Ram Effect Intake Tuning question
10-18-2006, 08:40 PM
#1
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Ram Effect Intake Tuning question Has anyone been able to manufacture a tunable intake for an lsx engine. Just looking to get all out of it and after reading on sonic tuning Im wondering what intake valve events the truck/ls1/ls6/fast/weiand etc... intakes are tuned for. Why dont manufacturers list this information? Why havent I heard someone say the ls6 intake is meant for a cam where I open the Intake valve here and Im gonna get the third traversal for optimum results at X rpm?
Last edited by 02sierraz71_5.3; 10-18-2006 at 09:08 PM.
10-19-2006, 08:26 AM
#2
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Lets try this:
Water hammer
As an example of unsteady flow in a closed conduit, the phenomenon know as water hammer, due to sudden stoppage of flow, is briefly considered. When a valve is rapidly closed at the downstream end of a long pipe carrying a liquid, the liquid comes to rest progressively due to a pressure wave in the system. The pressure wave moves upstream from the valve with the velocity of sound. Bringing the moving liquid to rest requires a pressure increase at the valve. The Pressure increase causes a compression of the liquid and an expansion of the pipe walls, storing additional energy in both. When the pressure wave reaches the upstream end of the pipe, all liquid is at rest, but the pressure intensity is everywhere increased. Immediately after the pressure wave reaches the upstream end, a negative pressure wave starts downstream and the fluid flows upstream slightly, resulting in a lower-than-normal pressure at the valve. The liquid then starts moving downstream again, and this cycle is repeated with diminishing pressure changes until the effects of fluid friction and imperfect elasticity of pipe walls have absorbed the original kinetic energy of the flowing fluid.
How can I take advantage of this effect with a composite lsx intake?
Does the composite material make a difference?
I know there are several other effects to consider when tuning the intake which is more important?
Water hammer
As an example of unsteady flow in a closed conduit, the phenomenon know as water hammer, due to sudden stoppage of flow, is briefly considered. When a valve is rapidly closed at the downstream end of a long pipe carrying a liquid, the liquid comes to rest progressively due to a pressure wave in the system. The pressure wave moves upstream from the valve with the velocity of sound. Bringing the moving liquid to rest requires a pressure increase at the valve. The Pressure increase causes a compression of the liquid and an expansion of the pipe walls, storing additional energy in both. When the pressure wave reaches the upstream end of the pipe, all liquid is at rest, but the pressure intensity is everywhere increased. Immediately after the pressure wave reaches the upstream end, a negative pressure wave starts downstream and the fluid flows upstream slightly, resulting in a lower-than-normal pressure at the valve. The liquid then starts moving downstream again, and this cycle is repeated with diminishing pressure changes until the effects of fluid friction and imperfect elasticity of pipe walls have absorbed the original kinetic energy of the flowing fluid.
How can I take advantage of this effect with a composite lsx intake?
Does the composite material make a difference?
I know there are several other effects to consider when tuning the intake which is more important?
10-19-2006, 09:26 AM
#3
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Deja vu. This was covered fairly well in some forum in the last year or so...but I'm too old to recall which one.
I think looking at intake tuning with a compressible fluid rather than an incompressible fluid (liquid) may give better results.
Try this book:
Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip Smith.
I suppose one could measure the intake tract length on various LS series engines, and calculate what rpm or rpm range in which they might work well. 5.0 litre versions of the LS1 are used in Daytona Prototypes. I noticed at a recent race that where before they were using the LS6 intake, they are now using the (ugly) truck intake. They are not allowed to modify the intake. My conclusion is there is more power or average power in the truck manifold for that particular application. Interesting, huh?
My $.02
I think looking at intake tuning with a compressible fluid rather than an incompressible fluid (liquid) may give better results.
Try this book:
Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip Smith.
I suppose one could measure the intake tract length on various LS series engines, and calculate what rpm or rpm range in which they might work well. 5.0 litre versions of the LS1 are used in Daytona Prototypes. I noticed at a recent race that where before they were using the LS6 intake, they are now using the (ugly) truck intake. They are not allowed to modify the intake. My conclusion is there is more power or average power in the truck manifold for that particular application. Interesting, huh?
My $.02
10-19-2006, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Old SStroker
Deja vu. This was covered fairly well in some forum in the last year or so...but I'm too old to recall which one.
I think looking at intake tuning with a compressible fluid rather than an incompressible fluid (liquid) may give better results.
Try this book:
Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip Smith.
I suppose one could measure the intake tract length on various LS series engines, and calculate what rpm or rpm range in which they might work well. 5.0 litre versions of the LS1 are used in Daytona Prototypes. I noticed at a recent race that where before they were using the LS6 intake, they are now using the (ugly) truck intake. They are not allowed to modify the intake. My conclusion is there is more power or average power in the truck manifold for that particular application. Interesting, huh?
My $.02
I think looking at intake tuning with a compressible fluid rather than an incompressible fluid (liquid) may give better results.
Try this book:
Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip Smith.
I suppose one could measure the intake tract length on various LS series engines, and calculate what rpm or rpm range in which they might work well. 5.0 litre versions of the LS1 are used in Daytona Prototypes. I noticed at a recent race that where before they were using the LS6 intake, they are now using the (ugly) truck intake. They are not allowed to modify the intake. My conclusion is there is more power or average power in the truck manifold for that particular application. Interesting, huh?
My $.02
http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...r=asc&start=45
this is what got me:
Madbill:"I find the discussion about water hammer effects to be irrelevant for one big reason: In a properly specced race engine at its designed optimum RPM, there will be no inertia-induced 'pile up' of air against the closed valve because the valve should not be closed until all forward flow has ceased. (in fact, optimum IVC timing is often such that a small amount of reversion occurs) "
But then how many on here have the funds/knowhow to really build an engine like that. So the next best is too make up for lacking areas with other things.
Ive got all these questions like how do I know when the cylinder is full?
Basic stuff like that would need to be answered first but Ive never heard anyone ask them.
10-19-2006, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Old SStroker
Deja vu. This was covered fairly well in some forum in the last year or so...but I'm too old to recall which one.
I think looking at intake tuning with a compressible fluid rather than an incompressible fluid (liquid) may give better results.
Try this book:
Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip Smith.
I suppose one could measure the intake tract length on various LS series engines, and calculate what rpm or rpm range in which they might work well. 5.0 litre versions of the LS1 are used in Daytona Prototypes. I noticed at a recent race that where before they were using the LS6 intake, they are now using the (ugly) truck intake. They are not allowed to modify the intake. My conclusion is there is more power or average power in the truck manifold for that particular application. Interesting, huh?
My $.02
I think looking at intake tuning with a compressible fluid rather than an incompressible fluid (liquid) may give better results.
Try this book:
Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems by Phillip Smith.
I suppose one could measure the intake tract length on various LS series engines, and calculate what rpm or rpm range in which they might work well. 5.0 litre versions of the LS1 are used in Daytona Prototypes. I noticed at a recent race that where before they were using the LS6 intake, they are now using the (ugly) truck intake. They are not allowed to modify the intake. My conclusion is there is more power or average power in the truck manifold for that particular application. Interesting, huh?
My $.02
