Hot Honing Gen III Blocks
10-03-2006, 10:07 AM
#1
Hot Honing Gen III Blocks I have a few questions about hot honing , does anyone do it to gen III blocks , who and how much , and does anyone have any data or experience with the process specifically on gen III aluminum blocks . I'm aware of the benefits of hot honing and feel it would be very beneficial to the alloy blocks as they move quite a bit from room temp to operating temp .
10-03-2006, 12:31 PM
#3
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
From what I have seen even engine shops that build Gen III motors for professional competition don't even hot hone so why do you need it?
Bret
Bret
has anyone measured how much a LS1/LS2 block moves around?
10-03-2006, 01:17 PM
#4
I'm asking to see if people are doing it . I didn't say that I need it . Most of the shops doing builds of that nature don't say much about what they're doing . Bret , most are aware the alloy blocks grow when they're @ operating temp , is this growth uniform ? I asked these questions since I haven't seen much about it pertaining gen III specifically .
10-03-2006, 01:21 PM
#5
Aluminum blocks are the worst in terms of sealing, and if it helped anywhere it would be here. The LS platform doesn't seem to be too bad in this reguard though. As for the uniformity of growth, got me almost nothing does perfectly but if it's outside of a tolerance then yes it would be a problem.
Bret
Bret
10-03-2006, 02:41 PM
#6
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We used to do it all the time to all types of blocks including LS blocks. The bores grow .002 to .003" typically on aluminum blocks when they're brought up to temperature and I believe they stayed relatively round though I wasn't running the machine. Nobody asks for hot honing any more though. I think the extra time and expense it requires outweighs whatever benefit it gives(if any).
Al
Al
10-03-2006, 05:50 PM
#7
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there was an article awhile back in Engine Masters about hot honing.the people they interviewed definately thought it was worth it.one of the guys interviewed said it was worth a 1 to 2 % percent power increase,if memory serves me right.plus it was said the rings would last longer.i think(not sure) the Nextel Cuppers do this.but the well is pretty deep money wise,for the big teams anyway.
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10-03-2006, 08:18 PM
#8
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We have had a few calls at our shop about doing the hot honing but a few years ago I was in NC to check out a block being hot honed and do to the 180 degree block and the hot hoing oli the smell was unbearable and if I was going to do that proceedure I have to have some serios ventilation installed in the shop.
I build and maintain to SBC blower engines with 8-71 blowers on both one is a Dart raised cam tunnel block with a 9.325 deck and the other is Brodix block raised cam tunnel with a 9.500 deck and we have leaked them down and have seen under 5% and when these are diassembled there are no signs of blowby under the top rings and these are honed cold.
We also build a lot of circle track engines in the N/E and we see less then 2% leak down on those engines.
And as I have posted before with the cost of hot honing and what we would have to charge to do a block I think the customer would feel it more in his wallet then in the seat of his pants.
If I thought it was worth the money I would have that set up in a minute.
I build and maintain to SBC blower engines with 8-71 blowers on both one is a Dart raised cam tunnel block with a 9.325 deck and the other is Brodix block raised cam tunnel with a 9.500 deck and we have leaked them down and have seen under 5% and when these are diassembled there are no signs of blowby under the top rings and these are honed cold.
We also build a lot of circle track engines in the N/E and we see less then 2% leak down on those engines.
And as I have posted before with the cost of hot honing and what we would have to charge to do a block I think the customer would feel it more in his wallet then in the seat of his pants.
If I thought it was worth the money I would have that set up in a minute.
10-04-2006, 01:24 PM
#9
Thanks for the responses , they're exactly what I was looking for . I was just inquiring if anyone was doing it to LS blocks . I saw an article where an MID block made excellent torque and some of the best ring sealing Westech had seen and was looking for a less expensive route . Alloy blocks do suck when it comes to sealing as tolereances move alot but less weight is nice . LSM's lightened iron blocks look nice but that using a better casting . LSM , have you looked @ the new GMPP iron block for LS applications , any estimation of potential weight savings ?
10-04-2006, 02:32 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS N/E
We have had a few calls at our shop about doing the hot honing but a few years ago I was in NC to check out a block being hot honed and do to the 180 degree block and the hot hoing oli the smell was unbearable and if I was going to do that proceedure I have to have some serios ventilation installed in the shop.
I build and maintain to SBC blower engines with 8-71 blowers on both one is a Dart raised cam tunnel block with a 9.325 deck and the other is Brodix block raised cam tunnel with a 9.500 deck and we have leaked them down and have seen under 5% and when these are diassembled there are no signs of blowby under the top rings and these are honed cold.
We also build a lot of circle track engines in the N/E and we see less then 2% leak down on those engines.
And as I have posted before with the cost of hot honing and what we would have to charge to do a block I think the customer would feel it more in his wallet then in the seat of his pants.
If I thought it was worth the money I would have that set up in a minute.
I build and maintain to SBC blower engines with 8-71 blowers on both one is a Dart raised cam tunnel block with a 9.325 deck and the other is Brodix block raised cam tunnel with a 9.500 deck and we have leaked them down and have seen under 5% and when these are diassembled there are no signs of blowby under the top rings and these are honed cold.
We also build a lot of circle track engines in the N/E and we see less then 2% leak down on those engines.
And as I have posted before with the cost of hot honing and what we would have to charge to do a block I think the customer would feel it more in his wallet then in the seat of his pants.
If I thought it was worth the money I would have that set up in a minute.
See you at PRI again, C?
10-04-2006, 03:57 PM
#13
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This was a popular thing years ago...but now seems to fall in the same category as radius intake seats.
If anyone is looking for CV616 w/ hot kits, I know of a few for sale.
Dennis
If anyone is looking for CV616 w/ hot kits, I know of a few for sale.
Dennis
10-10-2006, 09:57 PM
#15
Originally Posted by triumphman
Hot fluid is circulated through the block while honing, just like it would if the engine was in the car.
Now, thermal expansion is uniform right?
But, expansion from the cylinder head bolts is not uniform right? That's all that matters when you rebuild, correct?
So couldn't I just look up approx how much that alloy of AL expands under heat and increase the ID of the bore to slightly under the bore+expansion amount?
Just be able to just get away with adding a couple more thousands and using a honing plate, right?
10-11-2006, 06:12 PM
#17
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The belief is that since the flow and distribution of coolant is not uniform, the expansion will not be either. Of course, the heat input to a running engine is even more non-uniform, and enters the block from the combustion chamber/cylinder head, rings, piston skirts, etc., not from the coolant.... 
10-11-2006, 07:19 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by CTSmechanic
The last race team I worked for we hot honed all of our blocks The smell isnt that bad the sound of the Diamond stones or brushes was way worse.That shop will hot hone your block for you let me know if your intrested... its not cheap though
10-12-2006, 05:07 PM
#20
Originally Posted by MadBill
The belief is that since the flow and distribution of coolant is not uniform, the expansion will not be either. Of course, the heat input to a running engine is even more non-uniform, and enters the block from the combustion chamber/cylinder head, rings, piston skirts, etc., not from the coolant....
I am wondering about that myself. In my eyes, the block is either going to be correct at ambient temp or operating temp. I am sure it's not a big deal on a stock motor, but, interesting conversation.
I am sure if everything was correct.... All toleranaces unbelievely close you could have one really long lasting motor or at least in theory. Wonder how many miles is the feasible limit within technologies closest possible tolerances!!