Gauge

iTrader: (3)

Hey everyone,

My engine is in need of a rebuild, and I'm going to make an attempt at it myself. I have a ton of questions, but here are the ones that are primary in my mind so far...

1) What all am I going to need in terms of parts? I'm thinking main bearings, rod bearings, cam bearings, rings, front/rear main seals, ARP rod bolts... Is there anything else that shouldn't be reused?
2) Can the engine be pulled out the top with the transmission attached?
3) If the answer to #2 is yes, then how do you remove the hydraulic line for the clutch from the tranny? I don't see any way to disconnect it.
4) Will I need any special tools other than micrometers?


Thanks in advance everyone. This is going to be a real adventure for me.

SLO98Z

iTrader: (10)

Hey, man. We're in the same boat. I suggest ordering the shop manuals from Helm if you haven't already. I'm ordering mine today. Looks like I'll be stealing my wife's Accord and putting her *** on a bus! LOL

Good luck

JstALs1

iTrader: (5)

When i did mine i just dropped the K member and the rear cross member and it all came out the bottom. Took all of about 2 hours. Just have to diconnect the the wire harness from inside the car. Undo hoses, front brake lines, drive shaft, torque arm, and y pipe. It pretty easy the hard part was getting it lined back up to go backin the car. It helps it you put the drive train on somehting that roles.

Gauge

iTrader: (3)

I appreciate the responses, guys. I'm not sure that I can drop the motor because I doubt my jack stands will go up high enough to get it out from under the car. That's why I'm looking to pull it through the top.

Also, I have a book on the way even though it's not the Helm's book. It's just a book about rebuilding SBCs. Hopefully it'll be enough to get the job done. If not, there's always ls1tech!

Anyway, I'm still hoping someone can answer these for me...

yak

iTrader: (15)

i still think you want the helms book of gm service manual. you need to know all your bearing tollerances and I doubt the average ls1tech member knows those.

JstALs1

iTrader: (5)

you will need a torque sheet for all the bottom end components. Also you will need a angle meter for the main caps and i believe the rod caps. You will have to torque them to a certain spec and use the angle meter to go the rest of the way. You will also have to get a different book for the rebuild because the LS1 is nothing like the traditional small block there is more involved.

Gauge

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like I'm in for a treat. Thanks for the responses.

Still no answers to my 4 questions?

NBMgreg

iTrader: (7)

i've never seen anybody take the motor out through the top...

a guy on here, Mr.Luos, has a short video of his motor swap, and it shows him taking it out through the bottom as well.

Cop Car

iTrader: (14)

why is it that you think it needs rebuilt?

1) block honed, crank polished, new bearings, katech rod bolts, stock GM main bolts, new piston rings, new lifters, all GM
2) take it out the bottom, its easy
3) n/a
4) not really, you need a torque degree gauge because the bolts are torqued down to a spec and then degreed

chris93266

iTrader: (5)

get some 4"x4" blocks of wood and stick the jackstands on those. i haven't pulled an ls1 but if you need more clearance, take the back tires off and sit the rear on some wood blocks. just be sure you can get the car back up, and don't scrape the body on the ground.

bichin95redta

You will not need to add angle to any of your fasteners if you use aftermarket (ARP, etc.) fasteners. Angle applies only to the OEM TTY fasteners.

If anyone tells you that you can re-use the oil pan, and front & rear cover gaskets, don't listen to them. These are compression carrier gaskets, and, like TTY fasteners, are one-time-use-only components. The OEM oil pan gasket is installed at the factory using rivets to aid in gasket/pan alignment during engine assembly. These will need to be removed. New oil pan gaskets do not come with rivets, but you don't need them anyway, so don't worry.

The LS1 OEM oil pump does not have the best of reputations, especially in hi-performance applications. There is a decent selection of hi-volume, ported, aftermarket oil pumps out there. I wouldn't cheap out on the oil pump. I would also replace the OEM timing chain. I used an LS2 chain. You'll want to go with hardened, chromemoly aftermarket pushrods, too. And, as long as you have the engine outta the car, and you have the cash, you may want to think about an intake. Yeah, they're easy enough to install in the car, but with the engine outta the car, it's a piece of cake. While I had my engine out, I replaced my header bolts with studs. I also went with an ATI 10% underdrive harmonic balancer. You don't have to do any of this extra stuff, but if you have the money, and you do not plan on dropping the engine again, you might as well go for replacing stuff while it's still easy to get at.

The rear cover seal is pretty stout, and unless it's leaking/damaged, you shouldn't need to replace it. If you do, I'd take it to an engine building shop that has experience rebuilding LSX-series engines, or, you can buy the seal installation tool from GM. The seal installation tool doubles as a rear cover installation alignment tool.

The hydraulic clutch line can be disconnected by using a curved pick. Use the pick to push in on the disconnect's Teflon release sleeve, while pulling the hydraulic line/male connector off. During reassembly, it simply pushes back into place, although they can sometimes require some ooomph before you hear that satisfying "click".

You will need a special tool to disconnect the fuel line. They're plastic, and inexpensive. I bought a whole set of 'em (for different makes/models of cars) at Sears.

When reassembling the bottom end, the front & rear covers go on 1st, with partially tightened bolts. Then install the harmonic balancer on the front cover to center it around the crank. With the front & rear engine covers installed hand-tight, they will "locate" on their seals. The front & rear covers then have to be checked for location. Both the front & rear cover oil pan flange must be within .020" of the block oil pan flange on both sides. Once this is verified, torque the front & rear covers to 18 ft-lbs, using a radial torque sequence, starting from the inner bolts. Sealer then has to be applied to all four corners where the covers, block, and oil pan mate.

Next, install the oil pan. Torque the M6 bolts that thread into the front & rear covers to 89 in-lbs. The 12 M8 oil pan bolts get torqued to 18 ft-lbs, using a radial pattern. Final torque the M6 bolts to 106 in-lbs.

If you want to make this somewhat easier, and have the money, GM sells an alignment tool that bolts on, and makes front/rear cover & oil pan alignment a snap.

I'm lucky enough to have a 2-post lift in my shop. I dropped the engine and tranny out the bottom....well, actually, you LIFT the body off the engine cradle. I built a wooden cart out of 2" X 6"s and casters. The engine is supported by the engine cradle, while the tranny rests on the cart. Total time to disconnect everything under the hood, remove the y-pipe/driveshaft, disconnect the torque arm from the tranny, release the front sway bar, unbolt the shock-tower/tranny cross-member/engine cradle bolts, remove shifter, etc., and lift the car, leaving the engine/tranny free to wheel away on the cart: 4 hours.

I've never touched a rotating assembly (except to tear down), so i can't give you any advice there. If you are getting a GOOD manual, follow the instructions to the letter. If you get stuck, STOP. Ask someone who has experience for help/advice. Believe it or not, I've walked right into the Pontiac dealership around the corner from my house several times, and asked a few of the techs for advice. They were very nice to me, and freely shared their knowledge.

Best of luck to you....hope everything goes smoothly.

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iTrader: (3)

See this post for details. The cam bearings appear to be hosed.

Thanks so much for that great response, bichin95redta. A lot of that is extremely helpful to me.

Grimes

iTrader: (3)

Was there a reason for the damage? did your oil pump go out? there was no explanation in the link you gave. Just don't want to see the same thing happen to you again

Cop Car

iTrader: (14)

i had pretty much the same delima.. i ended up taking it appart, having the crank polished, block cleaned and honed, katech rod bolts, new bearings and new GM piston rings in it. i of couse did the normal LS2 chain, ported LS6 pump etc

i used GM bolts for the bottom end, about 150 or so, then oil pan, front, rear covers, valley cover, front and rear seals were all about 110 together, all from GM, also used GM replacemnt lifters from gmpartsdirect.com for 125 to my door. i am going to use arp head studs, and a GM MLS head gasket. only reason why i spent an extra 200 bucks on arp head studs is that im going to eventualy replace the heads on it, and then also im going to spray a big shot.. so idk how often ill be replacing headgaskets

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iTrader: (3)

The bolts backed out of the timing gear on the cam. The cam then slid back far enough that it looks like the lifters were starting to fall off the lobes of the cam. That's why there's all the damage on those lobes. I'm assuming that's how the bearings got so hosed as well.

In any case, I'm still not sure what it is I want to do. I'll post up with progress updates.

bichin95redta

Glad to help. Whenever I have a question about something I don't know, I come to this site 1st. There's an amazing amount of knowledge/experience on this board. If I can't find what I'm after on LS1TECH, it's tough finding another source of trusted information.

My "project" started out as a fairly conservative heads/cam/intake job. While tearing down the engine, we found the front cam bearing was wiped. I didn't want to chance sliding a $400.00 cam into a bore that could have bad bearings, so I tore the engine down to the bare block. About the only good thing that came of that, was that I discovered I had an LS6 block. Anyway, I found all 8 rod bearings, all 5 main bearings, and every crank journal scored. All 5 cam bearings were wiped, too.

One of the guys in my F-Body car club said, "Well, if you ever had any ideas about doing something wild with the engine, now's the time to do it."

Five large later, and I'm still not finished...but I have learned a lot ripping into the engine.

marv

iTrader: (40)

Gauge you might want to check out GM High Tech Performance's website. In the last three issues, they've done a complete motor build (it's a stroker, but very similar) and have included a lot of great info on parts, tools and techniques.

You can probably see all of it on the web, or you could always order back issues.

bichin95redta

There are also 2 VERY GOOD LS1/LS6 tech books in print. I'd HIGHLY recommend both of them if you're going to do any serious messing around with your engine:

Chevy LS1/LS6 Performance
Christopher P. Endres
HPBooks
ISBN 1-55788-407-2
I paid $18.95


How to Build High-Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8s
Modifying and Tuning Gen III Engines for GM Cars & Pickups
Will Handzel
CARTECH Books
ISBN 1-884089-84-4
around the same price

Both books are outstanding. The 2nd one was especially useful to me, as it details in text & photos, how to drop an LS1 engine & tranny out the bottom of an F-Body. As far as I know, these two books are the LS1/LS6 engine, and F-body "bibles" for us weekend warriors.

And, as Marv said, GM High Tech is the best periodical on the planet when it comes to LS-series equipped ('Vettes, F-bods, GTO's) vehicles. I have a subscription, and find myself constantly thumbing through them. Besides the good tech articles, the magazines are loaded with LS-series engine aftermarket web sites and ads.