new to the s/c world and need help
08-30-2006, 06:38 AM
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new to the s/c world and need help hi guys i just bought a 2000 Z28 and it has a p1sc on it!!!! i am very new to the FI world. i have a few ????. like how can i get the most power out of it and still be an every day driver? were to get a FMIC what kind of springs to get, all kinds of stuff. Any thing and every thing i want to know. im in iraq right know and will be for the next year. so any info at all will help. the goal when i get back is about 550-600 rwhp. im working on getting a froged 346, and 6.0 heads other then that im in need of info. Right now the car is stock ex. for 42lbs. injecters and wiber(spelling) fule pump. and the budget is about $5000 so let me know what you guys think. Thanks for any info.
PS how do i change my name on here??
PS how do i change my name on here??
08-31-2006, 04:38 AM
#2
Here is a list I compiled together for building an F Body into a very quick car
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Here is a list of items that I recently put together for building up the chassis prior to adding the horsepower. People are always asking the question of whether to go with a head and cam package, or go with a supercharger or turbocharger. There is no way you are to match the power of an ATI ProCharger with a head and cam package unless you use a pretty radical camshaft. Nitrous oxide could be used instead of going the forced induction route, with very good results at a fraction of the cost. A cold air kit would be required if you elect to use nitrous oxide instead of going the forced induction (ATI ProCharger) route. The ATI ProChargers come with a K&N cone filter. With forced induction, such as the ATI ProCharger, the power is always going to be there when you want it, with no nitrous bottles to constantly refill. A turbocharger could be used instead of an ATI ProCharger, but I am not convinced that the turbo kits currently out on the market will stand the test of time. TurboChargers go through extreme heat cycles, which can fracture the turbo housing mounts.
With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.
Everyone has their opinions on what is the best package, and here is mine.
1. Subframe Connectors - Absolutely necessary to keep your F Body from twisting and stretching. I have seen too many of these cars lose their door to fender gaps from having gone too long without subframe connectors. Subframe connectors will make the car handle better, you'll get fewer squeaks and the car will get better traction.
2. Torque Arm - BMR, Global West and Spohn all make torque arms that relocate the front mount off of the transmission by relocating the front mount back behind the transmission. The relocation of the front mount relieves the stress from the tailshaft of the transmission that the torque arm places on it, as a result of trying to contain the rear-end and it's rotational stresses. The stock torque arm is a stamped piece of sheetmetal that has broken apart for many people, and it sometimes takes out the driveshaft with it when it goes. By relocating the front mount of the torque arm behind the transmission, the geometry of the rear suspension becomes much better and really aids in hooking up the rear suspension. While replacing the torque arm, check the transmission mount, as the stock torque arm places a huge load on the mount, and the mount breaks quite often when using the factory torque arm. The adjustability of these aftermarket torque arms allows the user to adjust the pinion angle of the rear suspension which aids in finding traction.
3. Moser 12 bolt or 9 inch - Sooner or later the weak 7.5" Chevy S-10 derived 10 bolt is going to break. I wouldn't waste any money into attempting to build up the 10 bolt, it just doesn't work. There isn't one strong point to the stocker. For those of you with a six speed transmission, the 10 bolt has broken on many M6 cars with stock power. Expect the worse to happen... 3:73 gears in the Moser rear-end is a good compromise, especially when adding a lot of power to the engine. I prefer the Moser 9 inch as the way Moser has the torque arm bolted to the rear-end is much better. The Moser 12 bolt uses four short bolts to fasten the torque arm. These bolts have to be loc-tited, and they still must be checked frequently to make sure they stay tight. The Moser 9 inch uses the OEM way on using two long bolts to fasten the torque arm, and they stay tight.
4. Driveshaft - The stock GM driveshaft have broken for many enthusiast, both the steel and the 3.0" aluminum GM driveshafts are fairly weak. I recommend an aftermarket 3.5" aluminum driveshaft with a 1350 Yoke with a 1350 U Joint. Combined with the Moser 12 bolt or 9 inch with their supplied 1350 yoke, you will have a strong drivetrain. I sell the PST 3.5" aluminum driveshaft, which has a 1200hp rating. I have not seen one break.
5. Clutch and pressure plate - I recommend the Spec Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate, or the newer Spec Stage 3+. Expect some chatter for the first 500 miles, then it will be pretty smooth. I would also add the '01-'02 slave cylinder for the older models, and do the "drill mod" to the master cylinder. Do a search for the drill mod, and you will see what it entails.
At this point I believe the suspension is capable off supporting a lot of horsepower, and you can go straight to item 14.
For those of you who are dragstrip bound, I would also add a few additional items.
6. Adjustable lower control arms - The aftermarket lower control arms are much stouter, and will not flex like the factory lower control arms. Going with adjustable ones will allow the user to center the rear end in the wheelwell. The stock rear end position from the factory tends to be .5" towards the rear of the car. You really won't notice it until larger diameter tires are installed.
7. Lower control arm relocation brackets - Lower control arm relocation brackets are meant to be used when the car has been lowered, which alters the angle of the lower control arms. We have found that the relocation brackets also help in getting traction in non lowered cars. We use the weld on style that BMR offers.
8. Panhard bar - The factory pan hard bar is pretty flimsy and additional traction can be found by replacing the factory pan hard bar with a heavier duty aftermarket bar. The rear in these cars tends to sit closer to the right side, and by purchasing an adjustable pan hard bar, the rear-end can be centered in the body.
9. Strut Tower Brace - Eliminate flexing in the front end by adding an aftermarket strut tower brace. You will also notice that the car will handle better with a strut tower brace.
10. Battery box relocation - By relocating the battery to the trunk, you will remove a lot of weight off the front of the car and place the weight behind the rear-end, where it will aid in traction. The car will also be able to handle better with the weight relocation.
11. Rear coil spring air bags - By experimenting with adding more air to the right air bag than to the left one, better off the line traction can be found.
12. Adjustable shocks and front coil over springs - We use the Hal QA1 12 way adjustable shocks on our cars. It is easy to adjust these shocks for street use, and then readjust them for strip use by simply rotating the 12 way adjustable dial. The Hal QA1 front coil over springs allows the front end height to easily be adjusted.
13. K member - By replacing the front K member and upper and lower control arms with light weight aftermarket tubular ones, a lot of weight is removed from the front suspension. Since front end weight is removed, better off the line traction and better handling will occur. We have had good success with the BMR parts, and combined with the Hal QA1 shocks and coil over front springs, gives the car a much better chance of getting traction on the starting line.
14. Headers and cat back exhaust - Everyone has their favorites, but we have grown very fond of Hooker and Kooks headers, and the Hooker and Magnaflow Cat Back exhaust systems.
Hooker ceramic coated headers and the Kook's stainless steel headers fit very well, with excellent ground clearance. The ceramic coatings go a long way towards keeping the exhaust temps in the pipes, keeping the engine bay cooler and improving internal exhaust scavenging. These two brands of headers will give you 2.5" more in ground clearance compared to SLP headers. I recommend the Kooks headers for max effort cars. They cost more, but they will produce more horsepower.
The Hooker and Magnaflow cat back exhaust systems give these cars a good muscular sound that will not drown out your stereo while driving down the road. The exhaust tubing is larger than the stock tubing and is mandrel bent, for better exhaust flow.
For those of you who want it loud. If you are looking for an exhaust system that will annoy everyone around you, the two above exhaust systems are not for you. The SLP "Loud Mouth" cat back is a good system for those of you who want to be noticed. When we have one of these cars on my dyno with a loud mouth exhaust system, everyone around our area can hear the car!
15. ATI ProCharger D-1SC eight rib supercharger - Simply the best and easiest way to get 450 to 500 rwhp out of your car in my opinion, when combined with headers and a good cat back exhaust system. The car will still see great part throttle gas mileage, overall driveability will still be excellent, and the power is always there when you want it. At 8 pounds of boost, the car will be very dependable, and with the twin high flow air to air intercoolers, unleaded premium is all you need to use. I recommend the ATI ProCharger D-1SC "tuner" kit, as the D-1SC can handle future mods much better than the P-1SC. You will need 42 lb or 60 lb fuel injectors, a 255 litre HP in tank fuel pump, and chassis dyno tuning with the "tuner" kit.
Hopefully this list will help you in your quest for having a quick car! Bob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a list of items that I recently put together for building up the chassis prior to adding the horsepower. People are always asking the question of whether to go with a head and cam package, or go with a supercharger or turbocharger. There is no way you are to match the power of an ATI ProCharger with a head and cam package unless you use a pretty radical camshaft. Nitrous oxide could be used instead of going the forced induction route, with very good results at a fraction of the cost. A cold air kit would be required if you elect to use nitrous oxide instead of going the forced induction (ATI ProCharger) route. The ATI ProChargers come with a K&N cone filter. With forced induction, such as the ATI ProCharger, the power is always going to be there when you want it, with no nitrous bottles to constantly refill. A turbocharger could be used instead of an ATI ProCharger, but I am not convinced that the turbo kits currently out on the market will stand the test of time. TurboChargers go through extreme heat cycles, which can fracture the turbo housing mounts.
With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.
Everyone has their opinions on what is the best package, and here is mine.
1. Subframe Connectors - Absolutely necessary to keep your F Body from twisting and stretching. I have seen too many of these cars lose their door to fender gaps from having gone too long without subframe connectors. Subframe connectors will make the car handle better, you'll get fewer squeaks and the car will get better traction.
2. Torque Arm - BMR, Global West and Spohn all make torque arms that relocate the front mount off of the transmission by relocating the front mount back behind the transmission. The relocation of the front mount relieves the stress from the tailshaft of the transmission that the torque arm places on it, as a result of trying to contain the rear-end and it's rotational stresses. The stock torque arm is a stamped piece of sheetmetal that has broken apart for many people, and it sometimes takes out the driveshaft with it when it goes. By relocating the front mount of the torque arm behind the transmission, the geometry of the rear suspension becomes much better and really aids in hooking up the rear suspension. While replacing the torque arm, check the transmission mount, as the stock torque arm places a huge load on the mount, and the mount breaks quite often when using the factory torque arm. The adjustability of these aftermarket torque arms allows the user to adjust the pinion angle of the rear suspension which aids in finding traction.
3. Moser 12 bolt or 9 inch - Sooner or later the weak 7.5" Chevy S-10 derived 10 bolt is going to break. I wouldn't waste any money into attempting to build up the 10 bolt, it just doesn't work. There isn't one strong point to the stocker. For those of you with a six speed transmission, the 10 bolt has broken on many M6 cars with stock power. Expect the worse to happen... 3:73 gears in the Moser rear-end is a good compromise, especially when adding a lot of power to the engine. I prefer the Moser 9 inch as the way Moser has the torque arm bolted to the rear-end is much better. The Moser 12 bolt uses four short bolts to fasten the torque arm. These bolts have to be loc-tited, and they still must be checked frequently to make sure they stay tight. The Moser 9 inch uses the OEM way on using two long bolts to fasten the torque arm, and they stay tight.
4. Driveshaft - The stock GM driveshaft have broken for many enthusiast, both the steel and the 3.0" aluminum GM driveshafts are fairly weak. I recommend an aftermarket 3.5" aluminum driveshaft with a 1350 Yoke with a 1350 U Joint. Combined with the Moser 12 bolt or 9 inch with their supplied 1350 yoke, you will have a strong drivetrain. I sell the PST 3.5" aluminum driveshaft, which has a 1200hp rating. I have not seen one break.
5. Clutch and pressure plate - I recommend the Spec Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate, or the newer Spec Stage 3+. Expect some chatter for the first 500 miles, then it will be pretty smooth. I would also add the '01-'02 slave cylinder for the older models, and do the "drill mod" to the master cylinder. Do a search for the drill mod, and you will see what it entails.
At this point I believe the suspension is capable off supporting a lot of horsepower, and you can go straight to item 14.
For those of you who are dragstrip bound, I would also add a few additional items.
6. Adjustable lower control arms - The aftermarket lower control arms are much stouter, and will not flex like the factory lower control arms. Going with adjustable ones will allow the user to center the rear end in the wheelwell. The stock rear end position from the factory tends to be .5" towards the rear of the car. You really won't notice it until larger diameter tires are installed.
7. Lower control arm relocation brackets - Lower control arm relocation brackets are meant to be used when the car has been lowered, which alters the angle of the lower control arms. We have found that the relocation brackets also help in getting traction in non lowered cars. We use the weld on style that BMR offers.
8. Panhard bar - The factory pan hard bar is pretty flimsy and additional traction can be found by replacing the factory pan hard bar with a heavier duty aftermarket bar. The rear in these cars tends to sit closer to the right side, and by purchasing an adjustable pan hard bar, the rear-end can be centered in the body.
9. Strut Tower Brace - Eliminate flexing in the front end by adding an aftermarket strut tower brace. You will also notice that the car will handle better with a strut tower brace.
10. Battery box relocation - By relocating the battery to the trunk, you will remove a lot of weight off the front of the car and place the weight behind the rear-end, where it will aid in traction. The car will also be able to handle better with the weight relocation.
11. Rear coil spring air bags - By experimenting with adding more air to the right air bag than to the left one, better off the line traction can be found.
12. Adjustable shocks and front coil over springs - We use the Hal QA1 12 way adjustable shocks on our cars. It is easy to adjust these shocks for street use, and then readjust them for strip use by simply rotating the 12 way adjustable dial. The Hal QA1 front coil over springs allows the front end height to easily be adjusted.
13. K member - By replacing the front K member and upper and lower control arms with light weight aftermarket tubular ones, a lot of weight is removed from the front suspension. Since front end weight is removed, better off the line traction and better handling will occur. We have had good success with the BMR parts, and combined with the Hal QA1 shocks and coil over front springs, gives the car a much better chance of getting traction on the starting line.
14. Headers and cat back exhaust - Everyone has their favorites, but we have grown very fond of Hooker and Kooks headers, and the Hooker and Magnaflow Cat Back exhaust systems.
Hooker ceramic coated headers and the Kook's stainless steel headers fit very well, with excellent ground clearance. The ceramic coatings go a long way towards keeping the exhaust temps in the pipes, keeping the engine bay cooler and improving internal exhaust scavenging. These two brands of headers will give you 2.5" more in ground clearance compared to SLP headers. I recommend the Kooks headers for max effort cars. They cost more, but they will produce more horsepower.
The Hooker and Magnaflow cat back exhaust systems give these cars a good muscular sound that will not drown out your stereo while driving down the road. The exhaust tubing is larger than the stock tubing and is mandrel bent, for better exhaust flow.
For those of you who want it loud. If you are looking for an exhaust system that will annoy everyone around you, the two above exhaust systems are not for you. The SLP "Loud Mouth" cat back is a good system for those of you who want to be noticed. When we have one of these cars on my dyno with a loud mouth exhaust system, everyone around our area can hear the car!
15. ATI ProCharger D-1SC eight rib supercharger - Simply the best and easiest way to get 450 to 500 rwhp out of your car in my opinion, when combined with headers and a good cat back exhaust system. The car will still see great part throttle gas mileage, overall driveability will still be excellent, and the power is always there when you want it. At 8 pounds of boost, the car will be very dependable, and with the twin high flow air to air intercoolers, unleaded premium is all you need to use. I recommend the ATI ProCharger D-1SC "tuner" kit, as the D-1SC can handle future mods much better than the P-1SC. You will need 42 lb or 60 lb fuel injectors, a 255 litre HP in tank fuel pump, and chassis dyno tuning with the "tuner" kit.
Hopefully this list will help you in your quest for having a quick car! Bob
08-31-2006, 09:48 AM
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great!!!!!!!! thank you so much for all that info what a big help one thing if my car came with the p-1sc do you think i should go for the upgrade or go with a bigger pully??? and i want to do a froged motor what kind of cam do you think will be the best and still give me that "cammed car" sound
09-01-2006, 04:35 AM
#4
I would upgrade the P-1SC into a D-1SC, and add a 3.40" blower pulley to it, provided you update the fuel system to handle the power increase. Check out the Fuel Systems that Nasty Performance, a sponsor on here, offers for sale.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=40 C5 Corvette 346 ci with forged internals and a D-1SC.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=27 Trans-Am 346 ci with forged internals and a D-1SC, with our front mount intercooler.
Idle clips of our blower cam on an STS equipped Camaro SS.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/movies/sts3.mpg
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/movies/sts1.mpg
Our blower cam.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=679
Hopefully this helps. Bob
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=40 C5 Corvette 346 ci with forged internals and a D-1SC.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=27 Trans-Am 346 ci with forged internals and a D-1SC, with our front mount intercooler.
Idle clips of our blower cam on an STS equipped Camaro SS.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/movies/sts3.mpg
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/movies/sts1.mpg
Our blower cam.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=679
Hopefully this helps. Bob
09-01-2006, 01:16 PM
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WOW I LOVE THAT CAM!!!!! Will i see good gains with it. how much will it cost to do the D1-SC upgrade?? the big thing will be shipping, when i get back from Iraq i will be in Hawaii, so thats going to hurt. do you think i will see 500plus rwhp if i do the froged 348 with that cam and a bigger pully on my P1-SC till i can get the money for the upgrade, and how much is that FMIC??!!! that things looks bad ***, and it gets rid of the big box that came with the Procharger.(i hate that thing it just plain nasty looking) Wow Bob you are a great help that you for takeing the time to help me so much, when i get back ill know how to but all my parts from.
thanks Ricky
thanks Ricky
09-02-2006, 04:33 AM
#6
Originally Posted by rickys93z
WOW I LOVE THAT CAM!!!!! Will i see good gains with it. how much will it cost to do the D1-SC upgrade?? the big thing will be shipping, when i get back from Iraq i will be in Hawaii, so thats going to hurt. do you think i will see 500plus rwhp if i do the froged 348 with that cam and a bigger pully on my P1-SC till i can get the money for the upgrade, and how much is that FMIC??!!! that things looks bad ***, and it gets rid of the big box that came with the Procharger.(i hate that thing it just plain nasty looking) Wow Bob you are a great help that you for takeing the time to help me so much, when i get back ill know how to but all my parts from.
thanks Ricky
thanks Ricky
The upgrade cost is $1,200.00, to send your P-1SC in to have it made into a D-1SC.
The 6 rib to 8 rib upgrade is roughly $560.00, plus you need a $450.00 harmonic balancer to bolt the eight rib crank pulley to, plus a $120.00 crank pinning kit.
With a forged bottom end, plus adding our blower camshaft and several more pounds of boost by going to a smaller pulley on the supercharger head unit, you certainly would be at 500 plus rwhp. You might get 550 rwhp out of the P-1SC.
Our front mount intercooler kit is $850.00. IT includes the intercooler, mandrel bent tubing and the silicone hoses.
Thanks Ricky. Bob