TurboGoat

Sell a kit that is not already made and ready to ship?

SuperZ

iTrader: (2)

I have no idea.Thats why there are so many kits out there by out of buisness companies

StoleIt

iTrader: (3)

Probably to offset the huge cost of r&d, employee fees, building/heat/power bills, etc.

Assassin

iTrader: (3)

made to order..., its a bitch to duplicate, cost waay too much to just have them sitting, and the profit margin is minimal at best.... these days w/price wars your just paying for the time and materials for hot and cold pipes...

KraZy

iTrader: (4)

I cant get one to send parts when promised and another one wont even return PMs.

I'm glad I threw mine together myself, welds might look like chit but atleast its running.

If I had to have someone do the kit, I would drop it off somewhere like Speed Inc or Stenod.

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

Economics 101 - too much tied up cash capital

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

If they can do EVERYTHING themselves its cheap, but when they have to start sending stuff out to get coated, welded, bent... adds up fast, and to have that much money sitting on the shelf waiting isnt worth it.

1320

iTrader: (6)

For me its time. I make virtually everything but I dont have the time. I have cars waiting....for long periods of time. Ive got more c5's waiting then I even care to count, and some will go somewhere else, thats the way it is. For f bodies there just isn t a decent return compared to the other cars, like vettes, vipers, ctsv's custom race set up s etc. As time goes on more and more people prefer to buy there speed, so the people that make them fast can pick and choose alittle. I turn away many jobs now that I just dont want to do. If I fnd it interesting then Ill put it in line.

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

As arrogant as that sounds, why take jobs/orders you can't finish/aren't willing to take? I agree 100%

sb427f-car

That's why it's more beneficial to almost buy the welder and learn how to weld...

kp

iTrader: (34)

Because it a lot easier to buy a shop with a big parking lot to store customers cars, take 50% deposits for 15 cars and argue with customers every day from your couch watching oprah then it is to do the actual work lol. Heck with the internet you dont even need the parking lot anymore - a garage and PC will do just fine..

Seriously there is little profit margin on 'kits.' Most DIY guys are fairly clueless and will always blame the 'kit' before themself if something doesnt work or fit right so the hassle factor goes way up. Then of course everyone wants a kit that will keep AC, power steering, all emissions, not overheat on a 150 degree day without relocating the radiator, bolt right on using an adjustable wrench and a screwdriver as the only tools, have flawless MILSPEC welds and be guaranteed never to crack rust or tarnish plus make 1000rwhp on a stock long block - all for 5500.00 plus you have to have 10 in stock at all times... not an easy task

Speed

iTrader: (33)

Speaking from experience, the above is exactly why. Most turbo companies don't have the capital to build an inventory before hand. They are normally one off shops or individuals who come up with what they believe is a good kit and convince others of that by publishing results from their prototype systems (often kits they have built on their own cars). They couldn't exactly take preorders because they likely don't have the funds to fill the orders before the end users pony up the coin for the kits. Thus they become the middle men between the customers and the suppliers that are reproducing the parts for them.

People complain constantly about the cost of aftermarket parts (rightfully so sometimes) so companies offer a lower price in exchange for the customer assuming some of the risk of buying an as yet unmade product. By the time the whole thing goes to **** and the customer holds the original kit maker to the fire, the money has been spent and the maker is fighting tooth and nail with a suppliers that ultimately doesn't give a **** about their customer (the kit maker). They soon realize that as hard as they try, they can't make people happy and quit.

It not that they are dishonest (some might end up that way), the supplier delivers a line of bullshit with dates, prices and specs, kit makers relay this information taking the "reputable" supplier for their word, and promises get broken. So the customer ends up ripping the kit maker a new one in the public eye (well within their right to do so btw) while the kit maker, who is trying to make the best of the situation does what is in his power to deliver the product. The result of this process is the kit maker becomes "reputable".

There are a lot of industries that work on this model, home building being a prime example. And in all of those industries, you end up with a middle man who is trying to put his design on paper together for a custmer. It fails so often you can't hold a supplier to their word because you are stuck with them because your entire pricing structure is based on what you worked out with them. It sucks, and it's **** for everyone but for prices to remain somewhere close to reasonable for the average consumer, you have to acknowledge that you are trading cost for risk.

I'm not saying they customer has a responsibility to bear in that the purchase was an agreement to provide some product in exchange for some amount of money. But as a consumer, the customer should understand the model of the business and it's embedded risks before plopping down the coin. Are you willing to possibly wait an extended period for what could ultimately be a superior product and/or a superior price at the risk of never receiving value for your money? Kind of sounds like another pillar of our economy (the stock market) doesn't it. Being a little guy trying to bring out a kit is very much a no win situation for the kit builder in the long term unless they happen put together the God sent list of suppliers and nothing EVER changes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that turbo companies often get themselves in over their heads while trying to fullfill the best intentions to the customer. The fault can lay in a lot of differnet places. The responsibility lays on the kit builder who often has little in avenues of assistance to pass the responsibility to the source. I do all my kits on a one off basis that way I know that everything is within my realm of control. Before you plop down the coin, analyse the risks you are taking and the rewards of successful completion of the transaction. They should balance or you shouldn't buy.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I've drilled down this issue several times over the last couple years, and it does come down to poor planning and lack of capital. I don't think that folks do enough research into how the profitability will work, and they don't build in any flexibility into their timelines. So when something takes much longer, it makes the whole house of cards come apart.

1320

iTrader: (6)

Just for the record, my customers pay when the job is finished, I dont take any money before a job beggins. The customers I have waiting are just waiting not out any money at all, and Im the first one to tell them its gonna be awhile. I ve been building up to in stock parts and as hard as I try it has not happened yet, maybe early in 07 Ill have in stock systems, I hope anyways so I can put them up forsale instead of having potential customers waiting.

promod1955

iTrader: (44)

^^^^ thats a problem I have with a ton of people in my business. I spend $2500 just on hotside materials on 321 stainless tubing,burns collectors, header flanges,etc. everyone wants that quality and only wants to spend $5,500. Where did the whole it only cost $6,000 to turbocharge a car with the best materials available come from? very well put kp.

kp

iTrader: (34)

I wasnt singling anyone out, I have been there so I know whats its like to wake up in the morning with a lot full of cars and getting behind to the point where you are working for free 12 hours a day. Not a good feeling but I still finished everything - even the stuff that was way underquoted to 'get the job' when there was no backlog. Its just part of the industry overall. While business models and trends can predict success or faulure it all boils down to the people doing the work and how hard they are willing to work to keep a spotless reputation as opposed to throwing in the towel or turning to another source of good income and leaving their cutomers in the dust..

promod, I have no idea where th 6000.00 thing came from. Most likely to compete with the supercharger kits out there. But a supercharger is easier to package and while you have the belt issues you dont have to worry about hot exhaust pipes getting too close to anything, wastegates, BOVs plus sizing is a little more generic. Everyone wants the added power and 'benefits' of a turbo but no one wnats to pay the extra price for the materials and engineering involved..

promod1955

iTrader: (44)

correct kp. I dont even know how people compare the two in the same price range. whens the last time a supercharger came with all of the exhaust with it? theres way more parts that are hand fabricated that go with a turbo kit vs. a supercharger.

Back on topic, there not much more I can say then whats already been said.

HAMRHEAD

iTrader: (8)

I agree. People gotta realize how important patience is with a turbo build. Everyone wants to complain when something is delayed. That's life. These builders are at the mercy of suppliers and so on. I deal with Speed inc for my stuff and I always try to communicate to Tom that I don't care how long it is gonna take, I just want to know if they know anything. If it is gonna be 2,3, or 4 months more cause a supplier fell through on an agreement so be it. Just tell me.

Some builders have terrible communication with customers too and that causes problems and the customer starts bad mouthing the builder. There are so many rip offs nowadays communication is key for piece of mind!

To have a quality kit sitting on the shelf isn't reality for most places I know of. To much depends on other sources plus it seems everyone wants something a little different with their kit. So now you would have extra parts from multiple kits laying around. I prefer to get it built and done right the first time. Hence why I went to Speed! For the customer sevice as well as the quality of work.

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

A local company is good at having its kits in stock for the mustang guys. Hellion Turbo Kits, ran by John Urist and Co. Tend to have em in stock. I think he worked up a deal with one of the major exhaust companies (magnaflow???) to bend and produce the pipes to keep the cost down and have them readily available...atleast that's what a read a while back...don't keep up much with the mustang stuff. Thats working smart not hard

RW99

You might alter the title to say, "Why don't FRONT MOUNT turbo companies..."

It seems like STS has done pretty well... they've stayed ahead of the game by avoiding the exhaust manifold altogether. I wonder how well they're doing, financially?