercooler is gonna be ALOT tougher on ur engine then the same kit with one. The more u drive with either kinda FI the hotter the intake charge gets. Weither ur beatin on it or not.
I tried to keep it cheap in the beginnin. I didnt wanna believe thata i needed all that crap everyone was sayin. But to keep it all workin great u new atleast 42# injectors and a inline pump, spark plugs and wires. A good tune, which usually costs 500 bucks from most tuners, and driveline parts. The stock clutch wont hold long makin 450+ hp. The rear wont hold stock power for most people but others get lucky and it holds 500.
As 100% of the people here will tell ya FI is far from cheap. If u aint comitted or just dont have the funds then dont bother. Ull be constantly unhappy with how it runs. GL man.

John

silver01z06

just my opion of course but sts does not impress me. i have seen alot of cars with the kits not making power like they claimed and i have beat cars that make more power than me. my bolt on cam car beating cars with 50+ rwhp doesnt add up.

1 driver
2 lies about rwhp
3 kit sucks

could 1 or any of 3 togather but i have never been impressed with sts kits

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

You just started some ****...

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

The STS is a pice of **** after a certain point...

NOW, that's not to say there are NO fast rear-mount set-ups because that would be incorrect. There are plenty of LS1's pushing rear mounts into some high numbers and ET's.

99SS-T

iTrader: (5)

The STS kit works just fine. U spool a little slower with them since u gots all that pipe but they make the same power the rest of us make. Its a little harder to make ALOT of power with them as u need to get a BIG turbo movin and have that pesky 11ft pipe to fill up. But for 600 or less hp they are 90% as good as a regular turbo setup. GL man

John

02ws6blackbird

just go ATI pro charger D1sc and call it a day. i just got done with my set up , i have the D1sc 224 228 comp cam and kooks LTs 60lbs injectors. I laid down 628 motor and 534 rwph

gametech

iTrader: (1)

STS is a good entry level street system that can be upgraded. ATI is a great 1/4 mile performer that can be upgraded. The best for street or strip is a front mount turbo, but that either gets very expensive, or compromises daily driveability. Powerdyne is crap. Even a stock motor with no FI can benefit from a tune. If you need more details use the search button.

White.Lightning

iTrader: (53)

This is what I just posted in some other guys thread...

This has come up a lot in the past year, this type of question. Besides ENORMOUS amounts of research, I would say two things...

1. Figure out the goal/purpose of the car
2. Set a budget.....to get a proper setup done you are talking $15k +

There are countless ways to achieve power, some are cheaper, some easier. It all comes down to what you want to do with the car and how much you are willing to spend. You want to build the car around a goal.

"Speed is addicting, how much are you willing to spend?"

Good luck
Andy

longrange4u

iTrader: (2)

What he said.... get your goals in mind and build to that.

As for: I'll be your huckelberry..... I just have a "kit sucks" and my share of "lies about rwhp" STS!

Built LT1

iTrader: (3)

I have to agree with you on some points. I have been in an STS car and it was NOT impressive. The sluggish acceleration and turbo lag seems to contradict STS' technological claim that thier turbos have been "sized" differently to match front mount response and power. The following statement on the STS website provides in pertinant as follows:

With the turbo so far back, don't you get a lot of turbo lag?
No, our turbochargers are sized to operate at this remote location. Just like any turbocharger, once the turbo is up to temperature and in the rpm range for which it was designed to operate. The boost comes on hard and fast. All of our systems will produce full boost below 3000 rpm.
If you were to take a conventional turbo and place it at the rear, you would have lots of lag and consequently, our turbo wouldn't work properly if mounted up front. Source: http://www.ststurbo.com/f_a_q

I do not know if the above statement is accurate about sizing, I do however get feedback from STS owners that the power and throttle response sucks. The overwhelming opinion of members on this board experience better all around performance with a front mount turbo. Because this thread did not offer the front mount possibility as an option, I will suggest the Procharger. I have seen too many people run really well to consider the other options;especially Powerdyne.

longrange4u

iTrader: (2)

Hmmmm.... You would be good at political spin. I like how you take the opinion of a few and make it seem as the overall opinion.

Ask this guy about lag with his rearmount (your point is about rearmounts) https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/562370-custom-rear-mounted-turbo-hits-track.html

As for the power sucking... I am not sure what your talking about. My 607 RWHP isnt a bad showing for power... thats with the basic STS 67 kit with a FMIC on a stock block. You do actually speak one point that I will concur with... the spool is an issue. If you simply throw it all on and make no provisions by wrapping your exhaust to keep in the heat, you will not see full spool until 3200RPMs or so.

Now I dont care for STS cause they are only interested in throwing together a reliable low priced mid powered kit. They have no interest in development of High HP setups nor are they interested in competition at the NHRA or other professional levels.... I think they have done the first. I dont like them as they are more interested in your money then they are in the sport... but thats just my stupid opinion. It dosent change that a STS is capable of anything that a basic supercharger setup is.. or more for the same money or less.

Now lastly... just a suggestion. Dont slam a statement made by a sponsor if you dont understand what it is they are saying. Nobody that knows anything claims that rearmounts are just as good as a front mount (in performance... I like my AC so +1 for rearmounts)... and the sizing issue discussed is the AR size that increased the air velocity in an attempt to make up for the loss in velocity due to heat loss and air density. The trade off is reduced overall capability of the turbo (top end).

Nate_Taufer

iTrader: (1)

Many people will tell you to go turbo for more average power. This is a misnomer. If you want dyno sheets go turbo. A centrifugal will typically be more consistent and will e.t. whereas a turbo will make ridiculous trap speeds and always have problems building boost unless you've got a chassis car with a brake.

Turbo's have their purpose...and that's for diesel trucks. But for a street car the D1SC would be a better setup for you. Let the flame wars begine

Nate

DJ's Z

iTrader: (10)

I agree and thats why I went with a ProCharger set up rather than a Turbo...Hey, an F1 works just fine too...

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

Plus 100 octane gas.