turbo or heads and cam?
10-17-2006, 03:18 PM
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turbo or heads and cam? Hi i just got a 4th gen Ls1 T/A and its bone stock 60k miles. I was going to ask you guys how much is it for a decent/good turbo kit and how much does it run about.. to get it installed cause i dunno how. Or would i be better off going with some kind of heads and cam package? and if i go turbo am i going to be needing some supporting mods and what are they if so? Im not looking to make insane power but i just want a good street machine that can get up u know what i mean... some1 plz help...
10-17-2006, 03:31 PM
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I would say boost it and get the turbo!!! only thing you would really need is 40#+ injectors, bigger fuel pump, better clutch, and a good tune for say 5-7psi. If your mod car is a daily driver, then getting a turbo is even better, helps with gas mileage vs the gas guzzling head/cam package. A good diesant Turbo kit will run you about 4-7k.
- James
- James
10-17-2006, 05:44 PM
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with 5-7 psi your lookin around 380-420, maybe a lil bit more at the wheels (depending on what supporting mods you have).
labor would prob be 1500-2k for the turbo kit install, just depends on who you ahe around you.
Where are you located?
labor would prob be 1500-2k for the turbo kit install, just depends on who you ahe around you.
Where are you located?
10-17-2006, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Frost
don't look for a turbo setup to be under $12K complete...
I planned on installing the kit myself, but my friend who works at a shop said they charge by the hour, and he charges $40 per hour. Sts claims that the kit only takes 8 hours to install, so do the math and thats like $320 + their breaks and taking their sweet old time and you could be looking at $500+ for a cheap install.
Last edited by Unlimited; 10-17-2006 at 07:27 PM.
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10-17-2006, 07:56 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Unlimited
Sts kit complete can get you boosted for under 6k(with the intercooler) and everything you need. Exact setup that I'm running if you go with trtturbos.com. A good tune will cost ya around $500-1000.
I planned on installing the kit myself, but my friend who works at a shop said they charge by the hour, and he charges $40 per hour. Sts claims that the kit only takes 8 hours to install, so do the math and thats like $320 + their breaks and taking their sweet old time and you could be looking at $500+ for a cheap install.
I planned on installing the kit myself, but my friend who works at a shop said they charge by the hour, and he charges $40 per hour. Sts claims that the kit only takes 8 hours to install, so do the math and thats like $320 + their breaks and taking their sweet old time and you could be looking at $500+ for a cheap install.
Don't forget: wideband, fuel pres. guage, fuel system mods (!), suspension mods, clutch (or tranny, ouch if A4), ....and sooner or later a 12 bolt or 9" rear.
10-17-2006, 10:20 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Frost
Don't forget: wideband, fuel pres. guage, fuel system mods (!), suspension mods, clutch (or tranny, ouch if A4), ....and sooner or later a 12 bolt or 9" rear.
H/C will yeild more power....
I went with turbo on my lt1.... but i jsut plan on the thing grenanding.. lol
10-17-2006, 11:39 PM
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^^^^if you wanna do it the right way the number FROST put up is a good number, but i think you hsould start from the ground up, (suspension, rear end, tranny, then motor)
10-17-2006, 11:44 PM
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I would stay away from turbo unless you plan on spending big money. Yes, you could run a turbo kit at 5-7 psi, and be happy for a while. But then you'll think it's time to up the boost, and that's where the fun begins. Bigger turbo, more fuel, more suspension, more everything. It's fun as hell, but it is addictive. I love my setup, but I also didn't mind spending the dough. Good luck.
10-18-2006, 09:54 PM
#17
for 24K you better have an 8 turbo combo and an assistant that fallows you around.
I hope your talking about the price of the car also. Otherwise someone took you through the ringer hard core. Even 12K is up there, figure what? $3-4k in parts the rest in labor? Thats crazy.
Go heads and cam. Not knowing how to do anything it will cost you a few arms and legs. Shops will rape you on labor.
I hope your talking about the price of the car also. Otherwise someone took you through the ringer hard core. Even 12K is up there, figure what? $3-4k in parts the rest in labor? Thats crazy.
Go heads and cam. Not knowing how to do anything it will cost you a few arms and legs. Shops will rape you on labor.
10-19-2006, 12:01 PM
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Turbo COMPRESSOR SECTION: The compressor section is identical in function to any centrifugal supercharger, the only difference is that the turbine section of the turbo drives it. One thing to know is that turbocharger compressor sections are (generally) significantly smaller than their supercharger cousins. This all has to do with efficiency and the chosen method of powering the compressor, so just know it's the reason why you see turbochargers spinning such high RPM when compared to their centrifugal supercharger cousins. It's all about necessity.
TURBINE SECTION: This section bears a strong resemblance to the compressor section for a reason; it basically functions the same but backwards. The two main parts are the turbine housing and turbine wheel, and if this is an internally wastegated turbo, the wastegate also resides here (there will be more on that later). As exhaust gasses quickly move out of the cylinder and into the exhaust manifold, they are routed into the turbine housing's scroll. If you understood the flow of air through the centrifugal compressor design discussed earlier, here it's just the opposite occurring. As the hot and rapidly moving gasses attempt to find an airflow path through the turbine housing (with the ever decreasing scroll area), they come in contact with the turbine wheel on their way to the center outlet of the housing. As they rush through this airflow path and into the exhaust downpipe, they spin the turbine wheel, imparting a portion of their kinetic energy to the turbocharger. Especially notice that with this design comes variable RPM, the turbocharger itself is not physically strapped to any rotating part of the engine. This makes many different turbo shaft speeds possible at a single engine RPM, which is where the system's basic performance characteristics and tunability are born.
CENTER SECTION: The center section is definitely the most complex of the three portions. This is what connects both the compressor and turbine sections, and where all of the cooling and lubrication of the unit occurs. Inside the center section is the main shaft, which is what the compressor and turbine wheels are directly connected to. This main shaft undergoes a great deal of pressure, RPM and heat, so the center section is unsurprisingly very specifically engineered to deal with these. The most common and basic center sections use what's called thrust bearings to keep the shaft spinning, and oil flow from the engine to both lubricate and cool the unit. Two common updates to this proven design are becoming more affordable and widespread; ball bearing center sections and water cooling in addition to oil. The ball bearing center is both more durable and more efficient at transmitting power to the compressor wheel, making it better for performance and turbo life. The water cooling is more for reliability than anything else, helping to stabilize temperatures and prevent oil coking in the housing. Both are worthwhile additions to your turbo purchase if at all possible.
TURBO KIT BASICS: Although I say "basic" here, know that this is pretty much an oxymoron when dealing with turbos. There is nothing basic about a turbo system, as many different things concerning engine operation need to be addressed. The basic turbo system should come with a bunch of different things, and few systems effectively address all these unless your car was originally equipped with the system. Here they are, in no particular order (with the little things like vacuum line omitted), and notice I left out engine management from the list, because I want to deal with that separately:
1- turbo
2- exhaust manifold for turbo
3- wastegate
4- blow-off valve (aka bypass valve)
5- lines for oil supply and return
6- intercooler (optional)
TURBOCHARGER: We've already gone through the basic explanation, but one more thing bears mention here. Ever hear the TA49, PT51, T3/T4, T04e turbo designations? Well, these refer to the size and basic flow potential of the turbocharger. Garret and other manufacturers created turbo families, ones in which all members prescribed to certain physical characteristics. A T3 compressor section is one that prescribes to a specific characteristic set, such as overall size and design features. Generally speaking, larger numbers and higher letters mean a larger (and sometimes newer) family of turbos, meaning a potential increase in flow ability, power production and possibly even efficiency. The T3/T4 designation is an example of a hybrid turbo; one where a T3 turbine section has been mated to a T4 compressor section. This popular hybrid attempts to combine the excellent low RPM spool characteristics of the smaller T3 class turbo with the big flow potential of a sizable T4 compressor. Really it's a "best of both worlds" attempt, which seems to be very successful on smaller displacement, high RPM engines. Now there are a few other considerations to turbo sizing, such as A/R ratio and wheel trim, but I won't go into those unless someone really needs to know everything. The point here is simply to get a basic feel for turbo function and sizing, as the experts who designed the turbo kit or upgrade likely have already made an excellent choice in turbo size for your specific application.
TURBINE SECTION: This section bears a strong resemblance to the compressor section for a reason; it basically functions the same but backwards. The two main parts are the turbine housing and turbine wheel, and if this is an internally wastegated turbo, the wastegate also resides here (there will be more on that later). As exhaust gasses quickly move out of the cylinder and into the exhaust manifold, they are routed into the turbine housing's scroll. If you understood the flow of air through the centrifugal compressor design discussed earlier, here it's just the opposite occurring. As the hot and rapidly moving gasses attempt to find an airflow path through the turbine housing (with the ever decreasing scroll area), they come in contact with the turbine wheel on their way to the center outlet of the housing. As they rush through this airflow path and into the exhaust downpipe, they spin the turbine wheel, imparting a portion of their kinetic energy to the turbocharger. Especially notice that with this design comes variable RPM, the turbocharger itself is not physically strapped to any rotating part of the engine. This makes many different turbo shaft speeds possible at a single engine RPM, which is where the system's basic performance characteristics and tunability are born.
CENTER SECTION: The center section is definitely the most complex of the three portions. This is what connects both the compressor and turbine sections, and where all of the cooling and lubrication of the unit occurs. Inside the center section is the main shaft, which is what the compressor and turbine wheels are directly connected to. This main shaft undergoes a great deal of pressure, RPM and heat, so the center section is unsurprisingly very specifically engineered to deal with these. The most common and basic center sections use what's called thrust bearings to keep the shaft spinning, and oil flow from the engine to both lubricate and cool the unit. Two common updates to this proven design are becoming more affordable and widespread; ball bearing center sections and water cooling in addition to oil. The ball bearing center is both more durable and more efficient at transmitting power to the compressor wheel, making it better for performance and turbo life. The water cooling is more for reliability than anything else, helping to stabilize temperatures and prevent oil coking in the housing. Both are worthwhile additions to your turbo purchase if at all possible.
TURBO KIT BASICS: Although I say "basic" here, know that this is pretty much an oxymoron when dealing with turbos. There is nothing basic about a turbo system, as many different things concerning engine operation need to be addressed. The basic turbo system should come with a bunch of different things, and few systems effectively address all these unless your car was originally equipped with the system. Here they are, in no particular order (with the little things like vacuum line omitted), and notice I left out engine management from the list, because I want to deal with that separately:
1- turbo
2- exhaust manifold for turbo
3- wastegate
4- blow-off valve (aka bypass valve)
5- lines for oil supply and return
6- intercooler (optional)
TURBOCHARGER: We've already gone through the basic explanation, but one more thing bears mention here. Ever hear the TA49, PT51, T3/T4, T04e turbo designations? Well, these refer to the size and basic flow potential of the turbocharger. Garret and other manufacturers created turbo families, ones in which all members prescribed to certain physical characteristics. A T3 compressor section is one that prescribes to a specific characteristic set, such as overall size and design features. Generally speaking, larger numbers and higher letters mean a larger (and sometimes newer) family of turbos, meaning a potential increase in flow ability, power production and possibly even efficiency. The T3/T4 designation is an example of a hybrid turbo; one where a T3 turbine section has been mated to a T4 compressor section. This popular hybrid attempts to combine the excellent low RPM spool characteristics of the smaller T3 class turbo with the big flow potential of a sizable T4 compressor. Really it's a "best of both worlds" attempt, which seems to be very successful on smaller displacement, high RPM engines. Now there are a few other considerations to turbo sizing, such as A/R ratio and wheel trim, but I won't go into those unless someone really needs to know everything. The point here is simply to get a basic feel for turbo function and sizing, as the experts who designed the turbo kit or upgrade likely have already made an excellent choice in turbo size for your specific application.
10-19-2006, 01:38 PM
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if you factor in all the bolt ons and heads/cam its not that big of a difference for just the kit.
figure for afr heads and a good cam with all he gaskets, figure 3 grand. another grand for full exhaust, 100ish for intake, 100 ish for ported tb, or about 1300 for a 90/90 ported combo your looking at a 5 grand for a true heads/cam setup, not counting gears or a stall. tuning is a moot point because its going to cost you with both setups
figure for afr heads and a good cam with all he gaskets, figure 3 grand. another grand for full exhaust, 100ish for intake, 100 ish for ported tb, or about 1300 for a 90/90 ported combo your looking at a 5 grand for a true heads/cam setup, not counting gears or a stall. tuning is a moot point because its going to cost you with both setups
10-19-2006, 04:10 PM
#20
Originally Posted by pwrtrip75
for 24K you better have an 8 turbo combo and an assistant that fallows you around.
I hope your talking about the price of the car also. Otherwise someone took you through the ringer hard core. Even 12K is up there, figure what? $3-4k in parts the rest in labor? Thats crazy.
Go heads and cam. Not knowing how to do anything it will cost you a few arms and legs. Shops will rape you on labor.
I hope your talking about the price of the car also. Otherwise someone took you through the ringer hard core. Even 12K is up there, figure what? $3-4k in parts the rest in labor? Thats crazy.
Go heads and cam. Not knowing how to do anything it will cost you a few arms and legs. Shops will rape you on labor.